ATL - Kyrie Dealt to Boston for IT, Crowder, Nets pick, etc Pg 87

Post #1261 » by **Prez** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:56 am

I’m not going to accuse LeBron of such a thing. I don’t know that to be true at all. But I know that’s what Kyrie Irving believes.

Gonna wait for more than the beliefs of a guy who also believes the world is flat.

Baddy Chuck · Post #1262 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:04 am

Couple days later and I would still do just about anything reasonable to get him.

engelmartin · Post #1263 » by **engelmartin** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:05 am

Prez wrote:
I’m not going to accuse LeBron of such a thing. I don’t know that to be true at all. But I know that’s what Kyrie Irving believes.
Gonna wait for more than the beliefs of a guy who also believes the world is flat.

Please keep politics and religion out.

Thx
Pp25

Garden Of Edens · Post #1264 » by **Garden Of Edens** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:52 am

If I were the Spurs, I'd trade Mills, Parker and Green for Kyrie and Sumpert

mattg · Post #1265 » by **mattg** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:30 am

MiltownHawkeye wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Kyrie consistently performing at an elite level in the postseason and in clutch situations, while still having to deal with people questioning how much he contributes to winning basketball, is one of the most confusing criticisms/narratives.

Like Porzingis, if you can get him without gutting your team, then you do it.

What do you define as "gutting your team?" Because that's what I think you're doing by trading Brogdon and Middleton for him.

I hate the "winning basketball" stuff because it tends to be so heavily influenced by the circumstances you're in. You get so many more chances to prove you have a "clutch gene" when you're on the dominant team in the conference. Just because Kyrie's fortunate enough to play with LeBron doesn't automatically mean he has some clutch gene that the other, less fortunate guys don't.

In terms of clutchness, you do realize that kyrie before lebron arrived was statistically the best player in the entire NBA in clutch situations right? Teaming with lebron gave him the opportunity to show that on the biggest of stages, but he's performed remarkably well in clutch scenarios his entire career completely independent of lebron.

Not remotely interested in arguing with anyone who brings up kyrie losing as a 19-22 year old kid on garbage teams. I'd like to see the list of players that age in league history who elevated rosters with no talent on them to winners. Just like I have no interest in hearing about how Giannis doesnt contribute to winning basketball as he racked up losses during that age period as well.

AussieBuck · Post #1266 » by **AussieBuck** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:40 am

Cavs wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs this season without LeBron

mattg · Post #1267 » by **mattg** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:52 am

AussieBuck wrote:Cavs wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs this season without LeBron

I don't think anyone is disputing that. That doesn't make a player bad because he isn't singlehandedly capable of carrying a team to the playoffs. Just like if Middleton was our best player we would be on track for 25 wins, but no one would be saying the guy sucks or doesnt contribute to winning basketball. They'd be thinking of ways we could add additional players to compensate for his weaknesses and deficiencies.

neiLz · Post #1268 » by **neiLz** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:57 am

mattg wrote:
MiltownHawkeye wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Kyrie consistently performing at an elite level in the postseason and in clutch situations, while still having to deal with people questioning how much he contributes to winning basketball, is one of the most confusing criticisms/narratives.

Like Porzingis, if you can get him without gutting your team, then you do it.

What do you define as "gutting your team?" Because that's what I think you're doing by trading Brogdon and Middleton for him.

I hate the "winning basketball" stuff because it tends to be so heavily influenced by the circumstances you're in. You get so many more chances to prove you have a "clutch gene" when you're on the dominant team in the conference. Just because Kyrie's fortunate enough to play with LeBron doesn't automatically mean he has some clutch gene that the other, less fortunate guys don't.

In terms of clutchness, you do realize that kyrie before lebron arrived was statistically the best player in the entire NBA in clutch situations right? Teaming with lebron gave him the opportunity to show that on the biggest of stages, but he's performed remarkably well in clutch scenarios his entire career completely independent of lebron.

Not remotely interested in arguing with anyone who brings up kyrie losing as a 19-22 year old kid on garbage teams. I'd like to see the list of players that age in league history who elevated rosters with no talent on them to winners. Just like I have no interest in hearing about how Giannis doesnt contribute to winning basketball as he racked up losses during that age period as well.

The whole clutch thing is moot. I want players that put the team in position for clutch situations. I'm not sure kyrie gets you in those situations. There's a large sample size and record that shows how the cavs performed when lebron is off the court and kyrie is on. Heck even the year the cavs won wasn't their best rated lineup with delly in instead of kyrie? I'm not saying delly is anywhere close to kyrie. But there is some evidence that shows kyrie may be a net negative if he's going to be a star of the team. If he were to become a buck I don't think hed want to be second to giannis.

Fotis St · Post #1269 » by **Fotis St** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:18 am

For the Kyrie doubters ... just to let you know ... the NBA players clearly voted him the best guard in the East

trwi7 · Post #1270 » by **trwi7** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:20 am

Fotis St wrote:For the Kyrie doubters ... just to let you know ... the NBA players clearly voted him the best guard in the East

This is like when you said Jabari is a top 50 player and better than Paul George because of his fantasy stats.

Fotis St · Post #1271 » by **Fotis St** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:24 am

Jabari was indeed top 50 player. It is fantasy league, NOT fantasy stats.

Stats are true.

Jabari's offense was really efficient.

FlagsFlyForever · Post #1272 » by **FlagsFlyForever** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:25 am

Fotis St wrote:For the Kyrie doubters ... just to let you know ... the NBA players clearly voted him the best guard in the East

Nobody is disputing that he's popular. He's the most popular guard in the East and probably the second most popular player. But citing a poll that also ranks Dwyane Wade as the 6th best guard, Derrick Rose as the 9th best guard, and Delly as the 15th best guard in the East isn't strong evidence of anything.

Profound23 · Post #1273 » by **Profound23** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:26 am

AussieBuck wrote:Cavs wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs this season without LeBron

Doubt that. In the East they are competing with us for the 5th-6th seed at the very least.

Post #1274 » by **Prez** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:29 am

Think Kyrie is overrated in terms of actual impact vs reputation around the league, but the 'not a winning player' stuff is silly. He's a stud. The big thing for me is how much extra value you have to give up beyond the difference he makes, in order to match his name/reputation. I think there's a good chance what you give up, he doesn't fully make up on court, even if he's a really damn good player.

One reason I'd be willing to overlook that is I think he and Giannis would be a game changer in the way this team is looked at by major FAs. Just like how Butler is making Minnesota a legit FA target alongside KAT.

Fotis St · Post #1275 » by **Fotis St** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:30 am

ElPeregrino wrote:Nobody is disputing that he's popular. He's the most popular guard in the East and probably the second most popular player. But citing a poll that also ranks Dwyane Wade as the 6th best guard, Derrick Rose as the 9th best guard, and Delly as the 15th best guard in the East isn't strong evidence of anything.

C'mon, just look at the difference between Kyrie's votes and the others you mentioned

I believe it is "first hand experience" , not popularity.

worthlessBucks · Post #1276 » by **worthlessBucks** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:38 am

The leaks about the situation and the personalities/egos involved really make me appreciate the humble and grateful people more.

I hope the Cavs do send him to Siberia.

Tfence92 · Post #1277 » by **Tfence92** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:31 am

RRyder823 wrote:
ElPeregrino wrote:
milwaukee bunks wrote:
Giannis lost 49.5 games per year since being drafted, Kyrie pre-Lebron is at 50.5, young guys on bad teams lose.

Since LeBron rejoined Cleveland, the Cavs are 4-13 when Kyrie plays and LeBron doesn't play. When LeBron plays and Kyrie doesn't play, the Cavs are 25-12 (a better winning percentage than when Kyrie does play).

In the 2015 ECF against Atlanta, Kyrie missed two games and played just 12 minutes in another game. The Cavs went 3-0 in those games. In the 2015 Finals, Kyrie played 44 minutes in Game 1 against Golden State and Cleveland lost that game. Kyrie didn't play another game that series and Cleveland still took Golden State to 6 games (also without Love).

And if Rodgers goes down the Packers would win like 3-4 games. Does that mean Jordy and others aren't Pro Bowlers or that everyone of those guys is overrated? Apples and Oranges yes but teams with a truly great player become overly dependent on them despite other talent on the roster.

I'm not saying Kyrie would be my first choice to build a team around. Just that the notion that he isn't a "winning basketball" player. Probably because they're many of the same arguments I read/heard about Kobe after Shaq left. No he's not Kobe. But if a player wins while playing a vital role then there's no argument to be had anymore.

Argue situation if you want. (Then again many around these parts already have Giannis penciled in to take Lebron torch so situation should be similar). Argue that he's better suited to being a #2 option on a Championship team rather then a #1.(Although much like the previous point we still have Giannis). But acting like a team can't win with Kyrie is simply not true and has been proven not to be true because he's actually won

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What has he actually won exactly?

Fotis St · Post #1278 » by **Fotis St** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:03 am

Tfence92 wrote:
What has he actually won exactly?

The respect of all NBA players,coaches,fans.

AussieBuck · Post #1279 » by **AussieBuck** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:17 am

mattg wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:Cavs wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs this season without LeBron

I don't think anyone is disputing that. That doesn't make a player bad because he isn't singlehandedly capable of carrying a team to the playoffs. Just like if Middleton was our best player we would be on track for 25 wins, but no one would be saying the guy sucks or doesnt contribute to winning basketball. They'd be thinking of ways we could add additional players to compensate for his weaknesses and deficiencies.

I've never said he's bad or sucks but he'd be the second best player on a team watching the playoffs. I mention this because ITT he's being called a superstar when in reality he isn't in that galaxy.

drone3 · Post #1280 » by **drone3** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:18 am

Just got back from swimming with the whale sharks in Ningaloo Reef what in the world is going on?

Seems like Kyrie would prefer to play under Pop rather than coach LeBron.

Kyrie is one of my favourite players in the league would love him on the Bucks with Giannis

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