06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation

htr · Post #1201 » by **htr** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:00 am

Does anyone know who Indy really wants at 11? I guess it's possible they'd want to secure whomever it is and would ship us 11 and 17 for 8.

pasting_monkeys · Post #1202 » by **pasting_monkeys** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:08 am

This thread has had everything; intrigue, suspense, drama, projectile vomit, you name it.

Even if no draft day trades end up being made, this has been the perfect spice to an otherwise boring pre-draft period.

REDDzone · Post #1203 » by **REDDzone** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:04 am

After thinking hard about this, I'm going to go and say this isn't going to happen.

Its the perfect smokescreen in my opinion, with the Hinrich-Skiles connection, etc.

andonewheel · Post #1204 » by **andonewheel** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:12 am

htr wrote:Does anyone know who Indy really wants at 11? I guess it's possible they'd want to secure whomever it is and would ship us 11 and 17 for 8.

I'm thinking they just have two players they're targeting. I don't know why we'd want to move down and add another rookie who would probably be a backup/fringe rotation player. I expect us to draft Alexander at 8 and explore trades for CV and Mo to bring in a defensive presence that isn't available in the draft.

Simulack · Post #1205 » by **Simulack** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:35 am

Although I have no idea if this rumor is credible (and find the fact that it was passes secretly via email absolutely hilarious), my biggest fear has been that we trade for either Hinrich or Nocioni since Skiles was named coach.

Hinrich isn't very good, he's just an average PG even when you factor his defense into the equation. Everyone says "Oh, he just had a bad year" but the reality is that his season this year was pretty damn similar to what's he done for his career.

2007/2008 FG%: 41.4%
Career: 41.4%

2007/2008: 6.0 apg
Career: 6.4 apg

2007/2008: 3.3 rpg
Career: 3.5 rpg

Now the important thing to note is that Hinrich only averaged 31.7 minutes per game last season as opposed to the 35+ he averaged every other season in his career. So although his number look down, he actually had about exactly the same assist and rebound production and shot the same percentage from the field. The only thing whatsoever noticeably down was his 3pt % but even that isn't a huge difference from his career averages.

Please explain to me where the big drop off is. The only thing drastically down is his point per game average but that is only because he shot less (and played fewer mintues) which is a good thing as he has never been a particularly efficient scorer. Other than that, he was exactly the same player last year he always has been: a good defender with mediocre assist/rebound rates who is not a particularly good offensive player.

I'll be very upset if we give up anything of value for either Hinrich or Nocioni. Giving up CV and a lottery pick for Kirk would be our most asinine trade in recent memory and that is saying something.

aaprigs311 · Post #1206 » by **aaprigs311** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:44 am

This is the best thread I've encountered during my one year realgm career.

LUKE23 · Post #1207 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:45 am

Simulack wrote:Although I have no idea if this rumor is credible (and find the fact that it was passes secretly via email absolutely hilarious), my biggest fear has been that we trade for either Hinrich or Nocioni since Skiles was named coach.

Hinrich isn't very good, he's just an average PG even when you factor his defense into the equation. Everyone says "Oh, he just had a bad year" but the reality is that his season this year was pretty damn similar to what's he done for his career.

2007/2008 FG%: 41.4%
Career: 41.4%

2007/2008: 6.0 apg
Career: 6.4 apg

2007/2008: 3.3 rpg
Career: 3.5 rpg

Now the important thing to note is that Hinrich only averaged 31.7 minutes per game last season as opposed to the 35+ he averaged every other season in his career. So although his number look down, he actually had about exactly the same assist and rebound production and shot the same percentage from the field. The only thing whatsoever noticeably down was his 3pt % but even that isn't a huge difference from his career averages.

Please explain to me where the big drop off is. The only thing drastically down is his point per game average but that is only because he shot less (and played fewer mintues) which is a good thing as he has never been a particularly efficient scorer. Other than that, he was exactly the same player last year he always has been: a good defender with mediocre assist/rebound rates who is not a particularly good offensive player.

I'll be very upset if we give up anything of value for either Hinrich or Nocioni. Giving up CV and a lottery pick for Kirk would be our most asinine trade in recent memory and that is saying something.

Great post and I couldn't agree more. Some people are really overpimping Hinrich. Overall as a player, he's a very marginal upgrade over Mo Williams. You have to take both sides of the ball into account when comparing players.

This deal also leaves us with the worst bench in the NBA.

Simulack · Post #1208 » by **Simulack** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:52 am

This trade would move us even further into Knicks territory of being a lottery team whose in the extremely undesirable position of having many bad contracts while having very few desirable picks/prospects on its roster.

andonewheel · Post #1209 » by **andonewheel** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:53 am

LUKE23 wrote:
Great post and I couldn't agree more. Some people are really overpimping Hinrich. Overall as a player, he's a very marginal upgrade over Mo Williams. You have to take both sides of the ball into account when comparing players.

This deal also leaves us with the worst bench in the NBA.

x2

I don't think Hinrich is worth the 8th pick alone. I also don't see the logic in reuniting Skiles and Hinrich. If it didn't work the first time, how is it going to be better here in Milwaukee? Sounds like a terrible idea. With that being said, I don't think that rumor is even remotely accurate and was either misinformation or a total joke and the way it was handled here is really laughable. This thread must've been what I missed out on in junior high by not being a gossiping 14 year old girl.

Post #1210 » by **paulpressey25** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:54 am

I'm not for this deal in the current incarnation but I'd be fine if we did trade either 8 or CV/Dez for Hinrich.

The part we all miss on this board and can't be a part of is the interpersonal team dynamics. What takes place in practice. What takes place in the locker-room. What takes place on the court.

The PG is the head of any team. If Skiles wants to change the culture, his ability to do so is greatly improved if he has his guy running things. Hinrich at PG can then impact the other four guys. I wouldn't downplay how important that dynamic is. And what a head start it gives Skiles on working on the other four positions knowing that the PG spot is taken care of with one of his guys.

trwi7 · Post #1211 » by **trwi7** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:56 am

LUKE23 wrote:This deal also leaves us with the worst bench in the NBA.

Not only that but we trade three of our assets for a slight upgrade at best. I mean I just don't get it. Mason's expiring, Villanueva and our first are three of the very few assets that we are willing to trade. Mo may be the other and possibly Sessions but I doubt that. We've all heard Bogut and Yi are untouchable so why would we go trade three of our best assets for a slight upgrade? It makes no sense to me.

Maybe if we got a good SF out of them I could see it and then trade Mo for something else to upgrade. But we're not even getting a player at a position of need.

If this deal is on the table and Hammond does it he's not going to have very many fans at all.

Wise1 · Post #1212 » by **Wise1** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:56 am

Is Hinrich any better than the combination of Sessions and Bell?

LUKE23 · Post #1213 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:58 am

andonewheel wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:
Great post and I couldn't agree more. Some people are really overpimping Hinrich. Overall as a player, he's a very marginal upgrade over Mo Williams. You have to take both sides of the ball into account when comparing players.

This deal also leaves us with the worst bench in the NBA.

x2

I don't think Hinrich is worth the 8th pick alone. I also don't see the logic in reuniting Skiles and Hinrich. If it didn't work the first time, how is it going to be better here in Milwaukee? Sounds like a terrible idea. With that being said, I don't think that rumor is even remotely accurate and was either misinformation or a total joke and the way it was handled here is really laughable. This thread must've been what I missed out on in junior high by not being a gossiping 14 year old girl.

Agreed. Personally, I'll take Alexander and then another solid PG and bench PF in separate deals with Mo/CV/Mason over trading for Hinrich. Hinrich just doesn't excite me at all. He's not as good of a scorer as Mo and from everything we've seen, he's not as good a distributor as Sessions. We would be basically giving up three of our four trade assets just to get a PG that can defend. Yuck!

This draft is not as weak as people say. I am not about moving this pick unless we're moving up or we're making a huge deal for a star.

wichmae · Post #1214 » by **wichmae** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:59 am

Ok, so that is the last time I will ever post anything of that substance here again. Or send anything to anyone via e-mail again. I made it very clear that it wasnt supposed to end up on here or any other site. Well it did and now the person I got it from is worried.

Way to go genius...

Simulack · Post #1215 » by **Simulack** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:00 am

andonewheel wrote:This thread must've been what I missed out on in junior high by not being a gossiping 14 year old girl.

So true.

LUKE23 · Post #1216 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:01 am

Wise1 wrote:Is Hinrich any better than the combination of Sessions and Bell?

Sessions is a best creator of all of them.
Bell is as good of a defender as Hinrich.
Hinrich right now is a better scorer than both and better defender than Sessions/Mo.
Mo is a better scorer than all three and equal distributor to Hinrich.

Yay, I wrote my own Abbott and Costello routine.

Wise1 · Post #1217 » by **Wise1** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:03 am

wichmae wrote:Ok, so that is the last time I will ever post anything of that substance here again. Or send anything to anyone via e-mail again. I made it very clear that it wasnt supposed to end up on here or any other site. Well it did and now the person I got it from is worried.

Way to go genius...

Your moment of weakness was exploited.

Captain Erv · Post #1218 » by **Captain Erv** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:04 am

wichmae wrote:Ok, so that is the last time I will ever post anything of that substance here again. Or send anything to anyone via e-mail again. I made it very clear that it wasnt supposed to end up on here or any other site. Well it did and now the person I got it from is worried.

Way to go genius...

If that person is John Hammond, then yes, he should be worried. Because if he makes that trade people are going to be calling for his head after 3+ months on the job.

Simulack · Post #1219 » by **Simulack** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:04 am

trwi7 wrote:Not only that but we trade three of our assets for a slight upgrade at best.

Exactly. For a team that's been in the lottery as much as we have, our cupboard is pretty bare in terms of picks/prospects type assets. We are doing but adding another mediocre player into the mix who has a long contract.

Like I said, we are well are on way to being the Knicks if this trade does down. I guess that is quite a feat for a small market team.

This would be crazy, crazy overpayment. If the Bulls draft Rose like everyone expects them to, Hinrich's value isn't going anywhere by down. To get a lottery pick, former lottery pick whose only really played 2 NBA seasons and an expiring for him would be a massive coup for the Bulls. We are so far behind the other teams in the Central other than Indiana to begin with.

wichmae · Post #1220 » by **wichmae** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:06 am

Captain Erv wrote:
wichmae wrote:Ok, so that is the last time I will ever post anything of that substance here again. Or send anything to anyone via e-mail again. I made it very clear that it wasnt supposed to end up on here or any other site. Well it did and now the person I got it from is worried.

Way to go genius...

If that person is John Hammond, then yes, he should be worried. Because if he makes that trade people are going to be calling for his head after 3+ months on the job.

it doesnt matter who it is. Thats the point of knowing some things wheterh media or sources is that it doesnt get past the peopel you told it not to get past. I made it as clear as day that this was NOT supposed to be posted and morons started handing it out like candy.

thats the last time.