Giannis' Development

[Prez]

Despise Kidd the GM but I'm meh on Kidd the coach. Our defensive scheme has been exposed and is built to get butt****ed in today's game, but I'm going to wait until next season to hold that against him. It worked his first year, didn't this year. It's gotta be tough to completely change your defensive philosophy mid-season with such a young inexperienced roster. But if we're still getting lit up next year, then yeah, team VooDoo it is.

I really can't give Kidd a ton of credit for Giannis/Jabari/Middleton's development, I think they're just stud talents who worked crazy hard and grew up as players. Kidd had nothing to do with Jabari busting his ass every day in his rehab to come back in beastly shape. Middleton worked with Wade and whoever else on his skills and that's what led to him breaking out. Giannis' passing and ball handling is just a natural gift, you either have it or you don't (see Wiggins, Andrew). Really the only thing I can give Kidd credit for is running Giannis on-ball later on...but given how obvious it's been for so long that Giannis needs the ball in his hands to thrive, is it really anything extraordinary by Kidd?

What does Kidd actually design as far as our plays go? Sweeney is our defense, and I see Prunty designing the majority of the offense. I honestly don't think we skip a beat if we ditched Kidd and handed the team over to Prunty. We looked just fine with him when Kidd was out, for a while we even looked much smoother.

[H2tObes]

Middleton worked with Wade and whoever else on his skills and that's what led to him breaking out.

This sounded funny reading. He probably worked with his HoF head coach who clearly put a a lot of trust in him since he got here. But yeah, lets just assume Kidd had absolutely 0 to do with it.

I'm sure Kidd teaches Giannis a ton of the intricate details that go into the PG position, I mean one can only assume Kidd has a lot he wants to tell/show Giannis. Giannis being able to play PG full time didn't happen overnight, he has come a very long way in the last 2 years, his confidence has grown tremendously. I think it's probably unfair to Kidd to give him no/very little credit in the development of Giannis

[Prince12]

I don't want Kidd being the defacto GM, I don't necessarily agree with the game day coaching moves he has made to this point but I'm certain on an individual level they love him and he's been a big factor in the development of all the key players.

[Prez]

Middleton worked with Wade and whoever else on his skills and that's what led to him breaking out.

This sounded funny reading. He probably worked with his HoF head coach who clearly put a a lot of trust in him since he got here. But yeah, lets just assume Kidd had absolutely 0 to do with it.

I'm sure Kidd teaches Giannis a ton of the intricate details that go into the PG position, I mean one can only assume Kidd has a lot he wants to tell/show Giannis. Giannis being able to play PG full time didn't happen overnight, he has come a very long way in the last 2 years, his confidence has grown tremendously. I think it's probably unfair to Kidd to give him no/very little credit in the development of Giannis

No, I'm not going to attribute Middleton's massive improvements as a ballhandler and overall offensive creator to Kidd. I'm attributing it to Middleton working his ass off training his skills.

And fair enough. But I still think Giannis is just so damn talented naturally and has a history of handling the ball and playmaking even before he got to the league that it's not like Kidd has created the beast we see today like the Spurs did Kawhi where he came in without handles, without a jumpshot, pretty much an athletic glue guy and turned him into a superstar. Kidd is doing a good job guiding Giannis on the right path I guess but I'm giving Giannis' natural talent and work ethic like 80%+ of the credit for him exploding the way he has.

[RRyder823]

Despise Kidd the GM but I'm meh on Kidd the coach. Our defensive scheme has been exposed and is built to get butt****ed in today's game, but I'm going to wait until next season to hold that against him. It worked his first year, didn't this year. It's gotta be tough to completely change your defensive philosophy mid-season with such a young inexperienced roster. But if we're still getting lit up next year, then yeah, team VooDoo it is.

I really can't give Kidd a ton of credit for Giannis/Jabari/Middleton's development, I think they're just stud talents who worked crazy hard and grew up as players. Kidd had nothing to do with Jabari busting his ass every day in his rehab to come back in beastly shape. Middleton worked with Wade and whoever else on his skills and that's what led to him breaking out. Giannis' passing and ball handling is just a natural gift, you either have it or you don't (see Wiggins, Andrew). Really the only thing I can give Kidd credit for is running Giannis on-ball later on...but given how obvious it's been for so long that Giannis needs the ball in his hands to thrive, is it really anything extraordinary by Kidd?

What does Kidd actually design as far as our plays go? Sweeney is our defense, and I see Prunty designing the majority of the offense. I honestly don't think we skip a beat if we ditched Kidd and handed the team over to Prunty. We looked just fine with him when Kidd was out, for a while we even looked much smoother.

That's all well and good but then I don't want to hear anyone EVER again complain about a coach or a system stunting a players development or praising a coach for a player developing cause apparently it doesn't matter by the logic you're using.

Otherwise all that's being used is a double standard.

Honestly that argument reminds me of the of the one some people use by saying how Rodgers would've been a stud no matter where he got drafted and MM had nothing to due with his development.

[Prez]

Despise Kidd the GM but I'm meh on Kidd the coach. Our defensive scheme has been exposed and is built to get butt****ed in today's game, but I'm going to wait until next season to hold that against him. It worked his first year, didn't this year. It's gotta be tough to completely change your defensive philosophy mid-season with such a young inexperienced roster. But if we're still getting lit up next year, then yeah, team VooDoo it is.

I really can't give Kidd a ton of credit for Giannis/Jabari/Middleton's development, I think they're just stud talents who worked crazy hard and grew up as players. Kidd had nothing to do with Jabari busting his ass every day in his rehab to come back in beastly shape. Middleton worked with Wade and whoever else on his skills and that's what led to him breaking out. Giannis' passing and ball handling is just a natural gift, you either have it or you don't (see Wiggins, Andrew). Really the only thing I can give Kidd credit for is running Giannis on-ball later on...but given how obvious it's been for so long that Giannis needs the ball in his hands to thrive, is it really anything extraordinary by Kidd?

What does Kidd actually design as far as our plays go? Sweeney is our defense, and I see Prunty designing the majority of the offense. I honestly don't think we skip a beat if we ditched Kidd and handed the team over to Prunty. We looked just fine with him when Kidd was out, for a while we even looked much smoother.

That's all well and good but then I don't want to hear anyone EVER again complain about a coach or a system stunting a players development or praising a coach for a player developing cause apparently it doesn't matter by the logic you're using.

Otherwise all that's being used is a double standard.

I don't get this logic at all, just because Kidd didn't **** things up doesn't mean it's not possible to **** things up.

[H2tObes]

No, I'm not going to attribute Middleton's massive improvements as a ballhandler and overall offensive creator to Kidd. I'm attributing it to Middleton working his ass off training his skills.

So you will give credit to Wade for helping develop Middleton but not Kidd? Doesn't make sense. By this logic a coach would never help a talented player improve, they would have maximized their potential no matter what

[Prez]

No, I'm not going to attribute Middleton's massive improvements as a ballhandler and overall offensive creator to Kidd. I'm attributing it to Middleton working his ass off training his skills.

So you will give credit to Wade for helping develop Middleton but not Kidd? Doesn't make sense. By this logic a coach would never help a talented player improve, they would have maximized their potential no matter what

Wade was just an example, I'm not saying Wade worked with him all summer or anything. The point is the guys/trainers who actually worked with him on his skill work this offseason + Middleton himself is who I give credit to.

What Kidd has done with Middleton that you think he deserves a ton of credit for? Letting Middleton post up and go to work as opposed to Bayless or MCW pound the air out of the ball isn't some amazing feat of coach developing a player, it's just common sense.

[RRyder823]

Despise Kidd the GM but I'm meh on Kidd the coach. Our defensive scheme has been exposed and is built to get butt****ed in today's game, but I'm going to wait until next season to hold that against him. It worked his first year, didn't this year. It's gotta be tough to completely change your defensive philosophy mid-season with such a young inexperienced roster. But if we're still getting lit up next year, then yeah, team VooDoo it is.

I really can't give Kidd a ton of credit for Giannis/Jabari/Middleton's development, I think they're just stud talents who worked crazy hard and grew up as players. Kidd had nothing to do with Jabari busting his ass every day in his rehab to come back in beastly shape. Middleton worked with Wade and whoever else on his skills and that's what led to him breaking out. Giannis' passing and ball handling is just a natural gift, you either have it or you don't (see Wiggins, Andrew). Really the only thing I can give Kidd credit for is running Giannis on-ball later on...but given how obvious it's been for so long that Giannis needs the ball in his hands to thrive, is it really anything extraordinary by Kidd?

What does Kidd actually design as far as our plays go? Sweeney is our defense, and I see Prunty designing the majority of the offense. I honestly don't think we skip a beat if we ditched Kidd and handed the team over to Prunty. We looked just fine with him when Kidd was out, for a while we even looked much smoother.

That's all well and good but then I don't want to hear anyone EVER again complain about a coach or a system stunting a players development or praising a coach for a player developing cause apparently it doesn't matter by the logic you're using.

Otherwise all that's being used is a double standard.

I don't get this logic at all, just because Kidd didn't **** things up doesn't mean it's not possible to **** things up.

The logic that the sword swings both ways.

How bout NO coach should ever be praised for helping to develop a player then if you're going to dig in your heals?

Or is admitting to the fact that a double standard is being used to much to ask?

[imithanos]

Maybe Giannis asked to play more minutes after the LAL game and the comments from Kobe about handling the fatigue (something he mentioned again in his last interview in Greece). Who knows for sure what happens behind the walls?

[imithanos]

Despise Kidd the GM but I'm meh on Kidd the coach. Our defensive scheme has been exposed and is built to get butt****ed in today's game, but I'm going to wait until next season to hold that against him. It worked his first year, didn't this year. It's gotta be tough to completely change your defensive philosophy mid-season with such a young inexperienced roster. But if we're still getting lit up next year, then yeah, team VooDoo it is.

I really can't give Kidd a ton of credit for Giannis/Jabari/Middleton's development, I think they're just stud talents who worked crazy hard and grew up as players. Kidd had nothing to do with Jabari busting his ass every day in his rehab to come back in beastly shape. Middleton worked with Wade and whoever else on his skills and that's what led to him breaking out. Giannis' passing and ball handling is just a natural gift, you either have it or you don't (see Wiggins, Andrew). Really the only thing I can give Kidd credit for is running Giannis on-ball later on...but given how obvious it's been for so long that Giannis needs the ball in his hands to thrive, is it really anything extraordinary by Kidd?

What does Kidd actually design as far as our plays go? Sweeney is our defense, and I see Prunty designing the majority of the offense. I honestly don't think we skip a beat if we ditched Kidd and handed the team over to Prunty. We looked just fine with him when Kidd was out, for a while we even looked much smoother.

That's all well and good but then I don't want to hear anyone EVER again complain about a coach or a system stunting a players development or praising a coach for a player developing cause apparently it doesn't matter by the logic you're using.

Otherwise all that's being used is a double standard.

I don't get this logic at all, just because Kidd didn't **** things up doesn't mean it's not possible to **** things up.

First time I disagree with Milbuck. At least that much. :|

[Flight 22]

Despise Kidd the GM but I'm meh on Kidd the coach. Our defensive scheme has been exposed and is built to get butt****ed in today's game, but I'm going to wait until next season to hold that against him. It worked his first year, didn't this year. It's gotta be tough to completely change your defensive philosophy mid-season with such a young inexperienced roster. But if we're still getting lit up next year, then yeah, team VooDoo it is.

I really can't give Kidd a ton of credit for Giannis/Jabari/Middleton's development, I think they're just stud talents who worked crazy hard and grew up as players. Kidd had nothing to do with Jabari busting his ass every day in his rehab to come back in beastly shape. Middleton worked with Wade and whoever else on his skills and that's what led to him breaking out. Giannis' passing and ball handling is just a natural gift, you either have it or you don't (see Wiggins, Andrew). Really the only thing I can give Kidd credit for is running Giannis on-ball later on...but given how obvious it's been for so long that Giannis needs the ball in his hands to thrive, is it really anything extraordinary by Kidd?

What does Kidd actually design as far as our plays go? Sweeney is our defense, and I see Prunty designing the majority of the offense. I honestly don't think we skip a beat if we ditched Kidd and handed the team over to Prunty. We looked just fine with him when Kidd was out, for a while we even looked much smoother.

I agree with this statement, but how do you feel about shooting ability, is it in the same class as ball-handling? Because if so that's the only thing I see impeding Giannis from being classified as a "merely" good player and not a superstar.

[Presence]

First you get a grip and realise he's more than "merely good" and then you can repeat your question.

[Flight 22]

First you get a grip and realise he's more than "merely good" and then you can repeat your question.

Are you talking to me? Cause if so I'm higher on Giannis than 99% of the NBA fans you will ever meet.

[Presence]

You just called him "merely good", what does the other 99% think?

[Prez]

Despise Kidd the GM but I'm meh on Kidd the coach. Our defensive scheme has been exposed and is built to get butt****ed in today's game, but I'm going to wait until next season to hold that against him. It worked his first year, didn't this year. It's gotta be tough to completely change your defensive philosophy mid-season with such a young inexperienced roster. But if we're still getting lit up next year, then yeah, team VooDoo it is.

I really can't give Kidd a ton of credit for Giannis/Jabari/Middleton's development, I think they're just stud talents who worked crazy hard and grew up as players. Kidd had nothing to do with Jabari busting his ass every day in his rehab to come back in beastly shape. Middleton worked with Wade and whoever else on his skills and that's what led to him breaking out. Giannis' passing and ball handling is just a natural gift, you either have it or you don't (see Wiggins, Andrew). Really the only thing I can give Kidd credit for is running Giannis on-ball later on...but given how obvious it's been for so long that Giannis needs the ball in his hands to thrive, is it really anything extraordinary by Kidd?

What does Kidd actually design as far as our plays go? Sweeney is our defense, and I see Prunty designing the majority of the offense. I honestly don't think we skip a beat if we ditched Kidd and handed the team over to Prunty. We looked just fine with him when Kidd was out, for a while we even looked much smoother.

I agree with this statement, but how do you feel about shooting ability, is it in the same class as ball-handling? Because if so that's the only thing I see impeding Giannis from being classified as a "merely" good player and not a superstar.

For me the general thing to me is just feel for the basketball, hand eye coordination, touch, fluidity, etc. While shooting requires touch to become great at, imo it's more mechanical a skill than ball handling, you can develop proper form and refine it with constant repetition. Whereas with ball handling you can do as many drills as possible but on court it's something that constantly changes, there's so many different things to it that I think it requires a lot more natural feel than pure shooting. Assuming the player in question doesn't have an awful, completely broken shooting form like MKG coming into the league, imo it's easier to go from a bad shooter to a good shooter than to go from a bad ball handler to good ball handler. Work ethic can trump all of this though, if you work hard enough anything can happen.

I think Giannis will become a fine shooter in time. The problem with him is his confidence, when he's shooting with little confidence his form suffers...slow release, too much arc, just uncomfortable. But when he's letting it fly with purpose it legitimately looks great, he was shooting with confidence to end the season and over the last month he shot like 34% from 3PT on about the same attempts as Wiggins averaged for the season. He was even hotter in the last 10, 42% on almost 3 attempts a game.

[Flight 22]

You just called him "merely good", what does the other 99% think?

Why are you trying to start an argument? I think Giannis has the potential to be the best player in the league.

[DrWood]

How (90% of) development works in the NBA:
Coach: Take the ball and do something with it.
Player: OK.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but the big thing the coach can do is giving the player an opportunity.

[Shaffty]

Giannis' last 10 games he shot 42% from 3 on 2.6 attempts a game

[karson39]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SahI_9txnI0[/youtube]