Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday - Trade done - Bucks 2022 to CLE unprotected

[coolhandluke121]

A couple years ago, Jrue was voted the most underrated player in the league by his peers. Khris and Lillard tied for second (Lillard was clearly a star but deserved even more respect according to his peers, which they were clearly right about). How about a 5/$178m extension for Jrue to match Khris? You're still paying near-max money for two fringe top-20 players in their best season, and fringe top 30 guys in an average year... but if it make Giannis happy, so be it!

That was way too much money for Khris then, would be way too much money for Jrue now...especially at his age.

They will have to pay them the market rate, and those guys always get max deals on the open market. The Bucks have to do it to keep their best players around Giannis. It sucks but it is what it is. If teams couldn't even rein in their ridiculous overpaying habits during the pandemic revenue crash, they're not going to to do it next year either. At least it's two guys who are consistently pretty darn valuable and not some Wiggins type trash.

The Bucks can match the open market salary but give the extra year to keep Jrue from exploring his options. Hopefully that's a handshake deal already in place, thus convincing Giannis to extend.

[crkone]

Jrue was 3rd in ISO PPP last season among players with over 100 ISO possessions.

IIRC Bled was pretty good, too, right?

Yes same PPP but with 40 less possessions.

[LuessiT]

A couple years ago, Jrue was voted the most underrated player in the league by his peers. Khris and Lillard tied for second (Lillard was clearly a star but deserved even more respect according to his peers, which they were clearly right about). How about a 5/$178m extension for Jrue to match Khris? You're still paying near-max money for two fringe top-20 players in their best season, and fringe top 30 guys in an average year... but if it make Giannis happy, so be it!

That was way too much money for Khris then, would be way too much money for Jrue now...especially at his age.

They will have to pay them the market rate, and those guys always get max deals on the open market. The Bucks have to do it to keep their best players around Giannis. It sucks but it is what it is. If teams couldn't even rein in their ridiculous overpaying habits during the pandemic revenue crash, they're not going to to do it next year either. At least it's two guys who are consistently pretty darn valuable and not some Wiggins type trash.

The Bucks can match the open market salary but give the extra year to keep Jrue from exploring his options. Hopefully that's a handshake deal already in place, thus convincing Giannis to extend.

Honestly the deal is fine for Jrue as it was for Middleton. The only thing that should be kept in mind though is that the contract gets worse over time and should be traded at an appropriate moment. We've missed that moment in the past on numerous occasions so we'll see.

[Chad34]

Jrue was 3rd in ISO PPP last season among players with over 100 ISO possessions.

IIRC Bled was pretty good, too, right?

Yes same PPP but with 40 less possessions.

The eye test tells me Holiday seems to have a better ability to finish in all situations, whether it's in the paint against the bigs or whatever. the majority of times bled drove against the bigs, you knew he was gonna get the crap blocked out of him 90 percent of the times, but he wasn't smart enough to recognize it.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

who gives a crap about how much a deal is worth if your playing for championships and a guy still has positive value on said deal. jrue and middleton on the open market with max deals would create a bidding war that involved 5-10 teams. i think we forget gordon hayward created a bidding war for crissakes. top 30 players have MASSIVE value regardless of contract

[emunney]

who gives a crap about how much a deal is worth if your playing for championships and a guy still has positive value on said deal. jrue and middleton on the open market with max deals would create a bidding war that involved 5-10 teams. i think we forget gordon hayward created a bidding war for crissakes. top 30 players have MASSIVE value regardless of contract

Turns out there are only 30 of them.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

A couple years ago, Jrue was voted the most underrated player in the league by his peers. Khris and Lillard tied for second (Lillard was clearly a star but deserved even more respect according to his peers, which they were clearly right about). How about a 5/$178m extension for Jrue to match Khris? You're still paying near-max money for two fringe top-20 players in their best season, and fringe top 30 guys in an average year... but if it make Giannis happy, so be it!

That was way too much money for Khris then, would be way too much money for Jrue now...especially at his age.

we could trade khris, with his contract, for more than we just acquired jrue for. we dont because hes worth even more to us. so how is it too much for khris? i just dont understand that?

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

who gives a crap about how much a deal is worth if your playing for championships and a guy still has positive value on said deal. jrue and middleton on the open market with max deals would create a bidding war that involved 5-10 teams. i think we forget gordon hayward created a bidding war for crissakes. top 30 players have MASSIVE value regardless of contract

Turns out there are only 30 of them.

and more importantly over the course of any season less than 5 even change teams with only 1-2 moving thru trade. its a really big deal when a guy like beal gets floated. jrue and middleton are on that tier. it would be nuts the offers we would get if we were to go the rebuild route

[crkone]

IIRC Bled was pretty good, too, right?

Yes same PPP but with 40 less possessions.

The eye test tells me Holiday seems to have a better ability to finish in all situations, whether it's in the paint against the bigs or whatever. the majority of times bled drove against the bigs, you knew he was gonna get the crap blocked out of him 90 percent of the times, but he wasn't smart enough to recognize it.

Holiday attempted two more shots a game at the rim but shot 59% compared to 66% for Bledsoe. Jrue attempted about 1 more shot a game in the paint (non restricted area) then Bledsoe at about a 6% better clip.

[RiotPunch]

He’s so damn good. Been watching a lot of him the past couple days and it’s surreal he’s on the Bucks. Unbelievably good defensively and so crafty offensively. Easily the best trio in the East, and I don’t think 07 Timmy/Tony/Manu level is unreachable. Manu obviously better than Khris, but Giannis better than 07 Timmy and I’d take Jrue over Parker.

Mortgaging our future away still makes me uneasy, but gotta believe he and Giannis re-up. Jrue covering for Khris's pube outings will be such a welcome sight.

I sort of saw this coming as for most contending teams it is what they do these day, and probably are pleasing their current stars wishes and easing their jealousy by adding another star. Trades for Paul George, Anthony Davis, and now Jrue. This is the new norm to mortgage the future if you are a contender.

I'm certainly not against it for the right player. Hope Jrue proves to be worth it.

[Lippo]

IIRC Bled was pretty good, too, right?

Yes same PPP but with 40 less possessions.

The eye test tells me Holiday seems to have a better ability to finish in all situations, whether it's in the paint against the bigs or whatever. the majority of times bled drove against the bigs, you knew he was gonna get the crap blocked out of him 90 percent of the times, but he wasn't smart enough to recognize it.

And Bled was such a Linebacker that he could be thrown into the stands and didn't get the call do to his stature, Holiday is much longer, so the fouls on him will get more charity..

[Chad34]

Yes same PPP but with 40 less possessions.

The eye test tells me Holiday seems to have a better ability to finish in all situations, whether it's in the paint against the bigs or whatever. the majority of times bled drove against the bigs, you knew he was gonna get the crap blocked out of him 90 percent of the times, but he wasn't smart enough to recognize it.

Holiday attempted two more shots a game at the rim but shot 59% compared to 66% for Bledsoe. Jrue attempted about 1 more shot a game in the paint (non restricted area) then Bledsoe at about a 6% better clip.

My point is, from the eye test holiday looks much more versatile in the many ways he can finish compared to bled. It just used to drive me crazy when bled would drive into the paint against the bigs and you knew it was gonna be a turnover. Are fastbreaks considered iso or into the drives to the rim? If so I wonder if that’s where the difference favors bled. Seems like Holliday does more assisting on Fb’s

[LuessiT]

who gives a crap about how much a deal is worth if your playing for championships and a guy still has positive value on said deal. jrue and middleton on the open market with max deals would create a bidding war that involved 5-10 teams. i think we forget gordon hayward created a bidding war for crissakes. top 30 players have MASSIVE value regardless of contract

Are we paying for a championship though? That's only the goal. And a lot of teams have said goal. The issue with paying a top 30 player that kind of money is that we're facing teams with championship aspirations who pay similar money to top 10 players instead we're at an inherent disadvantage.
Now we have a top 3 player so the evaluation might change but imo we should have put ourselves in a better to pursue one of these via trade.

[thonnisbeastley]

A couple years ago, Jrue was voted the most underrated player in the league by his peers. Khris and Lillard tied for second (Lillard was clearly a star but deserved even more respect according to his peers, which they were clearly right about). How about a 5/$178m extension for Jrue to match Khris? You're still paying near-max money for two fringe top-20 players in their best season, and fringe top 30 guys in an average year... but if it make Giannis happy, so be it!

That was way too much money for Khris then, would be way too much money for Jrue now...especially at his age.

we could trade khris, with his contract, for more than we just acquired jrue for. we dont because hes worth even more to us. so how is it too much for khris? i just dont understand that?

Khris is not worth $35-40M a season, which is what he will be making in the last 3 years of the deal. He deserved the contract Jrue just had. Around $30M per, 5/150. We're going to be at the cap just by paying Jrue, Middleton, and Giannis - if Jrue/Giannis sign extensions.

I love Middleton and what he brings to the team. He is almost the perfect compliment to Giannis at the 2/3 spot. But he is not a perennial all-star/max level player. He benefits an insane amount from playing with Giannis. We had our first season of (insert Borat voice) great success, and we threw huge extensions at everyone except for Brogdon.

If we don't win the title this season, I think we will have to trade Khris for multiple win-now pieces if Giannis/Jrue extend.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

who gives a crap about how much a deal is worth if your playing for championships and a guy still has positive value on said deal. jrue and middleton on the open market with max deals would create a bidding war that involved 5-10 teams. i think we forget gordon hayward created a bidding war for crissakes. top 30 players have MASSIVE value regardless of contract

Are we paying for a championship though? That's only the goal. And a lot of teams have said goal. The issue with paying a top 30 player that kind of money is that we're facing teams with championship aspirations who pay similar money to top 10 players instead we're at an inherent disadvantage.
Now we have a top 3 player so the evaluation might change but imo we should have put ourselves in a better to pursue one of these via trade.

allnba 2019-2020

harden
AD
lebron
donkic
giannis

kawhi
joker
lillard
paul
siakam

tatum
butler
gobert
simmons
westbrook

-----------------------------

first of all....there are a couple guys on that list i wouldnt trade jrue OR middleton for. that says alot.

second....the guys i would trade for the issue isnt money or assets. we have the gunpowder to figure it out if a true top 10-15 guy becames available and wanted to be here. so first lets narrow the list to the 6-15 guys because the top 5 aint going nowhere. then which of the guys from 6-15 make sense? or is this top 10 talk more a pipedream?

practically, in retrospect, butler is maybe the guy we whiffed on. honestly the whole league sorta did. we could have had him. money wasnt the issue. it wasnt with paul either. or kawhi. or westbrook. or any of the guys that have moved. theres always a different hold up. its not money. if anything the more we pay jrue and middleton the easier the deals get.

[DingleJerry]

That is the market though. We can say what 'should' be and all that. But the reality is simply that the 2-3rd tier stars get overpaid due to the true true star guys being falsely suppressed. You can say it all you want how it's not right but that is the reality they're dealing with. Don't pay him that and you're left with no one instead. That said, I think they could've been shrewder to get closer to what the other teams max offer was instead of what our max offer was. But again, these players have the teams over a barrel, say no and some idiot other team is gonna give it to him. Just look at what Hayward from CHA and countless other examples.

[paulpressey25]

People always wonder how San Antonio was so good for so long. Easy. Tim Duncan always stayed with them, no questions asked, save for a brief free agent flirtation with Orlando in July of 2000.

Second most important thing is that somehow, someway, they were always able to keep Tony Parker and Manu off the free agent market. And they'd sign them to these long, team friendly deals. Had either of those guys broken out into free agency during a summer with a lot of money, one of them would have gotten the Middleton contract. And it would have messed up the whole thing.

[WRau1]

People always wonder how San Antonio was so good for so long. Easy. Tim Duncan always stayed with them, no questions asked, save for a brief free agent flirtation with Orlando in July of 2000.

Second most important thing is that somehow, someway, they were always able to keep Tony Parker and Manu off the free agent market. And they'd sign them to these long, team friendly deals. Had either of those guys broken out into free agency during a summer with a lot of money, one of them would have gotten the Middleton contract. And it would have messed up the whole thing.

Didn't Denver offer Manu a near max?

[Pachinko_]

Give him a piece of the real estate scheme downtown off the books.
Jrue starts a holding company in Luxembourg under his lawyers name, which makes a subsidiary in Cyprus, which makes triangular transactions with the owners for overpriced building materials from Shenzhen through a shelf company at the Caymans. By the time the NBA figures it out Giannis will be 90 years old.

[EastSideBucksFan]

People always wonder how San Antonio was so good for so long. Easy. Tim Duncan always stayed with them, no questions asked, save for a brief free agent flirtation with Orlando in July of 2000.

Second most important thing is that somehow, someway, they were always able to keep Tony Parker and Manu off the free agent market. And they'd sign them to these long, team friendly deals. Had either of those guys broken out into free agency during a summer with a lot of money, one of them would have gotten the Middleton contract. And it would have messed up the whole thing.

Cuban kept inking Dirk to undervalued contracts the last few years of his career.

He had to be taking care of him on the backend with an ownership point or some stock options.

Bucks owners need to get creative, but they don't appear to be able to pull off this stuff in the dark.