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Lux Tax at $69.9mm. League says prepare for $61mm next year

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Re: Lux Tax at $69.9mm. League says prepare for $61mm next year 

Post#121 » by europa » Wed Jul 8, 2009 3:40 pm

pilprin wrote:Europa, why the chubbie over Childress?


:lol:

As I've explained before, I think he can be another Battier-type player. Again, I'm not saying he's as good as Battier. I'd consider him Shane Battier Lite. :) But like Battier, he plays smart, he does the little things I believe teams need to have done to win and he's versatile. He's athletic, has shot a ridiculously high FG% for a SF, is a very good FT shooter, solid rebounder, passer and isn't careless with the ball. He's just a real good basketball player. He isn't going to wow you with gaudy numbers but I believe the more you watch him the more you see how valuable he can be because of all the things he does. I also believe his best ball is ahead of him. This is the kind of player I have been harping on for the past three years that the Bucks need to acquire and Hammond has shown me for the past year that he agrees. I wasn't the least bit surprised Hammond showed such strong interest in him. He fits in perfectly with the type of team Hammond and Skiles want and the type of player they want.
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Re: Luxury Tax at $69.9 million 

Post#122 » by LISTEN2JAZZ » Wed Jul 8, 2009 3:40 pm

paul wrote:WTF was that you idiot? My estimations throughout the past few months came directly from what GAD had posted over that period and I never at any point definitively said it would be $71m, are you calling GAD a homer?

Come on guys, no need to argue. We all know GAD is indeed a homer.
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Re: Lux Tax at $69.9mm. League says prepare for $61mm next year 

Post#123 » by pilprin » Wed Jul 8, 2009 3:54 pm

europa wrote:
pilprin wrote:Europa, why the chubbie over Childress?


:lol:

As I've explained before, I think he can be another Battier-type player. Again, I'm not saying he's as good as Battier. I'd consider him Shane Battier Lite. :) But like Battier, he plays smart, he does the little things I believe teams need to have done to win and he's versatile. He's athletic, has shot a ridiculously high FG% for a SF, is a very good FT shooter, solid rebounder, passer and isn't careless with the ball. He's just a real good basketball player. He isn't going to wow you with gaudy numbers but I believe the more you watch him the more you see how valuable he can be because of all the things he does. I also believe his best ball is ahead of him. This is the kind of player I have been harping on for the past three years that the Bucks need to acquire and Hammond has shown me for the past year that he agrees. I wasn't the least bit surprised Hammond showed such strong interest in him. He fits in perfectly with the type of team Hammond and Skiles want and the type of player they want.


Okay...If he comes I hope you are right...I just hope its not at the expense of Sessions or Ersan.
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Re: Luxury Tax at $69.9 million 

Post#124 » by Bernman » Wed Jul 8, 2009 4:04 pm

paul wrote:
Bernman wrote:
This actually wasn't a bad outcome, as PP asserted. Of course some homers like Paul were expecting it to be 71 because that would have made the Bucks' moves more defensible....but you can't be under the influence of the dissonance.


WTF was that you idiot? My estimations throughout the past few months came directly from what GAD had posted over that period and I never at any point definitively said it would be $71m, are you calling GAD a homer?

How unnecessary was that?


Projecting.
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Re: Lux Tax at $69.9mm. League says prepare for $61mm next year 

Post#125 » by Joana » Wed Jul 8, 2009 4:08 pm

$61mm? How can the luxury tax decline so quickly in a single year when the BRI increased last season, even considering the lagging effect? Either Stern has access to leading economic indicators I'm not aware of or he's trying to gain leverage to the CBA negotiations.
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Re: Luxury Tax at $69.9 million 

Post#126 » by paul » Wed Jul 8, 2009 4:10 pm

Bernman wrote:
paul wrote:
Bernman wrote:
This actually wasn't a bad outcome, as PP asserted. Of course some homers like Paul were expecting it to be 71 because that would have made the Bucks' moves more defensible....but you can't be under the influence of the dissonance.


WTF was that you idiot? My estimations throughout the past few months came directly from what GAD had posted over that period and I never at any point definitively said it would be $71m, are you calling GAD a homer?

How unnecessary was that?


Projecting.


What?

I ask again, why on earth did you feel the need to post that? I've never at any point made definitive statements about the tax number and have been guided by GAD who is by far the most knowledgable guy on the topic around here. My only assumption when it came to the tax was that the level would not drop significantly despite the alarmist belief of some posters due to the method that is used to calculate it, again as explained by GAD.

So you just felt like being a jerk to me by spurting out a completely unprovoked insult? Have we ever even had an argument before?
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Re: Lux Tax at $69.9mm. League says prepare for $61mm next year 

Post#127 » by Joana » Wed Jul 8, 2009 4:15 pm

DocHoliday wrote:http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/50187702.html
Bucks are over cap but under tax level
The National Basketball Association announced the salary cap for the 2009-'10 season on Tuesday night, establishing it at $57.7 million.

The tax level has been set at $69.92 million, and any team which exceeds that figure will pay a $1 tax for each dollar it exceeds the level.

Those numbers represent a reduction from 2008-'09, when the salary cap was $58.68 million and the tax level was $71.15 million.

The new salary cap and tax level went into effect at 11:01 p.m. (Milwaukee time) Tuesday, when teams became eligible to sign free agents and make trades. A moratorium period had been in effect since July 1.

Bucks general manager John Hammond has emphasized that the team will not exceed the luxury tax, even though it is over the cap level with a payroll estimated at $64.9 million. Four players account for more than $40 million of that total - Michael Redd ($17.04 million), Andrew Bogut ($10 million), Dan Gadzuric ($6.75 million) and Luke Ridnour ($6.5 million). Bogut is in the first year of a five-year, $60 million extension he signed last summer.

If the Bucks waive Bruce Bowen, they will realize a $2 million savings and could be between $6 million and $7 million under the tax level.

After trading Richard Jefferson to San Antonio as part of a three-team deal last month, the Bucks were able to gain some flexibility regarding roster moves. They picked up the expiring contracts of Bowen and veteran Kurt Thomas from the Spurs, and they also obtained 22-year-old power forward Amir Johnson from the Detroit Pistons.

The Bucks are still looking to make a deal and remain interested in 26-year-old forward Josh Childress, a restricted free agent whose rights are owned by the Atlanta Hawks. They also are seeking to sign their own restricted free agents, power forward Ersan Ilyasova and point guard Ramon Sessions.

Childress must decide by July 15 if he wants to opt out of his contract with Olympiakos in Greece and return to the NBA. He played last season for the Greek team in the first year of a three-year, $20 million deal.

Olympiakos also could play a role with Ilyasova, who is debating whether to remain in Europe or return to the NBA. Olympiakos is seriously interested in the Turkish player and has made a two-year offer worth more than 6 million euros ($8 million), according to a source. Ilyasova played the past two seasons in Spain with Barcelona, which reached the Euroleague final four during the past year.

Ilyasova was a 2005 second-round pick of the Bucks and played in 66 games with Milwaukee during the 2006-'07 season.


It looks like Ersan's pricetag just went up.


Olympiacos can't just sign Ersan. He's a free-agent for the Bucks, but not for them. This is probably from the Greek media. I wouldn't care a lot about it, I just read an interview with Nowitzki stating he'll play for Panathinaikos once his NBA contract is up. What's Gardner's source?

Anyway, what I've heard is that Barcelona offered Ilyasova a new €5.8M/2 years contract yesterday.
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Re: Lux Tax at $69.9mm. League says prepare for $61mm next year 

Post#128 » by dedned » Wed Jul 8, 2009 5:02 pm

If you can make more money in Europe why would you come to the NBA. To play against the best? The only reason the best players play in the NBA is because of the money. Think I'd choose Spain or Greece over Milwaukee. Especially if I was getting paid more.
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Re: Lux Tax at $69.9mm. League says prepare for $61mm next year 

Post#129 » by crkone » Wed Jul 8, 2009 5:16 pm

dedned wrote:If you can make more money in Europe why would you come to the NBA. To play against the best? The only reason the best players play in the NBA is because of the money. Think I'd choose Spain or Greece over Milwaukee. Especially if I was getting paid more.


Standard of living or family, I don't know.

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Re: Lux Tax at $69.9mm. League says prepare for $61mm next year 

Post#130 » by emunney » Wed Jul 8, 2009 5:20 pm

Long term earning potential.
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Re: Lux Tax at $69.9mm. League says prepare for $61mm next year 

Post#131 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jul 8, 2009 5:21 pm

Looking at Fam's breakdown, for 2010-11 we're at $49.4M committed (including the 2010 first rounder) for 9 roster spots. Looking at the projections for next year, if we did sign all three of Sessions/Childress/Ersan, we're probably going to be very close to the lux tax level for 12 guys signed.

Sure would be nice to clear Redd for expirings this year. Get us down to $31.1M committed for 8 guys, which would be quite a bit of wiggle room.
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Re: Lux Tax at $69.9mm. League says prepare for $61mm next year 

Post#132 » by CBeacs » Wed Jul 8, 2009 5:28 pm

Meeks signed 3yr deal per JSO, but no $$ given
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Re: Lux Tax at $69.9mm. League says prepare for $61mm next year 

Post#133 » by Joana » Wed Jul 8, 2009 5:39 pm

dedned wrote:If you can make more money in Europe why would you come to the NBA.


This:
emunney wrote:Long term earning potential.


and this:

dedned wrote:To play against the best?
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Re: Lux Tax at $69.9mm. League says prepare for $61mm next year 

Post#134 » by Bernman » Wed Jul 8, 2009 5:43 pm

Well how about:

Being among people who speak the same language as you so more social opportunities are available.

Being around your family.

Being in position to give back to a community who reminded you of your own.

Validation of your peers, the people you grew up with, maybe doubted you.

The chance to prove you are the best basketball player in the world, or win a championship that isn't somewhat hollow because it means you're second best (I know this is baiting Talkbasket/KWSN-Men, but it's reality).

I certainly would hope those factors compensate for a gap of 1 million dollars, between 6 and 7, because that should give anyone who doesn't spend their money with such frivolity, and isn't driven exorbitantly by material motives, all the financial security they need. You know, rich people still do drugs.
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Re: Lux Tax at $69.9mm. League says prepare for $61mm next year 

Post#135 » by old skool » Wed Jul 8, 2009 7:14 pm

The real news here is not the cap and tax levels for this year, but the warnings on the cap and tax level for 2010-11.

That could have a major impact on the willingness of teams to extend offers to Sessions this summer. The only real threat the Bucks face to resigning Sessions is if some team offers him a long term deal, with major dollars beyond year two. The threat of future tax level turmoil has to deter teams from making high priced long term deals. I could see the Bucks forcing Sessions to sign for less than $4-million this year, with a player ETO in the final year. I say that because it does not appear that there are many teams in a position to throw a lot of paper in Ramon's direction.

So many teams have been sitting on the sidelines waiting for the 2010 free agent bonanza, and now their bullseye has been moved back another 50 paces. I can't imagine that a team like the Knicks - or any other 2010 hopeful - will give up on the Lebron dream to sign Sessions. So many moves have been explained away by "2010", that it will be nearly impossible to change directions now. The PR hit will be incredible.

All of those teams clearing cap space for 2010 look to have a lot less room to sign free agents than they planned. This does not hurt the Bucks at all.

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Re: Lux Tax at $69.9mm. League says prepare for $61mm next year 

Post#136 » by SlideRuleJockey » Wed Jul 8, 2009 7:26 pm

LUKE23 wrote:Looking at Fam's breakdown, for 2010-11 we're at $49.4M committed (including the 2010 first rounder) for 9 roster spots. Looking at the projections for next year, if we did sign all three of Sessions/Childress/Ersan, we're probably going to be very close to the lux tax level for 12 guys signed.

Sure would be nice to clear Redd for expirings this year. Get us down to $31.1M committed for 8 guys, which would be quite a bit of wiggle room.


Come on Luke, Why worry? Redd has a player option for next year that he will surely decline to take part in the "Summer of Love" with Wade, Bosh and 'Bron, et al........
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Re: Lux Tax at $69.9mm. League says prepare for $61mm next year 

Post#137 » by europa » Wed Jul 8, 2009 9:48 pm

Good article on how some poor teams could benefit from the memo sent out by the NBA last night:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-4 ... Cloud.html
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Re: Lux Tax at $69.9mm. League says prepare for $61mm next year 

Post#138 » by Badgerlander » Thu Jul 9, 2009 12:48 am

Yeah, according to the article...
Now all 30 of those teams will have a $6.8 million shot in the arm. 23 of them will get an additional $2.9 million in luxury tax. And the lowest revenue teams will apparently be getting even more funds than that -- even as player salaries likely get cheaper.

Herb gets a check for at least $9.7M, so maybe he would use it towards possible lux tax this year? I doubt it, but who knows.
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Re: Lux Tax at $69.9mm. League says prepare for $61mm next year 

Post#139 » by InsideOut » Thu Jul 9, 2009 1:19 am

When he had the chance, it is too bad Hammond didn't go with the better opportunities to clear cap space. We could have been in great shape if the luxury tax does drop to $61 million. Teams left and right will be looking to unload guys while at the same time free agents would be getting far less. Teams with a ton of room look to be in good shape to make a killing if we indeed see a luxury tax that low.
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Re: Luxury Tax at $69.9 million 

Post#140 » by paulpressey25 » Thu Jul 9, 2009 2:29 am

GrandAdmiralDan wrote:The NBA also is taking an overly cautious and borderline insane approach and issuing an additional warning to teams that it would be prudent not to plan to the 10-11 projection of $53.6 mil salary cap and $65 mil lux tax, but rather to plan for a $50.4 mil salary cap and $61.2 mil lux tax, just in case.........That's going too far, IMO. .


I don't think they are going too far. Last fall when the financial system collapsed the world lost 30% of its wealth. Now much of that 30% was entirely paper based and a product of financial leverage, but it went away. The only thing is that for many, they didn't lose that 30% right away. Some did who had investments in the stock market in Banks and auto companies. But for many other businesses and industries, they haven't felt their entire 30% of pain yet. (we can debate the fine points of that percentage, but to me 30% feels about right give or take a little bit)

Those losses are now working their way through the system. A great deal of them still need to be realized here in the next year. For example there are large condo projects just finishing construction around the United States. The owners/backers of those projects are going to open the doors to zero demand and will take major losses. They know its coming. But the actual financial loss hasn't hit their books yet.

In that same way, pro sports are going to take a hit. Again look to the car dealers who spend massive dollars on advertising during sporting events. Or the big banks and brokerage firms who sponsor all sorts of sporting events. Or firms like Nike or Best Buy that are seeing their sales fall and with no sign of immediate recovery. All of that will result in far lower advertising and sponsorship expenditures. The only thing is that for many of those companies, they had already made their 2008-09 commitments. So the impact hasn't been completely felt yet. But it is coming.

Now will the NBA take a 30% drop in the luxury tax down to $50 million over the next couple years? Maybe not since pro sports can also be a comforting source of entertainment during a recession. Some like the NFL may do well, and individual pockets like the Brewers will continue to sell out for awhile, but the aggregate industry is going to see much reduced revenues. Just as the auto-makers and retailers are right now. It just hasn't worked its way down the food chain yet to the pro sports industry.
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