Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season

emunney · Post #1181 » by **emunney** » Tue May 6, 2025 7:39 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
th87 wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:
We are totally screwed if Horst cannot start drafting well, regardless of GA staying or not.

The alternative to trading him for an absolute haul of young talent and/or picks this offseason is bringing him back, surrounding him with a far worse team than this past season, and likely the same horrid coach. I love GA more than any athlete in the history of my life, but trading him makes more sense than keeping him.

Obviously, if he wants to stay, you aren't moving him. I"m talking about what is better for the franchise long-term. If he stays and walks, we are literally looking at the longest rebuild in probably the history of the league.

Again, trading him now gives you the opportunity to become Orlando in 2-3 years - not a serious contender, which is not worth selling the best player/person who has ever walked through Milwaukee's doors. He deserves to be Dirk, Kobe. This is about what our grandkids will see - "Has Milwaukee ever had a star who stayed his whole career?" "Yeah, Giannis."

Legacy stuff. Bigger than basketball. Will be talked about forever.

Zero interest in giving that up for second round ceilings in 3 years.

What are you guys afraid of? Essentially you're giving up our legacy and current ceiling to reach a lower theoretical future ceiling because you don't want to be mediocre in the future.

Favre and Rodgers left, two all-timers who played for (by far) the most popular franchise in the state. Giannis leaving will sting, but **** happens. Legacy doesn't mean anything. It's a stupid thing for fans to get worked up over. The team is what matters.

Glad you've gotten on board with Giannis staying until his late 30s.

fansinceforever · Post #1182 » by **fansinceforever** » Tue May 6, 2025 7:40 pm

Giannis isn't omnipotent. It's a sad thought but eventually time will come for him too.

We already know we can't put anything worth a damn around him this season and likely the following season. Your '31 and '32 picks don't mean a whole lot in a league where GMs last 4-5 years.

Mapping out hypothetical situations is the whole point of a GM's job, especially for one in rebuild mode which is exactly where we are.

th87 · Post #1183 » by **th87** » Tue May 6, 2025 7:40 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
th87 wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:
We are totally screwed if Horst cannot start drafting well, regardless of GA staying or not.

The alternative to trading him for an absolute haul of young talent and/or picks this offseason is bringing him back, surrounding him with a far worse team than this past season, and likely the same horrid coach. I love GA more than any athlete in the history of my life, but trading him makes more sense than keeping him.

Obviously, if he wants to stay, you aren't moving him. I"m talking about what is better for the franchise long-term. If he stays and walks, we are literally looking at the longest rebuild in probably the history of the league.

Again, trading him now gives you the opportunity to become Orlando in 2-3 years - not a serious contender, which is not worth selling the best player/person who has ever walked through Milwaukee's doors. He deserves to be Dirk, Kobe. This is about what our grandkids will see - "Has Milwaukee ever had a star who stayed his whole career?" "Yeah, Giannis."

Legacy stuff. Bigger than basketball. Will be talked about forever.

Zero interest in giving that up for second round ceilings in 3 years.

What are you guys afraid of? Essentially you're giving up our legacy and current ceiling to reach a lower theoretical future ceiling because you don't want to be mediocre in the future.

Favre and Rodgers left, two all-timers who played for (by far) the most popular franchise in the state. Giannis leaving will sting, but **** happens. Legacy doesn't mean anything. It's a stupid thing for fans to get worked up over. The team is what matters.

The Packers are not the Bucks, and the NFL is not the NBA.

NFL draft hauls can easily turn a team into a real contender; not so in the NBA. The NFL is far less dependent on superstars, where a team solid at all positions can win a Super Bowl.

Favre and Rodgers meant a lot, but they were still part of a sea of Packers NFL HOFers, and more will follow.

For the Bucks? Basically Giannis leads the list. Kareem didn't like it here, Oscar was on the downswing of his career, Ray Allen isn't as good, and so on. Will the Bucks have any more HOFers for the foreseeable future? I'm not optimistic.

Legacy absolutely matters. When we're in our 80s in 2060 talking to the whippersnappers, we will definitely not remember the 2027 season, where Amen Thompson (or whoever) stole that 1 game against Boston in the second round.

We will remember how far Giannis took us.

Post #1184 » by **ReasonablySober** » Tue May 6, 2025 7:44 pm

th87 wrote:NFL draft hauls can easily turn a team into a real contender; not so in the NBA. The NFL is far less dependent on superstars, where a team solid at all positions can win a Super Bowl.

I know you know that what you just said is 100% wrong and backwards. Draft hauls mean a hell of a lot more in the NBA where one player can mean the difference between lottery and contention. The NFL requires years and years of draft stacking, free agent signings, and elite coaching. In the NBA you can draft a Giannis or Wemby or Joker and it'll mask years of bad decisions.

Post #1185 » by **MickeyDavis** » Tue May 6, 2025 7:45 pm

Favre and Rodgers were done pretty much done. Giannis just had arguably his best season.

Post #1186 » by **ReasonablySober** » Tue May 6, 2025 7:48 pm

th87 wrote:We will remember how far Giannis took us.

Yea, I'll always remember the 2021 season as well. I have two things hanging in my office. They're both right there:

Giannis moving on to another team doesn't take away from that memory.

Post #1187 » by **ReasonablySober** » Tue May 6, 2025 7:51 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:Favre and Rodgers were done pretty much done. Giannis just had arguably his best season.

Favre was coming offing off his best season in over a decade. He was SI.com's Sportsman of the Year. Rodgers was a year removed from back to back MVPs.

Frank Nova · Post #1188 » by **Frank Nova** » Tue May 6, 2025 7:51 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
Frank Nova wrote:What’s better for the team than 30/10/5 on historical efficiency and all pro defense year after year? I’m missing something there from ppl really advocating that trading Giannis is what’s best for the franchise. I like all the hypothetical situations where everyone is insanely confident that the best possible outcome is the only outcome possible. It’s rich stuff.

People aren't convinced that a tear down is the best possible outcome. They're convinced that keeping Giannis is a guaranteed terrible outcome. There is no possible way to contention by keeping Giannis. If trading away AJJ and all the Bucks' picks wasn't the nail in the coffin, then Lillard's injury was.

It's over. We're now in the late-stage era of the KG Wolves. An MVP caliber 30 year old doomed to a non-free agency destination of a organization without any assets. No one is arguing that it's going to be an easy rebuild with guaranteed success. It's just that it's the only option with at least some hope.

I think trading Giannis is the epitome of the grass isn’t always greener on the other side. It’s taken Minnesota 2 #1 picks, multiple years in the lottery and 17yrs of irrelevance to get to where they are now post KG. I just don’t see the hope and can’t agree that the right thing to do is move on from Giannis.

th87 · Post #1189 » by **th87** » Tue May 6, 2025 8:10 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
th87 wrote:NFL draft hauls can easily turn a team into a real contender; not so in the NBA. The NFL is far less dependent on superstars, where a team solid at all positions can win a Super Bowl.

I know you know that what you just said is 100% wrong and backwards. Draft hauls mean a hell of a lot more in the NBA where one player can mean the difference between lottery and contention. The NFL requires years and years of draft stacking, free agent signings, and elite coaching. In the NBA you can draft a Giannis or Wemby or Joker and it'll mask years of bad decisions.

Getting picks below 5 in the NBA historically means very little. Giannis and Joker were once in a generation lucky, so relying on that as your method of choice is a losing strategy. You're far more likely to end up with a team of Danny Grangers and Tobias Harrises.

In the NFL, impact players are everywhere. You can use the 3rd from Favre to trade up for Matthews. TJ Watts are available for low 1sts. Derrick Henrys and Bobby Wagners for 2nds. Diggs and Aaron Jones for even lower. A volume of picks matters a lot more and is a lot more impactful.

th87 · Post #1190 » by **th87** » Tue May 6, 2025 8:18 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
th87 wrote:We will remember how far Giannis took us.

Yea, I'll always remember the 2021 season as well. I have two things hanging in my office. They're both right there:

Giannis moving on to another team doesn't take away from that memory.

"Grandpops, why did the Bucks get rid of him in his prime?"

"Well, they couldn't pass up the chance to draft that next year's <insert Sam Dekker equivalent relevant to grandkid>. But they did give Halliburton a run for his money in one of the games in the late 20s!"

"? That seems dumb."

Post #1191 » by **ReasonablySober** » Tue May 6, 2025 8:25 pm

I'll tell them it was because the Bucks were a terribly run organization and the only way out was to rebuild. Not a hard discussion to have, unless you're having it with a bunch of fans who care about stuff like legacies of guys who make hundreds of millions of dollars.

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #1192 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Tue May 6, 2025 8:29 pm

the argument not to trade giannis because whats the point of a young team with a 2nd round ceiling is literally the craziest motive for not trading him i could ever imagine.

isnt a young team with a 2nd round ceiling like the perfect running start to the next chapter?

German Athens · Post #1193 » by **German Athens** » Tue May 6, 2025 8:30 pm

15 year NBA draft pick analysis.

#1 Pick

Spoiler:

#2 Pick

Spoiler:

#3 pick

Spoiler:

#4 Pick

Spoiler:

#5 Pick

Spoiler:

#6 Pick

Spoiler:

#7 Pick

Spoiler:

#8 Pick

Spoiler:

Takeaways

Some of this is hard to do, because we don’t know how good the most recent draft picks are going to be, but I wanted to include all the drafts, because I think you see flashes early like we did with Giannis.

You can certainly argue the order, but I don’t think the values of the guys below drastically change if you swap a couple dudes around.

Median pick
#1 KAT
#2 D’Angelo Russell
#3 RJ Barrett
#4 Deandre Hunter
#5 Ausar Thompson
#6 Benedict Mathurin
#7 Greg Monroe
#8 Terrence Ross

The #1 pick has far and away more value than the others (and KAT still isn’t a franchise player), but unless you are assured that’s the pick you are getting (2025 draft), then even getting “juicy” picks, that I see so often included in packages for Giannis, isn’t likely to net a franchise player.

I took the median, because we often get enamored with what a pick could be, rather than what it’s likeliest to be. I’d say you are no more likely to end up with a player better than each of the above than you are a worse player. It’s the mid point.

If you want to trade Giannis for anything other than a package that has Flagg in it, please comb through the player lists above.

Post #1194 » by **MickeyDavis** » Tue May 6, 2025 8:30 pm

Biggest thing people complain about (rightfully), botched pick after botched pick by Horst. So let's trade Giannis because MOOOOOOORE picks for Horst. And a player or two who who will never be in the same atmosphere as Giannis. Hell, I listed all of the botched lottery picks by this organization going back 30 years. Pass.

ETA, these are just lottery picks, we all know the other first round blunders.

Thon Maker
Jabari Parker
John Henson
Jimmer Fredette (traded)
Joe Alexander
Yi Jianlian
T.J. Ford
Marcus Haislip

Bernman · Post #1195 » by **Bernman** » Tue May 6, 2025 8:41 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:Biggest thing people complain about (rightfully), botched pick after botched pick by Horst. So let's trade Giannis because MOOOOOOORE picks for Horst. And a player or two who who will never be in the same atmosphere as Giannis. Hell, I listed all of the botched lottery picks by this organization going back 30 years. Pass.

ETA, these are just lottery picks, we all know the other first round blunders.

Thon Maker
Jabari Parker
John Henson
Jimmer Fredette (traded)
Joe Alexander
Yi Jianlian
T.J. Ford
Marcus Haislip

"Past incompetence justifies future incompetence"

Profound23 · Post #1196 » by **Profound23** » Tue May 6, 2025 8:46 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:Biggest thing people complain about (rightfully), botched pick after botched pick by Horst. So let's trade Giannis because MOOOOOOORE picks for Horst. And a player or two who who will never be in the same atmosphere as Giannis. Hell, I listed all of the botched lottery picks by this organization going back 30 years. Pass.

ETA, these are just lottery picks, we all know the other first round blunders.

Thon Maker
Jabari Parker
John Henson
Jimmer Fredette (traded)
Joe Alexander
Yi Jianlian
T.J. Ford
Marcus Haislip

We didn't say we wanted Horst re-signed

Debit One · Post #1197 » by **Debit One** » Tue May 6, 2025 8:53 pm

Matches Malone wrote:I'd be curious to know how Houston's front office views Giannis in comparison to Amen. If you were to gauge it from their fans perspective, they wouldn't even swap Amen for Giannis straight up. Guess they are still in that honeymoon overrate our young players phase with him still. He's got a chance to be very good, but a Giannis he is not and likely won't ever be.

I'm old enough to remember some Bucks fans claiming that they would rather have Brandon Jennings than Chris Paul.

It happens.

th87 · Post #1198 » by **th87** » Tue May 6, 2025 8:57 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:I'll tell them it was because the Bucks were a terribly run organization and the only way out was to rebuild. Not a hard discussion to have, unless you're having it with a bunch of fans who care about stuff like legacies of guys who make hundreds of millions of dollars.

Legacy, history, and memories are the only things that matter in the long run. Otherwise, we wouldn't keep records, videos, and trophy cases.

No one will care about the minutiae of an inconsequential season from the past. The biggest nerds don't remember the roster moves in 1993.

What do people know about Ted Stepien? No one knows any specific moves he made or even what he looked like, but they do know he was so bad they named a rule after him.

I don't want the Bucks to be remembered as the team to trade their miracle superstar in his prime who loved the city for a shot at upper mediocrity for some obscure seasons some decades ago.

Fumbling a bag or botching a great relationship would forever be known as "pulling a Milwaukee."

Frank Nova · Post #1199 » by **Frank Nova** » Tue May 6, 2025 8:59 pm

Giannis has solidified himself in 12 seasons as 1 of the greatest players in the sport to ever lace them up. He’d be the easiest player in history to root for in a different uniform in hopes he carries his own personal legacy to even greater heights. His legacy and personal accolades aren’t the driving force behind my decision to want to keep him in Milwaukee. It’s simply because having him on the roster keeps the team relevant and in the drivers seat to continue to stay competitive. I lived through cheering for the Eric Murdocks, Todd Days, Shawn Resperts, Vin Bakers, Glenn Robinsons, Ray Allens, Michael Redds, Yi Jianlians, Andrew Boguts, Brandon Jennings, Jabari Parkers.. all of those players combined as Milwaukee Bucks don’t scratch the surface to what Giannis provides for this franchise. Why anyone is trying to fast track back to any of those eras just seems insane to me when you have Giannis putting up video game numbers in his 30yr old season. Trading him now seems more premature than a high school kid trying to get laid for the 1st time. You trade him when he can’t carry the franchise anymore and there’s no more options left. We’re not even close to there yet.

Iheartfootball · Post #1200 » by **Iheartfootball** » Tue May 6, 2025 8:59 pm

th87 wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
th87 wrote:
Again, trading him now gives you the opportunity to become Orlando in 2-3 years - not a serious contender, which is not worth selling the best player/person who has ever walked through Milwaukee's doors. He deserves to be Dirk, Kobe. This is about what our grandkids will see - "Has Milwaukee ever had a star who stayed his whole career?" "Yeah, Giannis."

Legacy stuff. Bigger than basketball. Will be talked about forever.

Zero interest in giving that up for second round ceilings in 3 years.

What are you guys afraid of? Essentially you're giving up our legacy and current ceiling to reach a lower theoretical future ceiling because you don't want to be mediocre in the future.

Favre and Rodgers left, two all-timers who played for (by far) the most popular franchise in the state. Giannis leaving will sting, but **** happens. Legacy doesn't mean anything. It's a stupid thing for fans to get worked up over. The team is what matters.

The Packers are not the Bucks, and the NFL is not the NBA.

NFL draft hauls can easily turn a team into a real contender; not so in the NBA. The NFL is far less dependent on superstars, where a team solid at all positions can win a Super Bowl.

Favre and Rodgers meant a lot, but they were still part of a sea of Packers NFL HOFers, and more will follow.

For the Bucks? Basically Giannis leads the list. Kareem didn't like it here, Oscar was on the downswing of his career, Ray Allen isn't as good, and so on. Will the Bucks have any more HOFers for the foreseeable future? I'm not optimistic.

Legacy absolutely matters. When we're in our 80s in 2060 talking to the whippersnappers, we will definitely not remember the 2027 season, where Amen Thompson (or whoever) stole that 1 game against Boston in the second round.

We will remember how far Giannis took us.

You can’t compare what Rodgers or Favre did for the economy or global recognition to what Giannis has accomplished. It’s not even close. You can’t pin a precise dollar amount to it, but it has to be in the hundreds of millions. Also, let's be honest, Giannis is a good human being with values that align with a modern midwestern city. Do Favre and Rodgers have that same core?

Being a fan is inherently irrational. We root for men with no personal connection to us, over whom we have zero control. Objectively, it’s... fanatical behavior. But that’s what makes it meaningful.

Legacy is one of the things that makes us human. Why wouldn't we strive for that—individually and as a community—especially in our brief moment on a small rock floating in the universe? That's what Giannis represents, to me at least.