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Griffin fired!- Doc Hired - Joerger likely on his way

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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1221 » by old skool » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:19 pm

LISTEN2JAZZ wrote:I can't be excited about this change because it's still a downgrade from the coach we should not have fired over the summer.


The Bucks lost 6 of the last 7 playoff games they played under Budenholzer. In several of those games the Bucks were leading throughout and had healthy leads going into the 4th quarter. Bud's system was great in the RS. Awesome. Not so much in the playoffs. He was a good coach with a good system, but against top competition it was overly reliant on spectacular individual performances, the luck of positive 3 point variances, and was prone to losing to reliable opposing offenses.

If Budenholzer had been retained, virtually no level of success would have been good enough this regular season to erase the doubts that would be in the back of everyone's mind. Would the team again collapse in the playoffs? Were they contenders or pretenders?

That all made it imperative to move in a new direction. Griffin was part of that, not just with schemes and in game adjustments, but also youth development and rotations. The Bucks went all in on the role player youth movement. Griffin was hired to implement that youth movement, but proved incapable of managing the overall system in 43 games. It might be unreasonable to expect Rivers, or Atkinson or some other veteran coach to put Humpty Dumpty back together this season. But that is no more unreasonable than expecting Griffin to suddenly get the machine to run smoothly or expecting Budenholzer to make the changes necessary to avoid his nearly annual post season fiasco.

Budenholzer was a warm and fuzzy that we have all missed for the last 43 games, but he looked very much like the coach that would again end up with post season disappointment. I think the Bucks are better off aiming higher.
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1222 » by jimmybones » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:21 pm

Minor note in the grand scheme of things but I’ll be curious to see how Doc chooses to use or not use AJJ, Marjon and Green
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1223 » by JayMKE » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:25 pm

Budenholzer not responsible for Giannis and Middleton being hurt in those last 2 series, Jrue theoretically should have been our best defender on Jimmy but he get Bledsoe'd. His system needed some adjustments but I think acquiring Dame would have changed things a lot, bet Bud's offense looks a lot more dynamic & less random with Dame at the helm. Giannis & Dame work without any system on offense, I couldn't fathom a scenario where we'd be worse off with Bud than we are now. Doc was the guy you'd want Bud to match up with in a playoff series, now it looks like we got to get past Spoelstra or Nurse for sure.
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1224 » by SirChurros » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:26 pm

jimmybones wrote:Minor note in the grand scheme of things but I’ll be curious to see how Doc chooses to use or not use AJJ, Marjon and Green

I have an inkling that he might try to turn Green into Redick. Which would be great.
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1225 » by Ron Swanson » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:38 pm

If you wanna feel better about Doc's ability to maximize roster talent, the 2018-19 Clips are probably the best example I can come up with. That team had no business being a Top-10 offense, and then taking the Steph/KD Warriors to 6-games. And hell, I'll say it. This is the most talented roster he's ever had to work with. 2008 Celtics included.
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1226 » by tedbrogen » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:38 pm

Krispy Kreme wrote:
jimmybones wrote:Minor note in the grand scheme of things but I’ll be curious to see how Doc chooses to use or not use AJJ, Marjon and Green

I have an inkling that he might try to turn Green into Redick. Which would be great.


This would massively help the issues they have with the bench cratering because it got to the point that the only bench offense was Portis ISO post ups.

We know the starters are already good. They are 30-13 based on the offensive talent of the starters alone. They just need to cobble together a bench that doesn’t collapse. Between Dre, Jae, Marjon, Green, Portis, and whatever they can trade Pat/POR2nd for, it doesn’t seem like an impossible task. Especially when you can always have one of Giannis/Dame/Midds out there with the bench guys.
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1227 » by yannisk » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:39 pm

who created that poll Griff or Doc? He is responsible for this mesh, it is a known fact Horst uses this board for ideas and he thought these were the only options
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1228 » by MickeyDavis » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:43 pm

Yes a real GM gets his ideas from realgm
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1229 » by tedbrogen » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:44 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:If you wanna feel better about Doc's ability to maximize roster talent, the 2018-19 Clips are probably the best example I can come up with. That team had no business being a Top-10 offense, and then taking the Steph/KD Warriors to 6-games. And hell, I'll say it. This is the most talented roster he's ever had to work with. 2008 Celtics included.


It’s so wild to me that Doc takes all the blame for blowing 3-1 series leads and game sevens, but none of the credit for getting those teams to those leads and those game sevens.

Somehow the players got him those series leads and got them to those game seven and then Doc single-handedly lost those all those games himself.

Somehow this awful coach who is going to tank the Bucks title window beat Kobe/Phil in the finals.
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1230 » by Badgerlander » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:45 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:Luxury tax bill alone this year is approaching $60 million. Edens/Haslam will not hesitate to eat another coaching contract this summer if it's necessary.


Ive thought that Doc would be a good face of the franchise PBO guy with his milwaukee ties, so if he struggles at playoff time the could bump him to the front office
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1231 » by mlloyd10 » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:46 pm

Curious to see if this move changes how we approach the trade deadline?
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1232 » by rj_dio » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:46 pm



Strange article to break 17.5 years of lurking with.

Anyhow, I humbly present you with your first And 1! Enjoy!
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1233 » by yannisk » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:46 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:Yes a real GM gets his ideas from realgm


you thought I was serious?
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1234 » by tedbrogen » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:47 pm

Bud’s playoff coaching record without having Giannis: 19-25
Doc’s playoff coaching record without having Giannis: 111-104

And yeah, I’m saying Giannis is easily better than anyone Doc has coached.
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1235 » by rilamann » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:48 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
rilamann wrote:But I feel like the people who think that Doc is some horrible, awful NBA head coach are the type of people who just go along with the popular narrative and either don't think for themselves because they don't want to or are incapable of thinking for themselves. The type of people who can't distinguish the difference between preconception and reality.


Doc is the Mike McCarthy of NBA coaches, to use your yardstick.

That said, we needed Mike McCarthy here. Badly.


And if we use that same yardstick, Bud & Doc are the exact same guy as well.

If you look the final results and records if you want to compare Doc & McCarthy, they are similar. I won't/can't argue with you on that.

But basketball is a lot of different than football in that in basketball all it takes is for 1 of your top 3 guys to choke and you're doomed. Like I said, I take Doc's playoff close-out record with a grain of salt when you consider the guys he has coached.

I would have loved to seen Phil Jackson's record in close-out games if he coached a team where Ben Simmons was his #2 guy. Or #1 guy was CP3.

What Brook Lopez is to you, Doc Rivers kind of is to me. Doc is always a guy I liked and have stuck up for and now he's coaching our team. So now I get to find if I was right this whole time, or if it really was all Doc's fault that he couldn't close out games with guys like Ben Simmons and James Harden as his top players.

What we can't argue is that Doc has continuously put a lot of teams in great positions, those teams just couldn't close the deal.

With Giannis & Dame as his best players, we now get to find out how much of that was on Doc.
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1236 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:49 pm

tedbrogen wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:If you wanna feel better about Doc's ability to maximize roster talent, the 2018-19 Clips are probably the best example I can come up with. That team had no business being a Top-10 offense, and then taking the Steph/KD Warriors to 6-games. And hell, I'll say it. This is the most talented roster he's ever had to work with. 2008 Celtics included.


It’s so wild to me that Doc takes all the blame for blowing 3-1 series leads and game sevens, but none of the credit for getting those teams to those leads and those game sevens.

Somehow the players got him those series leads and got them to those game seven and then Doc single-handedly lost those all those games himself.

Somehow this awful coach who is going to tank the Bucks title window beat Kobe/Phil in the finals.


the guys on those teams choked everywhere they went after rivers too.

he won with the one roster he was supposed to and he failed with the rosters that had no business winning on that level to begin with

i feel pretty good that if we have the talent to win a championship rivers isnt going to overtly sabotage it
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1237 » by MickeyDavis » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:52 pm

yannisk wrote:
MickeyDavis wrote:Yes a real GM gets his ideas from realgm


you thought I was serious?

You thought I was? 8-)
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1238 » by rilamann » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:53 pm

tedbrogen wrote:Bud’s playoff coaching record without having Giannis: 19-25
Doc’s playoff coaching record without having Giannis: 111-104

And yeah, I’m saying Giannis is easily better than anyone Doc has coached.


Last season, Doc had a 3-2 series lead on a Boston team that would have absolutely smoked us.

Sure, the Sixers couldn't close the deal. But that was mostly because Harden & Embiid decided to combine for a total of 24 points in game 7.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that Giannis & Dame will combine for more than 24 points if the Bucks play a game 7 this season.
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1239 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:54 pm

Three things I expect to see:

1. Lillard becoming by far the primary ball handler on non-transition possessions
2. Far higher percentage of halfcourt possessions beginning with GA screening for Dame
3. GA and Lopez camping in the post on defense to get back to an elite defensive rebounding and paint defensive team

Let’s turn our 2nd ranked offense into by far the best in the league and get our defense at least up to league average.
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired 

Post#1240 » by Ron Swanson » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:57 pm

Good point that our clutch stats and record is probably the perfect antidote for Doc's biggest playoff flaw. He certainly deserves blame for being part of those up 3-1 or 3-2 collapses, but just look at Harden and Embiid last year in the last two games vs. Boston:

Harden:

13/9/7 on 36% TS and 5 turnovers
9/7/6 on 38% TS and 5 turnovers

Embiid:

26/10/1 on 57% TS with 4 turnovers
15/8/1 on 36% TS with 4 turnovers

Brutal

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