Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news, re-tool discussion

[Antinomy]

Game 6 vs. Suns, Giannis 17-19, win by 7
Game 5 vs. Heat, Giannis 10-23, lose by 2

I'm not pinning the loss solely on Giannis of course but making free throws, even going just 13-23, was an easy path to a win.

Go back and watch the variety of ways Giannis scored in that game compared to what he did this year and specifically against Miami too. I was always on Bud for not being my ideal playoff level coach but it must have been hard to try and build an offense around a guy who can't hit shots consistently outside of 3 feet.

I’ve been beating this drum for a while now.

Bud in ATL coached a high octane, ball movement offense with a bunch of passes.

One of our big issues is that our best player prefers to operate from places on the floor where he’s easier to guard.

[theFireBlanket]

Teague sounds like a clown in that video. Revoke his ring

Irving got injured in quarter 2 of game 4. And Teague claims Kyrie got hurt in game 3 (series turning point in which he played the entire game).

"Did we even win game 4?" Total clown, along with Kyrie out here guaranteeing the Nets win the series if he doesn't go down.

[emunney]

Teague sounds like a clown in that video. Revoke his ring

Irving got injured in quarter 2 of game 4. And Teague claims Kyrie got hurt in game 3 (series turning point in which he played the entire game). "Did we even win game 4?" Total clown along with, Kyrie out here guaranteeing the Nets win the series if he doesn't go down.

Guarantee if I'd been in the game I'd have dunked on Kyrie and farted

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Lopez is almost certainly gone with Bud ousted. His strength is the drop defense and the team is going to be moving away from that scheme. I’d be shocked if he re-signs here.

I mean everything is certainly more up in the air with Bud gone but I dont know what you could be basing Brook is "almost certainly gone" off of besides your own opinion.

Brook is a drop center. The biggest critique of Bud has been the drop defense. There is just no way they can rationalize a new coach coming in and running the drop defense. Why would it make any sense for either party to continue this relationship? Brook is coming off one of the best seasons of his career, he’s going to have drop system suitors that can sign him outright or complete a sign and trade. He’s been in a bad situation before where he no longer fit the scheme of his team. Again, I’d be shocked if he’s back next year.

On the flip, I heard rumors brolo hated his role on the offense. Maybe he is excited with some bully ball and pick n role offense with a new system offensively.

[raferfenix]

Could see us pushing to trade for an opted in FVV and extend him.

Especially if we’re hiring Nick Nurse.

The buzz surrounding the Toronto Raptors in NBA circles is that the franchise will go in a different direction this offseason with its roster. Nick Nurse is out as head coach. The team explored trades for most of its roster at the deadline, not to make deals but to gauge the market this summer.

But don't write off a VanVleet reunion entirely. The 29-year-old guard has a $22.8 million player option for 2023-24. Most around the league expect him to opt out to either re-sign with the Raptors or move on entirely.

VanVleet may be able to get Jalen Brunson-level dollars ($26 million per season), but his best path to a playoff contender could be to opt in and extend. Under the incoming rules, VanVleet can sign an extension in July as part of a trade with a starting salary for 2024-25 as high as $32 million. That would open the door to a longer list of teams like the Los Angeles Clippers, Phoenix Suns or Brooklyn Nets.

Otherwise, he may find viable suitors as an unrestricted free agent in the Jazz, Magic or Rockets. The Mavericks might have enough spending room without Christian Wood and Irving (and others, likely via trade or waiver).

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10074755-2023-nba-free-agency-best-available-guards-and-their-top-landing-spots

[Matches Malone]

FVV could be interesting. I wish we could go younger though, but it might not be an option for us with what's available. My only concern with trading with a team like Toronto is they likely will zap us of the rest of the youth on this roster (Marjon likely). Not that I'm not against moving anyone on the roster if it improves us, I just don't want to see us overcompensate with another abundance of players that are over-the-hill or close to it.

[Couch Potato]

Could see us pushing to trade for an opted in FVV and extend him.

Especially if we’re hiring Nick Nurse.

The buzz surrounding the Toronto Raptors in NBA circles is that the franchise will go in a different direction this offseason with its roster. Nick Nurse is out as head coach. The team explored trades for most of its roster at the deadline, not to make deals but to gauge the market this summer.

But don't write off a VanVleet reunion entirely. The 29-year-old guard has a $22.8 million player option for 2023-24. Most around the league expect him to opt out to either re-sign with the Raptors or move on entirely.

VanVleet may be able to get Jalen Brunson-level dollars ($26 million per season), but his best path to a playoff contender could be to opt in and extend. Under the incoming rules, VanVleet can sign an extension in July as part of a trade with a starting salary for 2024-25 as high as $32 million. That would open the door to a longer list of teams like the Los Angeles Clippers, Phoenix Suns or Brooklyn Nets.

Otherwise, he may find viable suitors as an unrestricted free agent in the Jazz, Magic or Rockets. The Mavericks might have enough spending room without Christian Wood and Irving (and others, likely via trade or waiver).

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10074755-2023-nba-free-agency-best-available-guards-and-their-top-landing-spots

What's our trade bait to get Fred? Bobby,Allen,PATC?

[JayMKE]

Not a fan of committing to VanVleet on the verge of 30 as a core piece to tune of $120M+. Sub 6 foot guard average athlete streaky shooter, no thanks. Think Terry Rozier is a better player.

[raferfenix]

Whether it’s the right move or not we know the Bucks seriously considered FVV at the deadline.

Stands to reason Rozier got a look too but it wasn’t publicly reported I don’t think.

[Daver]

Whether it’s the right move or not we know the Bucks seriously considered FVV at the deadline.

Stands to reason Rozier got a look too but it wasn’t publicly reported I don’t think.

I have read a couple articles that states a PG is horst #1 PRIORITY after lopez n midds

[MickeyDavis]

If next season doesn't work out for any reason Horst is gone.

[German Athens]

FVV would probably be the closest thing to giving us what Boston has with their guards, when coupled with Jrue, where they can all handle, playmake some, defend, and shoot to varying degrees of well.

It would be a nice addition, especially considering he’s a high iq dude who doesn’t turn the ball over.

With that said, if we traded for him, I’d be tempted to then trade Jrue and see what pieces we could get back, and maybe not have the goal of strictly looking for two-way guys.

I don’t think the sole addition of adding Fred helps our offense enough - our players still wouldn’t be capable enough from the perimeter to attack what the defense gives them. Maybe it would work, because in theory we would have enough dudes who require attention from the defense, but I think we’d likely still have long droughts. Fred is a capable ball handler and decision maker, but he’s kind of a 1 level scorer - super high volume from outside.

If we could add a player with enough quickness and at least two level shooting, from midrange and 3, that can capably set up and attack those looks, that may well open things up, and not make our offense always appear so hard. If that player could also play with pace in the pick and roll with Giannis, we’d be **** dangerous.

[Daver]

I mean everything is certainly more up in the air with Bud gone but I dont know what you could be basing Brook is "almost certainly gone" off of besides your own opinion.

Brook is a drop center. The biggest critique of Bud has been the drop defense. There is just no way they can rationalize a new coach coming in and running the drop defense. Why would it make any sense for either party to continue this relationship? Brook is coming off one of the best seasons of his career, he’s going to have drop system suitors that can sign him outright or complete a sign and trade. He’s been in a bad situation before where he no longer fit the scheme of his team. Again, I’d be shocked if he’s back next year.

On the flip, I heard rumors brolo hated his role on the offense. Maybe he is excited with some bully ball and pick n role offense with a new system offensively.

Heard that to on more thsn 1 occassion i wouldnt necessarily believe brook is gone maybe some players are happy he is gone maybe brook was one only cause now he might have a more prominent role in the O

[Daver]

FVV would probably be the closest thing to giving us what Boston has with their guards, when coupled with Jrue, where they can all handle, playmake some, defend, and shoot to varying degrees of well.

It would be a nice addition, especially considering he’s a high iq dude who doesn’t turn the ball over.

With that said, if we traded for him, I’d be tempted to then trade Jrue and see what pieces we could get back, and maybe not have the goal of strictly looking for two-way guys.

I don’t think the sole addition of adding Fred helps our offense enough - our players still wouldn’t be capable enough from the perimeter to attack what the defense gives them. Maybe it would work, because in theory we would have enough dudes who require attention from the defense, but I think we’d likely still have long droughts. Fred is a capable ball handler and decision maker, but he’s kind of a 1 level scorer - super high volume from outside.

If we could add a player with enough quickness and at least two level shooting, from midrange and 3, that can capably set up and attack those looks, that may well open things up, and not make our offense always appear so hard. If that player could also play with pace in the pick and roll with Giannis, we’d be **** dangerous.

Think if they get rozier or FVV jrue jumps to the 2 spot which is his natural position.Allen then comes off the bench.
No way they are trading jrue horst admitted awhile back thst jrue is a 2.
That would be one hell of a lineup
FVV OR ROZIER
HOLIDAY
MIDDS
GIANNIS
LOPEZ

[Couch Potato]

Not a fan of committing to VanVleet on the verge of 30 as a core piece to tune of $120M+. Sub 6 foot guard average athlete streaky shooter, no thanks. Think Terry Rozier is a better player.

I had Terry picked a while back many pages. Also only $20M. Wouldn't take all three bench players I mentioned above. I still like my other trade no one commented on. Bobby,Allen,PatC for Allen and Rubio,Merrill. We keep the core starters. Well Brook either stays but on the bench dirt cheap. Holiday moves up to SG. Rubio starting PG or Carter?. Allen starting Center. Rubio,Holiday,Middleton,Giannis,Allen. Fancy passes from Rubio. Allen a young center to run like a spaz like Giannis getting blocks. Yay or Nay?

[slos]

FVV looks like the ultimate buy low guy. He had a down year, wants to get paid and can walk without Toronto getting anything. I wouldn't offer more than Allen + Pat + 2024 POR SRP + 2027 SRP.

[machu46]

I'd probably rather target Tyus Jones than Rozier personally. Just never been a fan of Rozier's game really. I'd be very excited to have FVV; I do acknowledge the risk of him aging but I think he's a significant level above Rozier, Tyus, Grayson, etc.

[Milbucks96]

Tyus Jones isn’t a starter, too small. I ran to the grizzlies Reddit after they got bounced and it was a lot of comments about him disappearing every postseason. We need more postseason players and less regular season stars.

[Prez]

I wasn’t a Rozier guy but I’m so desperate to get someone, anyone on this team with legit speed/quickness off the dribble that I’m coming around a little bit on that. If we’re keeping the core 3, you could do worse than Rozier for your 4th guy offensively.

[slos]

One thing Horst needs to take care of is creating some salary slots for 2024. It's his next window to make a big move using three FRPs (2024/2029/2031) + 2028/2030 swaps. Pat and Bobby will be making 22 mil combined. You probably need another contract to match salaries. I could see Allen taking 1 year extension just for this reason.

Until then I think Horst will stick to Jrue/Midds/Giannis/Brook core and try again with Nurse. Sliding Beauchamp in the starting lineup should be something to consider. Nurse has been good in developing long athletic wings. MarJon has the tools. Give it a shot and if it doesn't work fix it in the deadline.

Jrue/MarJon/Midds/Giannis/Brook with Allen/Pat/Bobby coming from the bench and Nurse coaching would be my plan for 2023. Trade the bench and the picks in 2024 to bring a legit No2 for Giannis to keep his window open with Jrue/Midds/Brook only getting older.