ATL -Fizdale Fizzles Out in NY

Post #1261 » by **ReasonablySober** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 2:06 am

I'll always remember Stern as a prick and dress-code hardass.

Bucksfan28 · Post #1262 » by **Bucksfan28** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 2:13 am

Hope this Blazers/Knicks game stays close and Melo closes it out for Portland.

Bucksfan28 · Post #1263 » by **Bucksfan28** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 2:43 am

Bucksfan28 wrote:Hope this Blazers/Knicks game stays close

HurricaneKid · Post #1264 » by **HurricaneKid** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 2:49 am

Looks like Isaac tore at least a few knee ligaments. That really sucks. He was really starting to turn the corner.

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RRyder823 · Post #1265 » by **RRyder823** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 4:27 am

Matches Malone wrote:

Read on Twitter

Dont really see it from the Celtics and I'm not sure what Milwaukee or Philly could give up for it to make sense

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emunney · Post #1266 » by **emunney** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 4:31 am

McCollum doesn't fit the identity of this team. I say this as somebody who's been suggesting we trade for him since his rookie year.

Post #1267 » by **paulpressey25** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 5:30 am

The Woj/McCollum tweet was a hoax from a guy with 1,300 followers. Then a low level Sixers fan with 5,000 followers RT’ed it, so it got semi-viral.

emunney · Post #1268 » by **emunney** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 6:38 am

Just saw the Isaac injury. Rough stuff, feel for the kid.

FlagsFlyForever · Post #1269 » by **FlagsFlyForever** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 7:00 am

ReasonablySober wrote:I'll always remember Stern as a prick and dress-code hardass.

Fans didn't like a lot of the decisions Stern made, but he made the owners and players a lot of money. The dress code that you mention can sum up Stern's tenure in a nutshell. By making the players dress white, it helped the NBA escape their reputation of being a bunch of thugs. It's a clearly prickish thing to do but it helped the NBA appeal to a wider audience and it made a lot of money. You don't have to like Stern but you do have to respect him.

emunney · Post #1270 » by **emunney** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 7:29 am

I feel like the phrase, "You don't have to like him, but you do have to respect him," has been written and spoken about tons of people who I do not (nor need to) either like or respect.

In general I think he did a fair job of guiding the league through pretty calm waters with some very charismatic players carrying the brand. I see he's been getting some good ink from the way he handled Magic's diagnosis and I agree that seems like an important moment handled well. I don't know how much credit he should get for Michael Jordan, but I'm sure he was instrumental in making The Dream Team happen and while it's hard to determine the impact, it seemed huge in '92 and has only seemed to grow over time.

Chuck Diesel · Post #1271 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 7:53 am

Thought it was really interesting to hear Marques talk about the way he experience the change in All-Star game/weekend marketing first hand when Stern took over. The guy was a genius salesman.

AussieBuck · Post #1272 » by **AussieBuck** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 8:09 am

Stern's legacy to me is mostly the frustrating clinging to the star American guy in the big market strategy that has seen the NBA struggle against the more socialist and successful NFL model that recognises that where the team plays is way less important in the TV/internet era. It's **** nuts that this great game has to fight against **** like egg-ball and guys driving around in circles.

RRyder823 · Post #1273 » by **RRyder823** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 8:24 am

AussieBuck wrote:Stern's legacy to me is mostly the frustrating clinging to the star American guy in the big market strategy that has seen the NBA struggle against the more socialist and successful NFL model that recognises that where the team plays is way less important in the TV/internet era. It's **** nuts that this great game has to fight against **** like egg-ball and guys driving around in circles.

The NFL is so successful NOT because they recognize where a team plays is less important in the TV/Internet era.

It's because they market the TEAMS and not the players. (The average casual fan wouldn't recognize more then 3 or 4 players in the entire league if you showed them a picture)

It's why when theres a pr problem the 1st priority is "to protect the shield" and not the NBA's "well we gotta keep this player marketable". Also the NFL has the advantage of their small market teams also pretty much being their most iconic (Green Bay, Pittsburgh and even Cleveland) and have the most loyal fan bases that pre date the internet

NFL markets the name on the front of the jersey. NBA markets the name on the back.

That said Stern started marketing the name on the back out of necessity. Not sure why so many people have been downplaying getting playoff games off of tape delay and taking the NBA global.

The NBA could try and shift focus from the players to the teams but their much bigger issue would be that 95% of all coverage of the league (even during the playoffs) is based off player movement from team to team and not the product on the court and as such keeps the focus on the players and not the team. It would be much better if that wasnt the case but I'd guess they're simply to far down the rabbit hole to change it.

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AussieBuck · Post #1274 » by **AussieBuck** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 8:35 am

RRyder823 wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:Stern's legacy to me is mostly the frustrating clinging to the star American guy in the big market strategy that has seen the NBA struggle against the more socialist and successful NFL model that recognises that where the team plays is way less important in the TV/internet era. It's **** nuts that this great game has to fight against **** like egg-ball and guys driving around in circles.

The NFL is so successful NOT because they recognize where a team plays is less important in the TV/Internet era.

It's because they market the TEAMS and not the players. (The average casual fan wouldn't recognize more then 3 or 4 players in the entire league if you showed them a picture)

It's why when theres a pr problem the 1st priority is "to protect the shield" and not the NBA's "well we gotta keep this player marketable". Also the NFL has the advantage of their small market teams also pretty much being their most iconic (Green Bay, Pittsburgh and even Cleveland) and have the most loyal fan bases that pre date the internet

NFL markets the name on the front of the jersey. NBA markets the name on the back.

That said Stern started marketing the name on the back out of necessity. Not sure why so many people have been downplaying getting playoff games off of tape delay and taking the NBA global.

The NBA could try and shift focus from the players to the teams but their much bigger issue is that 95% of all coverage of the league (even during the playoffs) is based off player movement from team to team and not the product on the court. It would be much better if that wasnt the case but I'd guess they're simply to far down the rabbit hole to change it.

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This is my point. Nobody cares that Green bay is some hick backwater joint populated by 85 people with 300 combined teeth (probably). It's all about whether the team can score more slightly-improved rugby style points. NBA is still trying to be Magic vs Bird.

RRyder823 · Post #1275 » by **RRyder823** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 8:54 am

AussieBuck wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:Stern's legacy to me is mostly the frustrating clinging to the star American guy in the big market strategy that has seen the NBA struggle against the more socialist and successful NFL model that recognises that where the team plays is way less important in the TV/internet era. It's **** nuts that this great game has to fight against **** like egg-ball and guys driving around in circles.

The NFL is so successful NOT because they recognize where a team plays is less important in the TV/Internet era.

It's because they market the TEAMS and not the players. (The average casual fan wouldn't recognize more then 3 or 4 players in the entire league if you showed them a picture)

It's why when theres a pr problem the 1st priority is "to protect the shield" and not the NBA's "well we gotta keep this player marketable". Also the NFL has the advantage of their small market teams also pretty much being their most iconic (Green Bay, Pittsburgh and even Cleveland) and have the most loyal fan bases that pre date the internet

NFL markets the name on the front of the jersey. NBA markets the name on the back.

That said Stern started marketing the name on the back out of necessity. Not sure why so many people have been downplaying getting playoff games off of tape delay and taking the NBA global.

The NBA could try and shift focus from the players to the teams but their much bigger issue is that 95% of all coverage of the league (even during the playoffs) is based off player movement from team to team and not the product on the court. It would be much better if that wasnt the case but I'd guess they're simply to far down the rabbit hole to change it.

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This is my point. Nobody cares that Green bay is some hick backwater joint populated by 85 people with 300 combined teeth (probably). It's all about whether the team can score more slightly-improved rugby style points. NBA is still trying to be Magic vs Bird.

Heres the thing though. The NFL has always marketed themselves like that. The internet wasnt a factor for their marketing strategy.

Also like I said the NFL has the bonus of their small market teams having been pretty much their most iconic ones and where built up during the early days of the league (a moment that has passed for the NBA). The Browns have probably the most loyal fan base out of any sport franchise and Pittsburgh and Green Bay are simply entrenched as cornerstone of the league franchises. (Green Bays nickname is Title Town USA for christ sake)

No matter how the NBA decides to market teams like the Bucks and OKC will NEVER own that kind of prestige.

And damn dude. That's some **** talking about GB

I'm not disagreeing it would be better to market the teams and not the players long term. I'm just saying I disagree with your reasoning on "why" it would be better and "why" it works

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AussieBuck · Post #1276 » by **AussieBuck** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 9:39 am

RRyder823 wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
The NFL is so successful NOT because they recognize where a team plays is less important in the TV/Internet era.

It's because they market the TEAMS and not the players. (The average casual fan wouldn't recognize more then 3 or 4 players in the entire league if you showed them a picture)

It's why when theres a pr problem the 1st priority is "to protect the shield" and not the NBA's "well we gotta keep this player marketable". Also the NFL has the advantage of their small market teams also pretty much being their most iconic (Green Bay, Pittsburgh and even Cleveland) and have the most loyal fan bases that pre date the internet

NFL markets the name on the front of the jersey. NBA markets the name on the back.

That said Stern started marketing the name on the back out of necessity. Not sure why so many people have been downplaying getting playoff games off of tape delay and taking the NBA global.

The NBA could try and shift focus from the players to the teams but their much bigger issue is that 95% of all coverage of the league (even during the playoffs) is based off player movement from team to team and not the product on the court. It would be much better if that wasnt the case but I'd guess they're simply to far down the rabbit hole to change it.

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This is my point. Nobody cares that Green bay is some hick backwater joint populated by 85 people with 300 combined teeth (probably). It's all about whether the team can score more slightly-improved rugby style points. NBA is still trying to be Magic vs Bird.
Heres the thing though. The NFL has always marketed themselves like that. The internet wasnt a factor for their marketing strategy.

Also like I said the NFL has the bonus of their small market teams having been pretty much their most iconic ones and where built up during the early days of the league (a moment that has passed for the NBA). The Browns have probably the most loyal fan base out of any sport franchise and Pittsburgh and Green Bay are simply entrenched as cornerstone of the league franchises. (Green Bays nickname is Title Town USA for christ sake)

No matter how the NBA decides to market teams like the Bucks and OKC will NEVER own that kind of prestige.

And damn dude. That's some **** talking about GB

I'm not disagreeing it would be better to market the teams and not the players long term. I'm just saying I disagree with your reasoning on "why" it would be better and "why" it works

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I'm saying that in the modern era there are less barriers to marketing teams in backwaters. I'm thinking you're reading past that and mis-interpreting what I'm posting. At least one of us is drunk though so I'm not really at a point of distributing blame for us arguing while mostly agreeing.

LuessiT · Post #1277 » by **LuessiT** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 1:32 pm

Trade deadline will be interesting. Lots of teams that should be selling but may end up buying or at least shuffling. Knicks and Pelicans with their recent performances my end up trying to creep into the 8th seed. Memphis should be tanking to add another piece but they don't have that many vets to trade. Phoenix will aim for the playoffs and I doubt PDX will tear it down just yet. Thunder have too good of a record to be tanking but I'm sure that is on Presti's mind if he can find trades for Paul and Gallo. And then there are some good teams that may end up selling like Toronto or Indiana (Turner?).

Post #1278 » by **MickeyDavis** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 1:46 pm

Hard to compare NFL vs. NBA. The NFL has a hard cap and more importantly a system in place where the stars can't leave their team. I love that. With so much player movement the NBA will always be marketed around the players not the teams.

Pachinko_ · Post #1279 » by **Pachinko_** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 2:13 pm

The NBA has built in powerful forces that constantly pull all teams to the middle, and you can only fight them for so long with careful trades and coaching and culture before the inevitable happens and you're back on the treadmill.
It's hard to market a team to a fan when you know that team will basically be crap to mediocre for most of his life as a fan. It doesn't matter if you're in NY or MKE, it will be crap most of the time, that's just how the NBA works.
So if the team has a star you market the star, and if you don't you market the "youth movement" of your (usually imaginary) future stars that you just got through the draft. Wins and team achievements can't be marketed in the NBA, it's suicidal.

Ron Swanson · Post #1280 » by **Ron Swanson** » Thu Jan 2, 2020 2:48 pm

I don't have to like or respect David Stern, but I do have to acknowledge his accomplishments in transforming the NBA from a sport that was an afterthought in the American consciousness (people don't understand how little people cared about the NBA as opposed to baseball and football in the early-80s) into the 2nd most popular team sport in the world.

He wasn't some incompetent buffoon like the guy currently running the NFL, but then again, maybe that speaks more to the incredibly low expectations I have for what makes a successful commissioner. Because like most sports commissioners, his enduring legacy is that he and a bunch of already rich owners made a lot of money off the backs of a bunch of (predominantly black) athletes. Which I can only applaud so much.