Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst Given Extension

[Prez]

I don’t think Jabari had the defensive instincts, awareness, IQ, focus, or motor, and frankly spacing awareness on offense either to ever be a legit top 2 or 3 guy on a title team. I don’t know that if he stayed healthy he would’ve just picked all that stuff up over time, even with better coaching. IMO if he stayed healthy he’d still always be more of a PPGz guy whose impact never matched the box score numbers and he’d likely get overpaid because of it.

‘22 was the year. If Khris was healthy that year I easily believe we close out Boston, but I’d also favor us against Miami who we swept the previous year and Golden State who were pretty small that year and got some weirdly bad Draymond stretches in the playoffs. Jrue was still awesome on defense and his awful offensive showings wouldn’t have been as bad with Khris around.

[Profound23]

Pretty much. Look at every past dynasty or "multiple titles" core and it almost always involved a bit of luck and circumstance in pairing the franchise guy with a top lottery pick (Worthy/Magic, Duncan/D-Rob, and obviously Jordan/Pippen). Jabari was supposed to be the Jamal Murray to Giannis' Jokic. Him wrecking his knees before his 22nd birthday really was the deathblow to any real dynastic run considering the perfectly aligned age of that core. Would have been fun to see a healthy, unimpeded development version of him with a good coach.

Too bad we didn't just draft Jokic. He could be the Robin to Giannis' Batman. Multiple titles ensue. We don't have to worry about Nugget fans lying about Joker being better than Giannis because they'd both be Bucks.

Then again, Horst probably trades Joker before we even know what we have.

[German Athens]

I don’t think Jabari had the defensive instincts, awareness, IQ, focus, or motor, and frankly spacing awareness on offense either to ever be a legit top 2 or 3 guy on a title team. I don’t know that if he stayed healthy he would’ve just picked all that stuff up over time, even with better coaching. IMO if he stayed healthy he’d still always be more of a PPGz guy whose impact never matched the box score numbers and he’d likely get overpaid because of it.

‘22 was the year. If Khris was healthy that year I easily believe we close out Boston, but I’d also favor us against Miami who we swept the previous year and Golden State who were pretty small that year and got some weirdly bad Draymond stretches in the playoffs. Jrue was still awesome on defense and his awful offensive showings wouldn’t have been as bad with Khris around.

I think the what if with Jabari isn’t just what he could have been on the floor to us, but, if the org felt as you and chones did, what we could have gotten back for him in a trade where he isn’t damaged goods.

I, for one, think a competent coach likely could have gotten a positive player out of Jabari by putting him in simpler situations defensively. Think Bobby in a zone, switching or hedging rather than in a drop.

Taking Bobby and making him explosive as hell and able to create space while facing the hoop, would be a positive player, and one that likely makes the difference in a few of the series where we’ve lost, imo.

Regardless, he’s the #2 pick in a good draft, who didn’t factor into our contention years, whether through play or asset acquisition. That’s tough to come back from.

[KidA24]

Pretty much. Look at every past dynasty or "multiple titles" core and it almost always involved a bit of luck and circumstance in pairing the franchise guy with a top lottery pick (Worthy/Magic, Duncan/D-Rob, and obviously Jordan/Pippen). Jabari was supposed to be the Jamal Murray to Giannis' Jokic. Him wrecking his knees before his 22nd birthday really was the deathblow to any real dynastic run considering the perfectly aligned age of that core. Would have been fun to see a healthy, unimpeded development version of him with a good coach.

Too bad we didn't just draft Jokic. He could be the Robin to Giannis' Batman. Multiple titles ensue. We don't have to worry about Nugget fans lying about Joker being better than Giannis because they'd both be Bucks.

Then again, Horst probably trades Joker before we even know what we have.

Had two shots at him.

[Bernman]

You can become a contender in random ways like the Bucks did (15th pick in a bad draft, trade throw-in), but you can't rely on that as a plan. The Thunder actually have a plan, that's worked twice in a row, & in a small market like ours. They didn't even luck into a #1 pick. Just a lot of 1st rd picks, many of them high, and prospects in trades. Quality of quantity. And stayed the course. Didn't sell off for vets before they were ready.

[Ron Swanson]

The defensive limitations probably prevent him from ever being a mega star, but dude's offensive potential was limitless and he was nowhere near the kind of selfish chucker that impact-capped guys like Julius Randle. By that 2016-17 season he was already a good catch and shoot guy (37% on threes and 43% from the corners on a 3rd of his attempts), and he was so good as an off-ball cutter that Nehm and Frank Madden coined the "Baseline Bari" nickname. Him and Giannis would have been a hell of a duo for a long time.

[German Athens]

You can become a contender in random ways like the Bucks did (15th pick in a bad draft, trade throw-in), but you can't rely on that as a plan. The Thunder actually have a plan, that's worked twice in a row, & in a small market like ours. They didn't even luck into a #1 pick. Just a lot of 1st rd picks, many of them high, and prospects in trades. Quality of quantity. And stayed the course. Didn't sell off for vets before they were ready.

Yeah, that’s because, over the last 15 years or so, we never did either of the two main things that the rising teams typically do:

1) deliberately be bad for a few seasons to acquire many high end prospects
2) sell off vets to acquire plenty of future 1sts

We had the Kohl and Hammond braintrust where we actively didn’t want to tank, and also didn’t want multiple 1sts for whatever reason, and then we had LED who wanting to “trust the results”.

We were unintentionally terrible in 2014 and got a high pick, but then immediately sought to be a competitive squad that next season. We traded Knight, but instead of acquiring a future asset, we decided a flawed “pg” was the better route.

Okc and philly have probably been the model for asset acquisition, but the irony there being we’ve won a title and neither of them have so far. Both of those orgs have had their own poor decisions that have hampered their ability to compete. (Okc getting cheap and not keeping the KD, Russ, Harden core together) and Philly absolutely burning assets post hinkie, not retaining Jimmy, etc.

[DingleJerry]

I don’t think Jabari had the defensive instincts, awareness, IQ, focus, or motor, and frankly spacing awareness on offense either to ever be a legit top 2 or 3 guy on a title team. I don’t know that if he stayed healthy he would’ve just picked all that stuff up over time, even with better coaching. IMO if he stayed healthy he’d still always be more of a PPGz guy whose impact never matched the box score numbers and he’d likely get overpaid because of it.

‘22 was the year. If Khris was healthy that year I easily believe we close out Boston, but I’d also favor us against Miami who we swept the previous year and Golden State who were pretty small that year and got some weirdly bad Draymond stretches in the playoffs. Jrue was still awesome on defense and his awful offensive showings wouldn’t have been as bad with Khris around.

And the Tor blown 2-0 lead. I still think that was their best overall team, can't believe they blew that one. But yea that and Bos in 22 were their chances for two titles. Of course, if they'd won the Tor year there's a huge butterfly effect to what moves get made, so who knows what happens afterwards. If I recall there was some clear issues popping up in '20 even before the stoppage/bubble.

Is what it is, at least they got the one

[Matches Malone]

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[BUCKnation]

Jabari in those clips looked like a mix of Banchero and Zion. I think we would have figured out a way to keep him playable if the offense continued to look like it did. He was still really good even after the 1st acl.

[Turk Nowitzki]

I'm not a doctor so what do I know but from everything that's been said that seems like a crazy fast return timeline.

[BroncoBuck]

I'm not a doctor so what do I know but from everything that's been said that seems like a crazy fast return timeline.

Sounds like the Bucks are trying to sell playoff tickets

[Bernman]

Yea, the Bucks try to maintain optimism with all these typically unrealistic injury timelines around the playoffs.

That said, for positive or negative, I heard behind the scenes the range is 1 to 6 months. 1 would put it at the middle of the 1st round. That still makes it very unlikely he'll return in the playoffs, but it's possible. This is not like a ligament injury. You don't have to adhere closely to the timeline in the prognosis. It's just whenever imaging shows it's gone. So they could keep checking & clear him way before 3 months, if fortunate.

Everyone should just expect he won't be back this season, and be pleasantly surprised in the oft-chance he is.

[jakecronus8]

Any reason why OKC wouldn’t make a play for Giannis? They have an absolute haul of picks they could use to get him. I guess they prob want to see how things pan out this year. But it could be like Durant joining the 2016 Warriors.

I dont think they have access to a singular main event asset it would take to get Giannis. Even in this thread, I think the assumption in any of these Giannis deals is you're getting blue chip asset like Flagg.

If OKC were to include Chet along with all those picks, maybe you have something. Even then with his injury history and body I don't think I'd make the deal.

[jakecronus8]

Considering Jabari is the worst defender I've ever seen who played in the NBA, the nostalgia is a little misplaced. Jabari on a max deal even without the injuries (especially in today's NBA) would've been a massive L and we'd have had endless threads debating unrealistic trades to ship his ass away for 3&D pieces.

[yannisk]

Jabari was a gifted offensive player but of the Michael Beasley type. Best case scenario was trading him before getting injured or after he successfully returned from the first injury

[M-C-G]

Erghhhh, resist. The. Urge. To. Comment. On. Jabari. Aaaarggggggghhhh

No comment.

[German Athens]

Guys at this point I’m just hoping to watch Giannis remind everybody who he is, and absolutely rag doll whoever we face.

Dame coming back would give us a chance against most anyone if Doc doesn’t completely get in his own way.

[pifhluk23]

Without injuries Jabari would have been an absolute menace offensively, especially with the way the league went. He would have easily been a 25ppg scorer on good efficiency, easily could have built around him and Giannis.

[steger_3434]

I think the bubble year bucks were the best team we had. They were steamrolling the regular season. I believe their point diff was a top 5 all time before the season ended. Then the world ended. When it restarted in the bubble it may as well have been a different season.


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