Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE)

[Jstock12]

The guy with zero vision leads the league in assists.

Give me a whole team of guys with zero vision like this: https://streamable.com/wvdon

In fairness, he dominates the ball for Indy. He's 5th in the league in time of possession per game. They basically just spam pick and rolls with him. Still, he's played really well from what I've watched considering the roster around him. They desperately need shooting at the SG and SF positions.

Yeah, but him and Sabonis are a great PnR duo, so it makes sense to abuse it.

Couple more:
https://streamable.com/gpa4n
https://streamable.com/6t899

[bucksfansince88]

Give me a whole team of guys with zero vision like this: https://streamable.com/wvdon

In fairness, he dominates the ball for Indy. He's 5th in the league in time of possession per game. They basically just spam pick and rolls with him. Still, he's played really well from what I've watched considering the roster around him. They desperately need shooting at the SG and SF positions.

Yeah, but him and Sabonis are a great PnR duo, so it makes sense to abuse it.

Couple more:
https://streamable.com/gpa4n
https://streamable.com/6t899

Pisses me off so bad that we chose bled and Khris over him smh

[paulpressey25]

What kind of math is that? Our luxury tax bill this year wouldn't have been that bad. It would have been a reasonable amount given that we came into the season with the #1 projected wins on the year. How many title teams have not been tax teams? Ridiculous.

Very rough numbers because none of us have the time anymore to do this stuff. GAD can edit this where incorrect.

Bucks rough payroll is $130.5
Luxury tax is $132mm

If they keep Brogdon, they don't have the cap space to sign George Hill (but do most the other guys). So take Hill's contract ($9.1mm) off and you're left with $121.4mm. Add in Brogdon's $21mm

Total payroll = $142.4 million. $10mm over luxury tax:

First $5mm = $7.5mm tax
Next $5mm = $8.75mm tax
Loss of shared revenue (since over tax- 50% of lux tax divided among non-tax paying teams) = $6mm (complete guesstimate on my part but likely close)

So Brodgon would cost about another $22mm this year, making him a $43 million dollar decision.

Based on rising salaries and a Giannis supermax, quite likely that Brogdon's entire $21mm is over the tax line in subsequent years.
First $5mm = $7.5mm
Next $5mm = 8.75mm
Next $5mm = $12.5mm
Next $5mm = $16.25mm
Next $1mm = $3.75mm

So Brogdon's tax is $48.75mm per year plus loss of revenue sharing ($6mm??). Add in his $21mm salary an we're talking a $75 million a year decision

Repeater Tax: If Brogdon's $21mm is in a repeater tax year, the tax on it would be $69.75mm plus loss of shared revenue ($6mm). So now Brogdon becomes a $96 million dollar a year player.

Could the Bucks work around their roster in future years to minimize tax impact? Sure. But no matter how you cut it, keeping both Brogdon and Middleton was going to cost them $100's of millions all things being equal.

[bucksfansince88]

What kind of math is that? Our luxury tax bill this year wouldn't have been that bad. It would have been a reasonable amount given that we came into the season with the #1 projected wins on the year. How many title teams have not been tax teams? Ridiculous.

Very rough numbers because none of us have the time anymore to do this stuff. GAD can edit this where incorrect.

Bucks rough payroll is $130.5
Luxury tax is $132mm

If they keep Brogdon, they don't have the cap space to sign George Hill (but do most the other guys). So take Hill's contract ($9.1mm) off and you're left with $121.4mm. Add in Brogdon's $21mm

Total payroll = $142.4 million. $10mm over luxury tax:

First $5mm = $7.5mm tax
Next $5mm = $8.75mm tax
Loss of shared revenue (since over tax- 50% of lux tax divided among non-tax paying teams) = $6mm (complete guesstimate on my part but likely close)

So Brodgon would cost about another $22mm this year, making him a $44 million dollar decision.

Based on rising salaries and a Giannis supermax, quite likely that Brogdon's entire $21mm is over the tax line in subsequent years.
First $5mm = $7.5mm
Next $5mm = 8.75mm
Next $5mm = $12.5mm
Next $5mm = $16.25mm
Next $1mm = $3.75mm

So Brogdon's tax is $48.75mm per year plus loss of revenue sharing ($6mm??). Add in his $21mm salary an we're talking a $75 million a year decision

Repeater Tax: If Brogdon's $21mm is in a repeater tax year, the tax on it would be $69.75mm plus loss of shared revenue ($6mm). So now Brogdon becomes a $96 million dollar a year player.

Could the Bucks work around their roster in future years to minimize tax impact? Sure. But no matter how you cut it, keeping both Brogdon and Middleton was going to cost them $100's of millions all things being equal.

Those numbers are reflective of Bledsoe still being on the roster though right?

[Plossum]

Would be interesting to see how all that changes if we let Bled walk and keep Brogs instead.

[Plossum]

I’m not saying Brogs will touch Harden levels of elite play but the situation is very similar to what happened at OKC when Harden was there. He was viewed as a luxury they didn’t want to pay for at the time and they were all in on Durant, Russ and Ibaka.

I have a bad feeling we could look back on this in a year or two and lament how good a number 2/3 Brogs could have been to Giannis.

[paulpressey25]

Would be interesting to see how all that changes if we let Bled walk and keep Brogs instead.

Bledsoe makes about 17mm guaranteed per year. Brogdon at $21mm. Brogdon only $4mm a year more.

So we might have some tax but it would be way, way less and thus easier to work through.

That said, does Indy offer 4/$100 if they didn’t have a trade lined up. I.e. an offer the Bucks would never match, ever.

[Chuck Diesel]

Everyone talks about deferring to the Bucks having the medical intel on Brogdon, which is fair. But didn’t they also have the psychological info on Bledsoe? If not they certainly have it now.

[Bernman]

Bledsoe makes about 17mm guaranteed per year. Brogdon at $21mm. Brogdon only $4mm a year more.

So we might have some tax but it would be way, way less and thus easier to work through.

That said, does Indy offer 4/$100 if they didn’t have a trade lined up. I.e. an offer the Bucks would never match, ever.

Match Brogdon at 4/85, cap Middleton at 5/135, if he re-signs trade Bledsoe for Avery Bradley (1 yr/7m) and a late 1st/early 2nd, if he doesn't hold Bledsoe until midseason to recoup value then deal him in a 3-way as an example for Bogdanovic (starts at 17 for 4 yrs).

Lopez/Ersan/Bender
Giannis/Wilson
Middleton or Bogdanovic/Brown
Brogdon/Connaughton
Bradley or Bledsoe/DiVincenzo/Mason

Anything else is a bonus.

[ANTETOKOUNBROS]

When I heard we were not keeping Brogdon after having signed Middleton to his deal, I was literally so physically nauseated and disgusted with the FO that I tuned out of Bucks-anything until a week before the season began. I am regretting my decision all I see is Herb Kohl in these moves.

[paulpressey25]

Trying to cut down my post above into the main point. You can argue that they needed to prioritize Brogdon over player X (take your pick, Bledsoe, Middleton, etc). Valid debate.

But, once they made those other player choices, it meant that matching a 4/$84 deal for Brogdon would result in approximately:

Brogs costing in total about $40-$45mm this year.
Brogs costing in total about $65 to $70mm per year after Giannis SuperMax
Brogs with repeater tax about $92-$96mm per year

At those numbers, I don't fault ownership for not paying the tax to match a Brogdon offer sheet. No NBA team is paying that type of money to retain Brogdon, especially given his injury issue and three Indy draft picks waiting in return.

Making the wrong personnel decision of player X over Brogdon? That's a fair issue to discuss and debate.

[bucksfansince88]

Them not prioritizing brogdon makes me wonder what was going on behind the scenes..2nd round pick rookie of the year, arguably the most clutch and steady player on the team. I wish we had a real bucks beat journalist that could fill us in

[ejn1214]

Pacers are 1-3 and have lost to the pistons twice (without Blake) and the Cavs. Let's pump the brakes a bit. He's shooting 43% while dominating the ball on a team playing poorly.

[paulpressey25]

Pacers are 1-3 and have lost to the pistons twice (without Blake) and the Cavs. Let's pump the brakes a bit. He's shooting 43% while dominating the ball on a team playing poorly.

Fair point. And a week from now, his plantar fascia might blow.

[DrWood]

People need to simply stop suggesting that signing Bledsoe was a bad idea.

[Bernman]

Pacers are 1-3 and have lost to the pistons twice (without Blake) and the Cavs. Let's pump the brakes a bit. He's shooting 43% while dominating the ball on a team playing poorly.

The reverse is he's averaging 22/11 w/ a solid ts% and 3 pt% on volume, displaying he's not limited to being a super-charged role player like he was called to minimize the loss, even though he was posting a rare 50/40/90 like only stars have - Nash, Miller, Nowitzki, Durant, Curry, Price, Bird.

He can be a chameleon to improve a team's chances of winning. Yeah, they're 1-3, but his +/- is just above even in a less than ideal role for him as his team's #1.

Here he could play off Giannis or even Middleton, pick his spots better, be our 2 or 3 who barrels to the basket and helps spacing. Doesn't make him a role player, just not a superstar. Possibly an all-star though and not something you should give up for a late 1st and 2nd rd pick when you're a contender.

[Bernman]

People need to simply stop suggesting that signing Bledsoe was a bad idea.

We're not, rather when the time came, they should have easily chosen to unload Bledsoe to make room for Brogdon or Middleton if that was a real dilemma, which it appeared to be for the owners. Seemingly chose the wrong path at the fork in the road. It's even more treacherous come playoff time.

But he's who we're going to live or die with. So better blindly hope he's not a mental midget for the 3rd year in a row I guess, or get real creative. Hard to envision getting someone as good as Brogdon for him though given his unreliable shooting and playoff performances.

[DrWood]

People need to simply stop suggesting that signing Bledsoe was a bad idea.

We're not, rather when the time came, they should have easily chosen to unload Bledsoe to make room for Brogdon or Middleton if that was a real dilemma, which it appeared to be for the owners. Seemingly chose the wrong path at the fork in the road. It's even more treacherous come playoff time.

But he's who we're going to live or die with. So better blindly hope he's not a mental midget for the 3rd year in a row I guess, or get real creative. Hard to envision getting someone as good as Brogdon for him though given his unreliable shooting and playoff performances.

And not have a PG?

Only Middleton is being paid too much. Bledsoe is not the problem. Anyone who would choose Brogdon over him is foolish or is Nostradamus.

[Bernman]

And not have a PG?

Only Middleton is being paid too much. Bledsoe is not the problem. Anyone who would choose Brogdon over him is foolish or is Nostradamus.

You can trade Bledsoe for somebody. That's not a rule that if you deal a player you can't get one in return. That player could be a pg. I suggested Avery Bradley to guard 1's and offload salary over half Bledsoe's salary. DiVincenzo is more a Bledsoe than Brogdon analog right now. Athletic, all-arounder who has an unreliable outside shot. He can bring the ball up. Giannis runs point duties in the halfcourt. Brogdon is currently playing pg for the Pacers. He played it for the Bucks multiple stints before. Who your pg would be then is a non-issue.

Choosing Brogdon over Bledsoe in the playoffs, when it matters most, is a no brainer. Hell, you should choose TJ McConnell over him in the playoffs. Fool you once shame on him, fool you three times shame on you, if there's a fool in this situation it's you.

[Plossum]

What sort of a PG is Bledsoe that Brogdon isn’t?

I expect something douchey but insightful from the good doctor.