Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Nwora in protocols

[WRau1]

But also in this scenario, you couldn't get the job done for $180. You refused to pay $300 and now you have to have the crackheads rub your windshield with newspaper.

Says who? We're 30 games into the season and so far it looks like when healthy, we're the best roster in the league.

And how much contributing to the roster are guys like Hood, Nwora, Semi and eventually Wes Matthews doing? I'd almost be willing to bet we're paying a couple of these guys to bugger off at the next stoplight.

Matthews is going to stick because he can still defend. As far as Hood, Nwora and Semi go, I guess it's a good thing we didn't give them a guaranteed 2yr $14mil deal.

[Siefer]

"I refuse to update my priors" is close friends with "I'm emotionally invested in my initial conclusions" and together they make conversations like this insufferable. If you think PJ doesn't deserve a roster spot for X basketball reason/s, alright, I disagree with you, but we're having a conversation. If you have some special knowledge about how the team could not afford him because the financials are secretly on fire, please tell me more, because this is important information! But for god's sake (any god will suffice), stop with the "he wasn't worth the money" garbage. We either brought him back, or we didn't, and it didn't impact any other move we made outside of the aforementioned roster spots (15 of those).

Again, if you think he didn't deserve one of those 15 spots regardless of the money, okay, I understand your argument. If you don't understand that due to how the NBA does salary, our options were PJ for "a wide range of not-my-dollars" or not PJ, and that the money didn't impact other moves now, or tomorrow, now you know. If you legitimately think it's reasonable for the ownership group to have pocketed the money because it's their team, and dagnabbit, that's what capitalism is all about...bless your heart.

[emunney]

i think the guys upset about losing pj are operating under the old herb kohl mentality where we had to overpay the old guy to stay because we didnt have the other value options that present themselves annually for other contenders.

now we have mega options. we get wes and cousins for peanuts. neither one of those guys comes here if we arent in the situation we are. we havent even seen buyout candidates yet but we know theyre inbound too.

the backend of our bench was so weak it almost seems like it was intentional. not grabbing best available in the summer might have been calculated knowing what would present itself later.

the idea we would back up a brinks truck with gauranteed cash on tucker to cock block minutes on a multitude of better players on the minimum coming in later makes no sense whatsoever. signing tucker and not playing him could have even backfired in the lockerroom. none of us really know how that weighed in either. we traded for him as a malcontent and you can be damn sure if he was getting dnps that was going to be an issue here.

i inititally wanted to bring him back as a salary slot for one year. like hit him for 10-12 million on a one year deal. go year by year and keep that trade value high keeping him on an expiring. he wanted that multi year thing and for me thats a poison pill. im glad we didnt do it

This is a GOOD POST.

I don't agree with all the premises -- I wanted PJ back on a short deal based on who is is as a player and what he did (and what I believed he'd continue to do) for the team, but the idea that he'd have made us less attractive to better theoretical players is imo worth considering. I'm not sure if it's true or not, either from the angle that Wes and Cousins are better for us than PJ, or from the angle that having PJ would preclude their signing, but it's plausible.

I don't subscribe to the idea that we should sign guys to hold a salary slot. North Star for me is whether I want the guy on the team or not.

[Baddy Chuck]

Says who? We're 30 games into the season and so far it looks like when healthy, we're the best roster in the league.

And how much contributing to the roster are guys like Hood, Nwora, Semi and eventually Wes Matthews doing? I'd almost be willing to bet we're paying a couple of these guys to bugger off at the next stoplight.

Matthews is going to stick because he can still defend. As far as Hood, Nwora and Semi go, I guess it's a good thing we didn't give them a guaranteed 2yr $14mil deal.

Just right there you literally have year 1 of PJ's salary

[Ron Swanson]

simply having him on the roster on a multi year gauranteed deal would have forced us to play him. or do you disagree with that?

Why? Dude was completely fine with being load-managed every other game and getting his 19 minutes off the bench just 6 months ago. Hell, everyone including PJ knows that the the regular season isn't what you brought him in for, but the irony is that we definitely could have used him as a ~25ish minutes starter over the past 15-20 games with how injury riddled the roster has been.

If by fine you mean out of shape and injured then I guess.

Ok? Was he still fine with it? Dude's been less injured and more in-shape than the $4 mil and two roster spots we lit on fire with Semi and Hood. Again, what are you letting-PJ-walk guys even arguing at this point?

[WRau1]

Wait, do people still not understand how vet minimum contracts work with a team over the cap? That makes a lot more sense.

[raferfenix]

Matthews is going to stick because he can still defend.

It might be cognitive dissonance but I'm talking myself into the Wes acquisition.

Asking him to be a starting SG is a far cry from a situational defender off the bench.

Could imagine Matthews playing some D against certain matchups in the playoffs. Either way he'll probably offer some breathers to other guys during the doldrums of the regular season at least.

[Baddy Chuck]

Wait, do people still not understand how vet minimum contracts work with a team over the cap? That makes a lot more sense.

What are you even on about here?

[raferfenix]

Thinking about our roster as it stands and where we might be taking it:

PG: Holiday, Hill, Smart
SG: Allen, Donte (when healthy), Hood
SF: Middleton, Connaughton, Matthews, Nwora
PF: Giannis, Semi, Thanasis
C: Portis, Cousins, Mamu, Lopez (if healthy)

There is a big difference if the Bucks expect Donte to come back in time to showcase his play on the court before the trade deadline vs if we're just hoping he can be a contributor before the end of the year.

Similarly if the Bucks actually think Brook has a shot at making the playoffs this year vs if we are considering pulling the plug and using him as salary fodder.

If the Bucks are not ready to deal Donte and Lopez, then Hood + Semi + Nwora seem like the clearest odd men out to me.

If we'd combine those three together that's a $5.5 million package which we could deal as soon as Dec. 15. That tact also could open up a roster spot or two that we can hold on to for the buy out market.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Wait, do people still not understand how vet minimum contracts work with a team over the cap? That makes a lot more sense.

What are you even on about here?

its in reference to your post that compares 3 salaries on 3 roster slots to what "tucker would have made in year 1"

[WRau1]

Thinking about our roster as it stands and where we might be taking it:

PG: Holiday, Hill, Smart
SG: Allen, Donte (when healthy), Hood
SF: Middleton, Connaughton, Matthews, Nwora
PF: Giannis, Semi, Thanasis
C: Portis, Cousins, Mamu, Lopez (if healthy)

There is a big difference if the Bucks expect Donte to come back in time to showcase his play on the court before the trade deadline vs if we're just hoping he can be a contributor before the end of the year.

Similarly if the Bucks actually think Brook has a shot at making the playoffs this year vs if we are considering pulling the plug and using him as salary fodder.

If the Bucks are not ready to deal Donte and Lopez, then Hood + Semi + Nwora seem like the clearest odd men out to me.

If we'd combine those three together that's a $5.5 million package which we could deal as soon as Dec. 15. That tact also could open up a roster spot or two that we can hold on to for the buy out market.

I wish we knew the extent of Lopez's injury and if the Bucks planned on applying for a DPE or not.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

we made an offer to pj didnt we anyway? or are the guys advocating we should have kept him suggesting that we didnt?

my understanding is we bailed on a bidding war with a desperate team in warm sunny miami who was offering a starting spot on a player we may have been on the fence that we even wanted period.

whose to say what went down in negotiations. maybe we were expected to beat miamis offer and we just pulled our initial offer and hung up the phone. have we even heard those details? to me that sounds like the most obvious scenario

if the deal was pj expected a bidding war with miami then i love how we handled it. move on. find the next portis, pat c or allen. dont look back

[WRau1]

we made an offer to pj didnt we anyway? or are the guys advocating we should have kept him suggesting that we didnt?

my understanding is we bailed on a bidding war with a desperate team in warm sunny miami who was offering a starting spot on a player we may have been on the fence that we even wanted period.

whose to say what went down in negotiations. maybe we were expected to beat miamis offer and we just pulled our initial offer and hung up the phone. have we even heard those details? to me that sounds like the most obvious scenario

if the deal was pj expected a bidding war with miami then goddam i love how we handled it

It was suggested that PJ was insulted by our initial offer but it was also suggested that the insult could've been due to how long it took for the Bucks to initiate contact about a new deal.

[raferfenix]

I wish we knew the extent of Lopez's injury and if the Bucks planned on applying for a DPE or not.

For real!

Do we know how much would the DPE be if we were to apply for it?

If we had a DPE that could come into the equation if a player who is considering the discount to offer their current team in a buyout by calculating how much $ they could earn from a different team.

Also would we be able to use a DPE in a trade similarly to a trade exception?

[WRau1]

I wish we knew the extent of Lopez's injury and if the Bucks planned on applying for a DPE or not.

For real!

Do we know how much would the DPE be if we were to apply for it?

If we had a DPE that could come into the equation if a player who is considering the discount to offer their current team in a buyout by calculating how much $ they could earn from a different team.

Also would we be able to use a DPE in a trade similarly to a trade exception?

It's half that player's current year contract value or the current MLE, whichever is lower. In this case, half of Lopez's yearly would be lower than the MLE so it would be around $6.6mil. You can use it like a TPE (i even think you get a $100k buffer in trades) but I think any player that you get back has to be in the last year of their deal. It would work great in the buyout market like you suggested though because we could offer someone like Thad Young, $6.6mil for 1 year. That's far more than any other contender.

[Siefer]

we made an offer to pj didnt we anyway? or are the guys advocating we should have kept him suggesting that we didnt?

my understanding is we bailed on a bidding war with a desperate team in warm sunny miami who was offering a starting spot on a player we may have been on the fence that we even wanted period.

whose to say what went down in negotiations. maybe we were expected to beat miamis offer and we just pulled our initial offer and hung up the phone. have we even heard those details? to me that sounds like the most obvious scenario

if the deal was pj expected a bidding war with miami then i love how we handled it. move on. find the next portis, pat c or allen. dont look back

Social stuff is always a real consideration, so it's reasonable to float the possibility. Something might have gone down that really soured the relationship during whatever discussions were had. Similarly, the idea that establishing how we handle X type of negotiation was more valuable than the particular player is at least plausible to me. My core beef is with the people simply stating they didn't like the dollars.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

There's a huge difference between being cheap and paying someone what you feel their worth is. I'm not cheap but I'm not going to pay someone $300 to detail my car when I can get it done exactly the same for $180.

But also in this scenario, you couldn't get the job done for $180. You refused to pay $300 and now you have to have the crackheads rub your windshield with newspaper.

I think this scenario the car detail is a luxury (tax) expense that I'm not going to get to up in arms if we can't afford. Does the car have a great engine (giannis), Seat Belts (Jrue), Tires (midds), and great sound system (Bobby). I'm good with a few crumbs on the floor that didn't get vacuumed up. What are we talking about again?

[Baddy Chuck]

Wait, do people still not understand how vet minimum contracts work with a team over the cap? That makes a lot more sense.

What are you even on about here?

its in reference to your post that compares 3 salaries on 3 roster slots to what "tucker would have made in year 1"

What is there even to understand about that? We're using 3 salary slots, on top of what we used to cut Georgios, that could have went to another player. Hypotheticals and whatnot aside of guys coming here if we kept Tucker, the path we chose this season was Vet min/Vet min/Nwora/Rookie/Vet min/Vet min when it could have just been Tucker/Vet min/Vet min/Rookie. We could essentially have Tucker/Wes/Boogie/Mamu while having paid only $1.5 million more than having Hood/Semi/Nwora on the roster.

[Siefer]

I want to highlight GoS as someone I often disagree with, but who I think operates in good faith, has a solid process, and is willing to update beliefs. This isn't a passive-aggressive observation, I just want to boost good posting.

[raferfenix]

Highly unlikely but just for fun let's imagine David Aldridge's source is right about John Wall seriously considering Milwaukee if he were to be bought out:

One general manager volunteered the Kyrie Irving-less Nets, in a reserve role behind James Harden, or the Bucks as viable destinations.

https://theathletic.com/2991225/2021/12/03/for-john-wall-to-get-back-in-the-game-he-needs-to-play-whatever-the-role-and-pick-a-rose/

If the Bucks had a DPE that would make it easier for Wall to offer Houston money back without sacrificing much at all from his paycheck.

Blake Griffin gave back $13.3 million in his buyout with the Pistons for a comparison point.

If the Bucks could offer Wall around $6.5 million this year he might feel fine about giving up that amount over the next 2 years since he'd be on track to earning it back after he signs a deal in the offseason, presumably for at least another $6.5 million if not significantly more (especially if he plays well for the Bucks).

In turn, if the Bucks were somehow able to pull John Wall, that would then make it dramatically easier for us to deal Donte if a deal presents itself.