PG Wizards - Bucks Escape

[tedbrogen]

Giannis won a DPOY because Bud knew you maximize him the same way the Celtics maximized Robert Williams, as a free safety causing havoc.

If you have an elite rim protector like Brook and then a free safety like Giannis, teams start being afraid to go to the rim.

The issue is the only adjustment AG made was having Brook drop. Everyone else is still playing overly aggressive D most of the time. They are switching everything except Brook. So teams can easily seek out whatever mismatches they want and can also pull Giannis away from the rim which makes it easier to score inside and get offensive rebounds.

The other issue is that because they don’t have a true defensive identity, guys are confused as to what they should do. This is because sometimes they are playing very aggressive but sometimes they play soft to try and contain and sometimes they play zone. So guys are making mistakes all over the place as there isn’t a true base system or philosophy.

[soxperry]

i'm one of the most staunch Andre backers on this board, but he's a rookie and it's still pretty early. give it time.

What five players would you have had out there with the Wiz inbounding and the Bucks up three with 16 seconds left?

You have a timeout so you don’t have to worry about offensive skill at all.

5 guys who i know are not going to foul anyone. if it goes to overtime, whatever. we played with our food that whole game but i would have felt extremely comfortable going to OT.

[raysbookclub]

Pat C had a yikes bad game. Missed wide open threes, defensive breakdowns including being part of the one that left Shamet wide wide open for the three at the end, and missed both free throws that would have ended the game.

AJJ should be on the floor more, but defensively he needs to not foul so much.

Marjon was getting talked up by Wiz announcers (Drew Gooden). Nice to see him with that competitive fire vs Poole.

[greekbuck34]

First of all I hope Khris is fine! When I heard achilles I got scared.

Now we were asking from Bud for 5 years to give a bigger role offensively to Brook other than shooting open 3s and Griffin only needed a couple of games to make it happen. He is a franchise scoring leader for a reason. I love this man!

The main reason we are that bad on defense is because we afraid of making fouls and send them to the FT line. We avoid contact and when we do make contact we do not commit. Elite defenses foul or make contact in almost every play and force the refs to decide what to call and what to not call because they can't call fouls the whole time. I watched the Orlando Magic against the Celtics and it was day and night compared to us. That's how we used to defend too. Now we're just afraid and the opponent gets comfortable because they know they won't get blocked or hacked on their jumpshots, their drives and their floaters.

Giannis missed like 15 easy dunks/layups and assists in the last two games only because he either didn't go strong enough or the ball slipped out of his hands. He wouldn't miss anything for two weeks straight and now this. I know he was sick but its still bizzare to watch. He was still efficient though. Nice clutch FTs too.

Offense is great. The best we've ever looked in Giannis era and its not even close. I loved the 4th quarter with just Giannis or just Dame too. We are unreal good in the 4th this season.

[soxperry]

First of all I hope Khris is fine! When I heard achilles I got scared.

Now we were asking from Bud for 5 years to give a bigger role offensively to Brook other than shooting open 3s and Griffin only needed a couple of games to make it happen. He is a franchise scoring leader for a reason. I love this man!

The main reason we are that bad on defense is because we afraid of making fouls and send them to the FT line. We avoid contact and when we do make contact we do not commit. Elite defenses foul or make contact in almost every play and force the refs to decide what to call and what to not call because they can't call fouls the whole time. I watched the Orlando Magic against the Celtics and it was day and night compared to us. That's how we used to defend too. Now we're just afraid and the opponent gets comfortable because they know they won't get blocked or hacked on their jumpshots, their drives and their floaters.

Giannis missed like 15 easy dunks/layups and assists in the last two games only because he either didn't go strong enough or the ball slipped out of his hands. He wouldn't miss anything for two weeks straight and now this. I know he was sick but its still bizzare to watch. He was still efficient though. Nice clutch FTs too.

Offense is great. The best we've ever looked in Giannis era and its not even close. I loved the 4th quarter with just Giannis or just Dame too. We are unreal good in the 4th this season.

elite defenses have players that can get away with this because they are good defenders to begin with. you get more of the benefit of the doubt when the ref knows you can hold your own. if our guys tried that, they would either get blown by or they would get called very very frequently.

[DutchManDanFan]

Too bad BroLo is washed.

[old skool]

I thought AJG & AJJ both looked like defensive liabilities in this game. And with Green missing 3/4 of his shots, there was no reason for either to be in the game. They got a (very) little experience, but failed to show that they would provide immediate help.

Beasley looks confused on defense. Not just bad defense, but super slow to react to the offense.

[old skool]

Driving home listening to the radio post game broadcast, Justin Garcia was touting the Bucks stats in "clutch" situations (games with a margin of 5 points or less in the the last 5 minutes of regulation). The Bucks have the 2nd best clutch time record in the NBA at 6-2. Only the Mavs are better at 7-1, with their sole loss at Milwaukee. The Bucks offensive rating is 127.6, third best in the NBA behind Indiana and Dallas. Their defensive rating is 96.1, fourth best in the NBA behind OKC, Toronto and the Lakers.

If Griffin deserves blame for the ugly stats the Bucks have posted to date, he should get some of the credit for their play in the "clutch".

While their overall play has been a cause for concern if not alarm, their play at the end of close games should provide some hope for the future.

[slos]

So…

- You have Dame/Giannis/Brook who can all score 30 in the same game.

- You have Midds who can’t play high minutes and needs the Ginobili treatment ASAP.

- You have Griffin who wants an aggressive defence focusing on deflections and steals.

- You have a bench that lucks offensive firepower with Pat and Bobby struggling.

Some adjustments seem obvious at this point.

- Slide both MarJon and AJJ in the starting lineup. Willing defenders with size that can make smart plays and won’t ask for too many shots in offence.

- Save Midds as 6th. He still closes games. That’s probably a move that extends his career a bit.

- Bring Beasley from the bench with more looks for him.

Lillard (36)/Payne (12)
MarJon (20)/Beasley (20)/Pat (8)
AJJ (20)/Middleton (24)/Pat (4)
Giannis (36)/Bobby (12)
Lopez (36)/Bobby (12)

[greekbuck34]

I think we are trying to find problems where there are none. Some people act like this is the first season they are watching the team. Giannis sits by himself some times in timeouts when he deals with something that's bothering him. There is no drama involved there. He did it the last two games because of his flu, he did it in the Miami series because of his back and he did it for the first time in the entire final series because of his knee. He does that since then because it has a positive effect on him.

There is nothing strange in how Dame and Giannis act right now. Dame shows zero emotion his entire career, Giannis is quite when he is in pain or extremely tired.

There is only one major problem now and that's our defense.

[Sigra]

Well, thinking out of box here, it could be better if we have interesting/close games in regular season. It could train us to know what to do in that kind of games in playoffs. With Bud and his system our regular season games were so dominant that we would enter playoffs without expirience in close games.

But I agree that coach Grief make 2 huge mistakes:
1. How he use Giannis at defense (Bud was right there)
2. How he use rookie. That guy is exactly what we need with our 4 stars.

But, everything feels futile if Middleton is done. I said long time ago "next Redd" and I cant understand how profesional team with all doctors and stuff couldnt see that.

[midranger]

Every time Brooky has a high usage game like this (rare, to be sure), all I can think about is all the playoff series we could have won under Bud if we could’ve just scored a handful more buckets in the halfcourt, as Brook was standing around at the arc watching Giannis go 1-on-4.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Bucks haven't even come close to playing their best basketball yet and they're a 3pt loss on the road vs Boston from having the best record in the league through 16 games.

You guys who are still obsessed with Bud are memes at this point.

you dont have to play mental gymnastics about maybe winning a game and/or best records and all this other made up nonsense about how good we are or how were gonna maybe be if this or that had happened or does happen in the future because you believe it will

16 games in all you have to do is keep an eye on SRS.... were at 2.82 thats 10th in the league.

our expected win-loss of 9-7 is another decent projection but not as good as srs. that has us 13th which i believe is a bit low considering it dosnt have SOS involved. its is interesting that our point diff would have us as a playin team right now tho. thats where were actually at in that neighborhood thru 16 games.

so bottom line if you want to be real...if wed picked up this or that or whatever else youre going on about it doesnt mean ****. were still a 1st or second round exit team at this point just like the last two years by all best available metrics

[BuckFan25226]

We are 11-5, one game behind Boston, on pace for 56 wins. That's not all that different than the previous few years. All this with a gimp Middleton and while playing all the young guys which Bud never did. We are getting the best out of Brook, blooding the youngsters and Giannis/Dame are probably about 50% of where they will be in 5 months.

On top of all this, we are in pole position for the NBA Cup even as the other major contenders like Boston, Denver, Philly falter. I suspect we will complain all the way to the NBA Championship (and Cup) just because we aren't winning games by 10+ points.

Please compare this year’s net rating to prior years.

Yeah great....

We had dominant net ratings and differentials in 18-19 and 19-20 and didn't do dick when it mattered because we didn't have the horses to close out games.

There will undoubtedly need to be some roster tweaks during the season but I believe Horst will figure something out.

[BuckFan25226]

I think we are trying to find problems where there are none. Some people act like this is the first season they are watching the team. Giannis sits by himself some times in timeouts when he deals with something that's bothering him. There is no drama involved there. He did it the last two games because of his flu, he did it in the Miami series because of his back and he did it for the first time in the entire final series because of his knee. He does that since then because it has a positive effect on him.

There is nothing strange in how Dame and Giannis act right now. Dame shows zero emotion his entire career, Giannis is quite when he is in pain or extremely tired.

There is only one major problem now and that's our defense.

I go to a decent amount of games and my tix are close. Giannis had done that for years under Bud. I first noticed it a handful of years ago. No idea what it means but he does it a lot.

[MickeyDavis]

I think we are trying to find problems where there are none. Some people act like this is the first season they are watching the team. Giannis sits by himself some times in timeouts when he deals with something that's bothering him. There is no drama involved there. He did it the last two games because of his flu, he did it in the Miami series because of his back and he did it for the first time in the entire final series because of his knee. He does that since then because it has a positive effect on him.

There is nothing strange in how Dame and Giannis act right now. Dame shows zero emotion his entire career, Giannis is quite when he is in pain or extremely tired.

There is only one major problem now and that's our defense.

I go to a decent amount of games and my tix are close. Giannis had done that for years under Bud. I first noticed it a handful of years ago. No idea what it means but he does it a lot.

Yes, there are some with agendas that look to anything/everything to try to validate those agendas. Giannis is by himself during timeouts! Dame's body language obviously means he doesn't want to be here! And so on and so on. Amateur sports pyschologists.

Giannis has been doing the timeout thing on occasion for years. Dame's demeanor has been the same since the day he was drafted. Giannis mean mugs. Bobby flexes. Dame is the stone face assassin.

[greekbuck34]

It's still November.

Our SRS is 2.82.
The Rockets, Knicks and Magic have 4.60-4.70 right now. Clear contenders.
The Hawks have 3.26 and are 7-7.
Minnessota and OKC dominate the West right now while the Suns have 0.44, Dallas have 0.83 and the Kings have 0.35. The Warriors who have 2.34 are 8-9.

Stop using advanced stats in November to prove your point.

We are clearly disjointed right now but we will be contenders. We have Giannis who is the 2nd best player in the league at worst and Dame who is the most clutch guard in the league.
They played just over 10 games together and we already look unstoppable on offense and especially in the 4th quarter and clutch time.
All we need to do is to improve our defense to a good enough level until the playoffs.

I rather have this problem to solve than pray to God we finally hit some 3s in the playoffs to punish an elite wall defense or fix our half court problems without a single PG in the roster or Bud to make adjustments in a playoff series.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Can I just say I love having so many problems and still one game out of first in the league? Like yeah I would love to be running circles around team and would've probably kept bud of I knew we were getting Dame but still excited for every game. Doubt we are a bucks team this talented in the next decade.

[BigO]

Proud of you guys for focusing the discussion on defense. Good discussion with a few bad takes.

Good Takes part:

1) Good defenses are usually made up of good defenders. The Bucks used to have four really good defenders several years ago (Brook, Giannis, Jrue, Middleton). Then Middleton fell off the table big-time and the defense suffered. Lopez was out an entire regular season and the Bucks dropped to average or worse (continuing to play the drop in his absence made no sense but that's what we did). Personnel matters. It's not 100% scheme.

2) So the personnel is worse and that's not Griffin's fault. What is Griffin's fault is how he is playing Giannis. His rebounding is down and that's because he is being forced to play too far from the basket. It's no accident opponents are killing the Bucks at the rim.

3) I don't know if it's an accident or not, but if Lopez is going to be a major part of the team, then he can't be sitting at the 3 point line the entire game. Bud refused to post him up. Hopefully, this continues to be a big part of the offense when he's in there.

The Bad Takes:

1) Giannis is a bad individual defender. This is the kind of narrative that gets believed because it's repeated so often. Giannis, in my mind, is the best individual defender the Bucks have. Does he get beat by quicker guards? Sure, but he is still good. It's just that he is being misused in that role. That should be saved for special circumstances, like Butler in the playoffs. He needs to be near the basket and there are multiple ways to do that.

2) Bring back Bud. Don't get me started. A change was needed. Bud and Griffin weren't the only two options.

[Milbucks96]

It's still November.

Our SRS is 2.82.
The Rockets, Knicks and Magic have 4.60-4.70 right now. Clear contenders.
The Hawks have 3.26 and are 7-7.
Minnessota and OKC dominate the West right now while the Suns have 0.44, Dallas have 0.83 and the Kings have 0.35. The Warriors who have 2.34 are 8-9.

Stop using advanced stats in November to prove your point.

We are clearly disjointed right now but we will be contenders. We have Giannis who is the 2nd best player in the league at worst and Dame who is the most clutch guard in the league.
They played just over 10 games together and we already look unstoppable on offense and especially in the 4th quarter and clutch time.
All we need to do is to improve our defense to a good enough level until the playoffs.

I rather have this problem to solve than pray to God we finally hit some 3s in the playoffs to punish an elite wall defense or fix our half court problems without a single PG in the roster or Bud to make adjustments in a playoff series.

That’s like a huge ask lol it’s crazy to just say all we have to do. I agree with you on the advanced stats being too small to mean everything but they’re worth discussing at this point.

And pointing to all those teams that are usually bad as a reason to shrug off our meh performance is wrong, those teams are not the same bad teams they’ve been. Like the 2018/19 bucks, teams turn around fast now a days.

Believing the bucks will start looking elite is logical especially with the talent, but just like last year, it’s signs so far that are rightfully making people wonder about the coaching, roster, and fit. I’m cautiously optimistic but still huge improvements are needed before this team is part of the elite teams so far this season.