OT: Investing - Stocks/Mutual Funds/Bonds/Crypto

[Lippo]

about 1/2 that, might get 0.5 bitcoin a year, but that coin might be worth 30-50k in 12 months
8 x 1070 gtx rig costsbaround 4k, 1500-1600 electricity in a year maybe
$20-25/day not counting value increases.

you should be getting a better return than $25 on 8 1070s, and that should cost about $10-$12 a month at 0.09 kw/h

This is a conversation that interests me immensely. I am game to take it private.

Basic deets: I am now learning and keenly interested in creating my own mini ‘mining’ (i prefer harvesting myself) set-up. From my early explorations, Bitmain clearly has cornered the market in exposure and popularity BUT they are months out in terms of availability - particularly for something like their L3+. I have sincere questions about power usage and reward as the crypto problems become harder and harder. I hear from computer savvy friends that the basic gaming graphic cards cam no longer handle the load of current crypto problems. I am new to this side of things so i am still exploring.

Anyhow, my main curiosity is:

(1) are Bitmain’s machines worth the wait OR the distinct inflated overpay on Amazon/Ebay?

(2) Are some of the newcomers worth the investment - i.e. Dragonmint?

(3) Is a home build actually still worthwhile and/or sensible and affordable (i pay $0.06 a 0.075/kwh here in Portland)? My intuition says a small-scale homebuild would be the best avenue in an ideal and DIY world BUT it’s been hard to gauge this pragmatically w little recent amd updated info in this realm.

Curious to hear your response.

EDIT: also, I’ve done some calculations throughout the past several months w the pre-fab miners and it seems like anything from $300-$1500/mo is the range of expectation after expenses.

Oh sorry, don't have that much experience, but get a psu (platimun) over 1200w, and a mobo with enough slots, get some risers and buy 6-8 1070's, its not really hard unless you are totally optimizing. Nicehash (before hack), winminer , minergate are user friendly mining tools, but they do probably take 5-10% profits....youtube has 100 videos on every topic you could need to know..
FYI it is at least a 4-5 month time before you get back you initial investment. I just started doing it on my my gaming rig that i don't use much anymore..

[milwaukee bunks]

about 1/2 that, might get 0.5 bitcoin a year, but that coin might be worth 30-50k in 12 months
8 x 1070 gtx rig costsbaround 4k, 1500-1600 electricity in a year maybe
$20-25/day not counting value increases.

you should be getting a better return than $25 on 8 1070s, and that should cost about $10-$12 a month at 0.09 kw/h

This is a conversation that interests me immensely. I am game to take it private.

Basic deets: I am now learning and keenly interested in creating my own mini ‘mining’ (i prefer harvesting myself) set-up. From my early explorations, Bitmain clearly has cornered the market in exposure and popularity BUT they are months out in terms of availability - particularly for something like their L3+. I have sincere questions about power usage and reward as the crypto problems become harder and harder. I hear from computer savvy friends that the basic gaming graphic cards cam no longer handle the load of current crypto problems. I am new to this side of things so i am still exploring.

Anyhow, my main curiosity is:

(1) are Bitmain’s machines worth the wait OR the distinct inflated overpay on Amazon/Ebay?

(2) Are some of the newcomers worth the investment - i.e. Dragonmint?

(3) Is a home build actually still worthwhile and/or sensible and affordable (i pay $0.06 a 0.075/kwh here in Portland)? My intuition says a small-scale homebuild would be the best avenue in an ideal and DIY world BUT it’s been hard to gauge this pragmatically w little recent amd updated info in this realm.

Curious to hear your response.

EDIT: also, I’ve done some calculations throughout the past several months w the pre-fab miners and it seems like anything from $300-$1500/mo is the range of expectation after expenses.

It is very profitable for me currently, there are so many coins that I am not worried about difficulty as if you pool mine it constantly switches your algorithms to the most profitable coin.

Bitmain's machines are nice, but for the cost, I prefer to build my own machines so they can be upgraded down the line if needed. You can still use gaming cards, the 1070s are my go to right now for cost per hashing power, just be prepared to pay over $400 per card. If you watch Newegg and Amazon you can routinely find cards right at $400 and if you play the raise/cash back shopping websites you can usually save 5-10% on each one. I run 6 cards on all my machines just for stability and just about all boards these days support 6 via PCI 1x slots using risers, some boards support 8-13 cards with adapaters and such but I have never tried personally. I prefer to use server PSU too, all of them are platinum rated and produce 1200w via 220 and are 1/3 the cost. I pay $0.09970 kwh here and they are still very profitable. Avoid flashy cpu's and just use cheap Celerons on Amazon for $35, paying $250 for a cpu that will only net $1 per day isn't worth it in the long run. If you do everything right there is just about a 3 month return on investment at current rates.

[milwaukee bunks]

you should be getting a better return than $25 on 8 1070s, and that should cost about $10-$12 a month at 0.09 kw/h

This is a conversation that interests me immensely. I am game to take it private.

Basic deets: I am now learning and keenly interested in creating my own mini ‘mining’ (i prefer harvesting myself) set-up. From my early explorations, Bitmain clearly has cornered the market in exposure and popularity BUT they are months out in terms of availability - particularly for something like their L3+. I have sincere questions about power usage and reward as the crypto problems become harder and harder. I hear from computer savvy friends that the basic gaming graphic cards cam no longer handle the load of current crypto problems. I am new to this side of things so i am still exploring.

Anyhow, my main curiosity is:

(1) are Bitmain’s machines worth the wait OR the distinct inflated overpay on Amazon/Ebay?

(2) Are some of the newcomers worth the investment - i.e. Dragonmint?

(3) Is a home build actually still worthwhile and/or sensible and affordable (i pay $0.06 a 0.075/kwh here in Portland)? My intuition says a small-scale homebuild would be the best avenue in an ideal and DIY world BUT it’s been hard to gauge this pragmatically w little recent amd updated info in this realm.

Curious to hear your response.

EDIT: also, I’ve done some calculations throughout the past several months w the pre-fab miners and it seems like anything from $300-$1500/mo is the range of expectation after expenses.

Oh sorry, don't have that much experience, but get a psu (platimun) over 1200w, and a mobo with enough slots, get some risers and buy 6-8 1070's, its not really hard unless you are totally optimizing. Nicehash (before hack), winminer , minergate are user friendly mining tools, but they do probably take 5-10% profits....youtube has 100 videos on every topic you could need to know..
FYI it is at least a 4-5 month time before you get back you initial investment. I just started doing it on my my gaming rig that i don't use much anymore..

4-5 months ROI means you aren't doing something right, it should be just about 3 months at current prices.

Avoid all of those ease of use programs, Nicehash was probably the best if you were going that route but they were just hacked for 80 million dollars but claim they are reopening today, I used them for cpu mining on the few builds that I put good cpu's in before I got smart and saved money there. If you are looking for an easy solution use awesome miner and mine to zpool and miningpoolhub, these are user-friendly but none of these programs are going to net you as much as you would running the algos yourself and mining directly to coin. Minegrate is proven to steal over 10% of your hashing power and winminer just doesn't have the demand to give you top dollar for your hashing power, so definitely avoid those 2.

[SupremeHustle]

Should I buy a bit mining machine as a gift for a 13 year old?

[Finn]

Recent Bitcoin Article

I'm an old guy so I'll stick with more traditional investments.

[MickeyDavis]

There are always extremists. Obviously you never know when the bubble will burst (and it will burst) but nothing wrong with dabbling in it and trying to catch some upside. But yeah if anyone is mortgaging their house and/or betting their retirement on it then they're being foolish.

[jschligs]

I would avoid Bitmain machines - we were looking at buying their Antminer D3 or something for Dash, it was 1 BTC (when it was valued at ~$2,000, wouldn't ship until December. Now 1 BTC is worth $16.5k.

If anything, build the rig yourself and visit forums to get it running. If you don't know how to do that, I wouldn't advise mining. Reason being, I've had to spend multiple days working for hours to get all videocards up and running again. I have 2 rigs running, one with 5 cards one with 3 and it's actually more work than just "letting it run". You have to know what you're doing.

[skones]

Recent Bitcoin Article

I'm an old guy so I'll stick with more traditional investments.

I mean, you're a little late if you're trying to become a bitcoin millionaire at this point. It's already happened.

[bizarro]

This is a conversation that interests me immensely. I am game to take it private.

Basic deets: I am now learning and keenly interested in creating my own mini ‘mining’ (i prefer harvesting myself) set-up. From my early explorations, Bitmain clearly has cornered the market in exposure and popularity BUT they are months out in terms of availability - particularly for something like their L3+. I have sincere questions about power usage and reward as the crypto problems become harder and harder. I hear from computer savvy friends that the basic gaming graphic cards cam no longer handle the load of current crypto problems. I am new to this side of things so i am still exploring.

Anyhow, my main curiosity is:

(1) are Bitmain’s machines worth the wait OR the distinct inflated overpay on Amazon/Ebay?

(2) Are some of the newcomers worth the investment - i.e. Dragonmint?

(3) Is a home build actually still worthwhile and/or sensible and affordable (i pay $0.06 a 0.075/kwh here in Portland)? My intuition says a small-scale homebuild would be the best avenue in an ideal and DIY world BUT it’s been hard to gauge this pragmatically w little recent amd updated info in this realm.

Curious to hear your response.

EDIT: also, I’ve done some calculations throughout the past several months w the pre-fab miners and it seems like anything from $300-$1500/mo is the range of expectation after expenses.

Oh sorry, don't have that much experience, but get a psu (platimun) over 1200w, and a mobo with enough slots, get some risers and buy 6-8 1070's, its not really hard unless you are totally optimizing. Nicehash (before hack), winminer , minergate are user friendly mining tools, but they do probably take 5-10% profits....youtube has 100 videos on every topic you could need to know..
FYI it is at least a 4-5 month time before you get back you initial investment. I just started doing it on my my gaming rig that i don't use much anymore..

4-5 months ROI means you aren't doing something right, it should be just about 3 months at current prices.

Avoid all of those ease of use programs, Nicehash was probably the best if you were going that route but they were just hacked for 80 million dollars but claim they are reopening today, I used them for cpu mining on the few builds that I put good cpu's in before I got smart and saved money there. If you are looking for an easy solution use awesome miner and mine to zpool and miningpoolhub, these are user-friendly but none of these programs are going to net you as much as you would running the algos yourself and mining directly to coin. Minegrate is proven to steal over 10% of your hashing power and winminer just doesn't have the demand to give you top dollar for your hashing power, so definitely avoid those 2.

Definitely keen on the 1070’s. I have access to 3 towers that will carry 3 cards each and a 4th that will carry 6 -w/out paying a cent. The Linux-driven mining pool coding is a bit of a learning curve but the tutorials seem ‘doable’. My partner in this is much more savvy w the computer side of things whereas I am the cashroll and researcher - i.e. check this out...my research says we should do this amd i think you should attempt to execute.

Do you have any recommendations there in terms of Linux mining and up-to-date coding materials?

The more you learn of the Alt coin world, the more you learn if you really want to earn some capital you must dive-in completely and take as much ‘ownership’ as you can. Offline wallets. DIY mining rigs. Your own mining pool. So much corruption and greed - I just read of the Malware Bitmain implanted in their early hardware!

I only pay (winter peak) $0.075/ kwh in Portland.

[bizarro]

Recent Bitcoin Article

I'm an old guy so I'll stick with more traditional investments.

I mean, you're a little late if you're trying to become a bitcoin millionaire at this point. It's already happened.

Patently false. I have many many a friend in the industry. I’ve been investing and Alt-Coining since 2014.

To sum it up best and challenge your assertion, one of my most respected peers just shared with me:

“It’s like the past several years, the party was being planned. Now the party is here. BUT, this is a party starting at 7pm and going til sunrise. It’s now 7pm.”

[midranger]

I would avoid Bitmain machines - we were looking at buying their Antminer D3 or something for Dash, it was 1 BTC (when it was valued at ~$2,000, wouldn't ship until December. Now 1 BTC is worth $16.5k.

You just described why bitcoin is useless as a currency, which is it's only intended use and value.

[Finn]

You're not challenging "my" assertion, I simply shared an article from an online paper I read daily.

[WiscSports1]

The current decision I am debating is whether I should go with traditional 401k vs a Roth 401k. My company offers both and since I recently switched jobs, I'll be able to start contributing to one. I can mix them percentage wise, like 5% each if I choose to.

I feel like it would be wise to do a Roth 401k as I'm in my 20's, not married and have no kids. If I can afford the taxes upfront, wouldn't it make more sense to do the Roth 401k as my income is likely to rise as I get older?

[bizarro]

You're not challenging "my" assertion, I simply shared an article from an online paper I read daily.

I wasn’t talking to you, Finn. I completely respect your choices. Everyone is entitled to their own investment strategies. I was referring to claims made in direct response to your post

[bizarro]

It’s clear to me there are two distinct fields of thought concerning investing in this thread. Would everyone be game if I started a Crypto investing/mining thread separately?

There’s no need for any one of us to downplay or muddle our individual strategies and aims. And, personally, I don’t want to continually face uninformed naysaying and doubters speaking to a realm of strategy they know nothing about. Just my opinion.

Let me know

[midranger]

The current decision I am debating is whether I should go with traditional 401k vs a Roth 401k. My company offers both and since I recently switched jobs, I'll be able to start contributing to one. I can mix them percentage wise, like 5% each if I choose to.

I feel like it would be wise to do a Roth 401k as I'm in my 20's, not married and have no kids. If I can afford the taxes upfront, wouldn't it make more sense to do the Roth 401k as my income is likely to rise as I get older?

Do you expect your retirement income, i.e. drawdown on accounts, to be higher than your current income?

[MickeyDavis]

Keep the crypto convo in this thread.

[Finn]

The current decision I am debating is whether I should go with traditional 401k vs a Roth 401k. My company offers both and since I recently switched jobs, I'll be able to start contributing to one. I can mix them percentage wise, like 5% each if I choose to.

I feel like it would be wise to do a Roth 401k as I'm in my 20's, not married and have no kids. If I can afford the taxes upfront, wouldn't it make more sense to do the Roth 401k as my income is likely to rise as I get older?

If it were me, I'd do the traditional up to the company match (assuming there is one) & put whatever else I could into the Roth. If no match, 100% Roth.

[jschligs]

I would avoid Bitmain machines - we were looking at buying their Antminer D3 or something for Dash, it was 1 BTC (when it was valued at ~$2,000, wouldn't ship until December. Now 1 BTC is worth $16.5k.

You just described why bitcoin is useless as a currency, which is it's only intended use and value.

Curious as to how. They had an extremely high demand for their products and slow production times, thus leading to a large gap as to when it would be delivered, but wanted payment at time of purchase. Super smart on their part. It'd be like buying something with gold when it was valued at X and then not getting your product for 4 months and gold being worth 10 times that.

[jschligs]

Oh sorry, don't have that much experience, but get a psu (platimun) over 1200w, and a mobo with enough slots, get some risers and buy 6-8 1070's, its not really hard unless you are totally optimizing. Nicehash (before hack), winminer , minergate are user friendly mining tools, but they do probably take 5-10% profits....youtube has 100 videos on every topic you could need to know..
FYI it is at least a 4-5 month time before you get back you initial investment. I just started doing it on my my gaming rig that i don't use much anymore..

4-5 months ROI means you aren't doing something right, it should be just about 3 months at current prices.

Avoid all of those ease of use programs, Nicehash was probably the best if you were going that route but they were just hacked for 80 million dollars but claim they are reopening today, I used them for cpu mining on the few builds that I put good cpu's in before I got smart and saved money there. If you are looking for an easy solution use awesome miner and mine to zpool and miningpoolhub, these are user-friendly but none of these programs are going to net you as much as you would running the algos yourself and mining directly to coin. Minegrate is proven to steal over 10% of your hashing power and winminer just doesn't have the demand to give you top dollar for your hashing power, so definitely avoid those 2.

Definitely keen on the 1070’s. I have access to 3 towers that will carry 3 cards each and a 4th that will carry 6 -w/out paying a cent. The Linux-driven mining pool coding is a bit of a learning curve but the tutorials seem ‘doable’. My partner in this is much more savvy w the computer side of things whereas I am the cashroll and researcher - i.e. check this out...my research says we should do this amd i think you should attempt to execute.

Do you have any recommendations there in terms of Linux mining and up-to-date coding materials?

The more you learn of the Alt coin world, the more you learn if you really want to earn some capital you must dive-in completely and take as much ‘ownership’ as you can. Offline wallets. DIY mining rigs. Your own mining pool. So much corruption and greed - I just read of the Malware Bitmain implanted in their early hardware!

I only pay (winter peak) $0.075/ kwh in Portland.

You get great electricity rates in Portland haha, in Madison I'm paying .13/kwh. I'm running 5 1050s (got for 100 new) and a 570, 580 and 1070 all mining ETH. You're operation sounds similar to my old roommates and me. We all put in money towards it, two of us do the research (me and 1 of them) and I do all the executing. So really one of them is getting off easy haha.