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-Jragon- wrote:#1 focus right now should be... use Dame early to get other teams bigs in foul trouble so they can't hack Giannis later... then let Giannis (and maybe Brook/Portis if they will take it in strong) feast inside on softer D without said bigs having extra fouls to use (or they will be sitting)
Ron Swanson wrote:Kenny Atkinson has the Cavs at 11-0 with the best net-rating in basketball, and Bud has the Suns clicking with the same aging core that looked like a play-in team the last couple seasons. All this crap about blaming Dame, ret-conning Jrue's playoff history with us, finding a new scapegoat every season (but Beasley was totally the problem last year!!) is just a giant distraction from the fact that this franchise is getting perhaps the most immediate and jarring comeuppance of NBA coaching karma in recent history.
-Jragon- wrote:JayMKE wrote:-Jragon- wrote:
Bad take... if you keep getting the ball back to him possessions will usually end with FTs or and 1's ..maybe even 3 FTs or 4 point plays instead of dumb brick 2s and that is a winning brand of basketball.
This will also frustrate other teams and get them in foul trouble thereby making it easier for Giannis since they can't hack him... more dunks
It seems like more & more people have gravitated to my "bad take" since arriving there earlier than most others, the fit fundamentally doesn't work and Dame just isn't a winning player regardless of how you extrapolate his efficiency stats as meaning he needs the ball even more. If he got traded then he wouldn't win there either. Bucks would be better with Jrue because he moves the ball and play defense and is actually better at catch & shoot. The reality is the guy has never once looked like he's wanted to be here on or off the court.
Put a good defensive team around Giannis and both sides of the ball will improve, with Dame we've gone backwards on defense and inexplicably offense as well.
Bud was a master at using guys for what their strengths ARE not what they should be... forcing Dame to be off-ball is an exercise of faulty decision making ... Doc, Giannis and anyone else that's forcing that
JayMKE wrote:-Jragon- wrote:JayMKE wrote:
It seems like more & more people have gravitated to my "bad take" since arriving there earlier than most others, the fit fundamentally doesn't work and Dame just isn't a winning player regardless of how you extrapolate his efficiency stats as meaning he needs the ball even more. If he got traded then he wouldn't win there either. Bucks would be better with Jrue because he moves the ball and play defense and is actually better at catch & shoot. The reality is the guy has never once looked like he's wanted to be here on or off the court.
Put a good defensive team around Giannis and both sides of the ball will improve, with Dame we've gone backwards on defense and inexplicably offense as well.
Bud was a master at using guys for what their strengths ARE not what they should be... forcing Dame to be off-ball is an exercise of faulty decision making ... Doc, Giannis and anyone else that's forcing that
I agree but that's why I think moving him for a better fit is imperative, that & his age + insane salary. He's not a guy we can build around going forward or expect to improve in any way.
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:dame needs to be the pg and giannis needs to be top 20 in ppg because it just happens.... he needs to go back to the old days and be top 20 in rpg, apg, bpg, and spg because he prioritizes it again.
we dont need giannis running point so he can lead the league in scoring ffs. we need him to lead a top 10 defense and dame to lead a top 10 offense. they are good enough that if they both took on those singular challenges(and doc was worth a **** on the rest of it)... we wouldnt be in this spot
Most teams don't have 3 superstars yet alone two. Boston has one in Tatum and Brown is close to being one.-Jragon- wrote:JayMKE wrote:-Jragon- wrote:
Bud was a master at using guys for what their strengths ARE not what they should be... forcing Dame to be off-ball is an exercise of faulty decision making ... Doc, Giannis and anyone else that's forcing that
I agree but that's why I think moving him for a better fit is imperative, that & his age + insane salary. He's not a guy we can build around going forward or expect to improve in any way.
With other winning teams having 2-3 superstars and 3/D athletes around them, Dame is exactly what we need. These 3/D guys have to do their job and the rest of our team needs to learn to how play efficient basketball... layups, dunks, draw fouls, open 3s... stop settling for trash shots that kill our momentum.. we had a chance to win most of these games.
LUKE23 wrote:The NBA trade deadline is still almost 3 months away. I'm making a coaching change before I'm overhauling the roster. If it is still a mess in early February, then yes, it's time to revamp.
Missing Middleton is missing the middleman between Dame and GA. The trio had a crazy good net rating last year despite the coaching issues. We need to see a good 15-20 game stretch with those three on the court again. That, along with the fact that we are already 6 games under .500, is why it's paramount Middleton gets back soon.
raferfenix wrote:GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:dame needs to be the pg and giannis needs to be top 20 in ppg because it just happens.... he needs to go back to the old days and be top 20 in rpg, apg, bpg, and spg because he prioritizes it again.
we dont need giannis running point so he can lead the league in scoring ffs. we need him to lead a top 10 defense and dame to lead a top 10 offense. they are good enough that if they both took on those singular challenges(and doc was worth a **** on the rest of it)... we wouldnt be in this spot
Giannis needs a light to go on about this stuff for this team to stand a chance.
KG did it in Boston. And Doc being able to coach superstars even in uncomfortable situations is the whole point of having him so...yeah.
But even then I could see Giannis requiring a Bucks-era PJ Tucker style leader on the court barking at him.
LUKE23 wrote:The NBA trade deadline is still almost 3 months away. I'm making a coaching change before I'm overhauling the roster. If it is still a mess in early February, then yes, it's time to revamp.
Missing Middleton is missing the middleman between Dame and GA. The trio had a crazy good net rating last year despite the coaching issues. We need to see a good 15-20 game stretch with those three on the court again. That, along with the fact that we are already 6 games under .500, is why it's paramount Middleton gets back soon.
Right now Giannis kinda looks like a “good stats, bad team” guy. That’s not who he is, of course. He’s a two-time MVP and a champion. But the mere thought should be viewed as a sin that almost everyone in the Bucks organization (Giannis included) is held accountable for. He’s averaging an efficient 31 points, 12 boards, and five assists per game. All of it’s necessary on an old, injured roster that was manifested by the constant pressure Antetokounmpo has put on Milwaukee’s front office. The Bucks are 2-8 and rank 28th in assist rate, with an offense that isn’t generating quality shots and a defense that’s exposed at the point of attack.
On the court, in between spells of pure dominance, Antetokounmpo occasionally makes plays that aren’t necessarily conducive to winning basketball. They aren’t selfish, per se, but carry the weight of a man who feels overburdened enough to think he must conquer the world on his own.
-Jragon- wrote:ShootingtheJ wrote:nagawicka wrote:Just once in his career, I'd like to see Giannis play as though there's a PG on the floor with him who is playing point guard.
See how those two things are not the same.
Too bad we'll never know if he can do it, since Dame isn't a PG, and he can't hit a 3 off the catch.
Better way to put it is that possessions should go: Dame, Giannis, Dame, screen, Khris, alley oop to Giannis... not Dame, teammate, teammate, long stupid 2 pointer.. you have a superstar that hits 90% of his FTs and gets their at a top 10 rate.. you don't have to set Dame up for shots
.. you let him set you up for easy shots.. and when you don't have a dunk, layup or wide open 3 then give him the ball back and see what happens
JayMKE wrote:My idea isn't taking Dame off the ball, its taking him off the TEAM which has the added benefit of extending our window and saving a boatload of money. Send Dame to a place where he wants to be and can have the ball as much as he wants, the Bucks will be a better team for it. The fact you guys can't grasp that this is a better team with Jrue rather than Dame is mind boggling. Giannis and Dame are who they are, find the fit that works. Dame makes the team worse on defense AND offense, this idea that Giannis just needs to take a step back on offense will somehow improve the bad defense is nonsensical. We can't have 1 guy who plays all the defense and 1 guy who plays all the offense, its a dumb way to build a team and why we look bad on both sides of the ball now.
also Dame is a bad creator, Giannis and Khris are both significantly better at creating for others. More Dame ball pounding would just mean more shots for Dame and less for everybody else. He is not in any way other than height a point guard.
One of the biggest issues for Milwaukee has been the lack of depth behind their two-star players. Both Damian Lillard and Giannis Antetokounmpo have played well but the rest of the roster has been a problem.
Execution in games has also been an issue for the Bucks. This directly points back toward the coaching staff and could see Milwaukee making a change.
While it's unlikely for the Bucks to move on from Doc Rivers in the short term, if Milwaukee continues to drop games, something may have to be done. The Bucks could let Rivers go and promote assistant head coach Darvin Ham to fill his spot.
Ham is a popular figure within the Bucks, especially with Antetokounmpo. He was a big reason why Ham returned to the Bucks this past offseason after he was fired from the Los Angeles Lakers.
Especially with all the trade speculation regarding Antetokounmpo going around, it could behoove Milwaukee to promote their star's choice. Antetokounmpo may still believe in Rivers but his frustrations have seemed to increase of late.
Some have speculated that Ham's return to Milwaukee could serve as a waiting period for him. He would wait out Rivers and then take over as the leading man.
With his experience as a head coach in the NBA already, Milwaukee wouldn't just be hiring a first-time head coach for a title-contending team. Ham did have his share of mistakes with the Lakers and by the end of his tenure in Los Angeles, many fans were happy to see him go.
But he is a players' coach and someone who may be able to help change the tune of this team. Rivers is still the leading man but it seems that unless Milwaukee can turn things around, changes will be made.
emunney wrote:LUKE23 wrote:The NBA trade deadline is still almost 3 months away. I'm making a coaching change before I'm overhauling the roster. If it is still a mess in early February, then yes, it's time to revamp.
Missing Middleton is missing the middleman between Dame and GA. The trio had a crazy good net rating last year despite the coaching issues. We need to see a good 15-20 game stretch with those three on the court again. That, along with the fact that we are already 6 games under .500, is why it's paramount Middleton gets back soon.
Who are we going to get to coach the team at this point? If we fire Doc at any point this season, we'd have fired 3 coaches in 2 years, one of whom was one of the league's better regarded assistants and is now out of the league, and two of whom have rings. How could you expect to be supported in doing your job?
Don't read this as a defense of Doc. I just think we're painted in a corner and am even skeptical of the interim idea as I could see Doc's guys turning it down. It'd be Prunty building a staff on the fly.
On top of that, I think Doc is more of a manager than a coach. He's like a Rick Rubin. He's not writing the songs. He's just telling them when it sounds right and when it doesn't.