Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news, re-tool discussion

[emunney]

Let Ham cook! <trichinosis warning>

[paulpressey25]

So the Bucks turned Donte into basically half of a Jae Crowder package… watching him do all the little things defensively for Golden State hurts. He is exactly the kind of guard the Bucks needed on the floor vs Miami

For the new readers, the context on Donte is that he got stuck on that John Hollinger column that said he was worth a four-year/$99 million dollar deal. So when the Bucks offered far less than that, he wanted out. And Horst obliged, working to get some value for him with the Ibaka/picks trade to the Kings.

And then the Kings hit impasse with him on contract, so they released his RFA rights. He then got the cheap deal with the Warriors.

Donte was a super important player for us. Glue guy to play the passing lanes and facilitate with ball movement. Think we get past Boston last year with him. And the Heat this year. But he has never reconciled his contract value with himself.

[MVP2110]

So the Bucks turned Donte into basically half of a Jae Crowder package… watching him do all the little things defensively for Golden State hurts. He is exactly the kind of guard the Bucks needed on the floor vs Miami

For the new readers, the context on Donte is that he got stuck on that John Hollinger column that said he was worth a four-year/$99 million dollar deal. So when the Bucks offered far less than that, he wanted out. And Horst obliged, working to get some value for him with the Ibaka/picks trade to the Kings.

And then the Kings hit impasse with him on contract, so they released his RFA rights. He then got the cheap deal with the Warriors.

Donte was a super important player for us. Glue guy to play the passing lanes and facilitate with ball movement. Think we get past Boston last year with him. And the Heat this year. But he has never reconciled his contract value with himself.

While that may be true Horst never had to trade him for washed up Ibaka. There is no defending Horst on this one.

[DingleJerry]

Yea there is. At the time DDV was still coming off injury adn was playing like trash. Essentially he was behind both Allan and Pat and looked bad and was about to be a FA, which I'm sure the Bucks had already talked to his management and knew they were far apart on money (and keep in mind for the Bucks it comes with a massive tax too). At the time, Brook was out and no one knew how he'd look so they needed a big to possibly soak up reg season mins and be there for emergency in the playoffs.

So, there was plenty of logic to the trade. But obviously in hindsight it was a mistake. At the time it made sense though. I guess the best way to look at is the key mistake was not realizing Ibaka was washed, not so much trading DDV. Essentially they just traded him for the wrong guy

[Diggr14]

Brook Lopez to Golden State (2/45) – Green (27M), 2023 FRP, 2025 FRP (top 15 protected)

I love Brook but are you saying you think he gets us Draymond Green and 2 first round picks?

Yes, cheaper and a better interior defender than Draymond. GS is going to be desperate this offseason to fill that need. GS FRP are in the 20s+ A dime a dozen.

[Milbucks96]

Am I missing something? DDV has been garbage this series against the lakers and warriors fans have been calling him a no show. He’s shooting like 35% from the field and he’s in the 20’s on 3’s. I know he does the in between stuff but that can only help so much when you’re that bad of an offensive player and not really a lock down defender. I wish we could’ve had him on that warriors deal but it was never going to happen.

The trade for ibaka was bad though, should’ve just traded him the summer before right after the Bogdan trade fell through. I’m more surprised he’s playing right now instead of sitting in a boot on the bench.

[Diggr14]

Here is what I would do. Everything listed is close enough to make work somehow with filler either way. Assuming opt ins in some circumstances or S&T situations. Coach - I go get Shaka.

Milwaukee Bucks Offseason

Keep:
Giannis 46M
Bobby 11M
PC 9M 3yr
GA 9M
Marjon – 2.6 (3yr)

Sign and Trade:

Khris Middleton S&T (3/90) to ORL – Markelle Fultz (17M) and 2025 FRP Top 5 protected
Brook Lopez to Golden State (2/45) – Green (27M), 2023 FRP, 2025 FRP (top 15 protected)
Trade

Jrue Holiday – Houston – Jalen Green, 2025 FRP Houston (top 5 protected) 2023 FRP Nets
Sign Cheaper alternatives – from current team
Javon Carter (PO) – Decline / Sign 2yr 12M
Cheaper alternative – from other teams
Luka Garza – acquire from wolves (minimum) or give 2/8, 3/12

Lineup + Assets acquired
Fultz, Jalen Green, Pat C, Giannis, Draymond Green
Bench: Grayson, Bobby, Marjon, Javon Carter, Luka Garza
FRP: GS 2023, Nets 2023
Let Walk
Thiannis
Wes
Goran
Joe Ingles
Jae Crowder

I dont work at Fed Ex, but this gets them younger, cheaper, and no real long term contracts to navigate if they suck together. If Giannis wants out next season.. it pretty much clears the way for an entire rebuild as well with a young core of draft capital + Jalen Green / Marjon.

I wouldn't want Draymond Green at all. If the Bucks are running it back, other then maybe trading Allen,Pat,Bobby. I like my trade of Allen,Pat,Bobby to Cavs for Allen, Rubio, Merrill. It's not the greatest. But get playmaker PG in Rubio. Young centerin Allen but paid like $20M. Also get Merrill back.

I wouldnt mind them flipping Green mid January. He's not the point of the deal. A few FRP and clearing future obligations, while getting back something for Brook when he could walk anyways.

Alot of this is just hypothetical. Things I think the Bucks must do in some kind of capacity - S&T Brook and Khris and Trade Holiday. Get Younger, Get some assets back, and give the franchise flexibility again, but also be serviceable enough where the team could trade and get better midseason or just catch fire with a 40 something win team - see LAL/Miami. Oddly enough, I think getting Luka Garza is a must. The guy can flat out ball and rebound. He's tremendously underrated because he is "unathletic". Dude gets basketball, is a really big body, and works hard. Get him.

[ABucksFan]

Sexton + Clarkson for Midds? Gamble on Sexton, maybe Jazz can re-route Midds.

[aboveAverage]

So much revisionist history here.

Ham coached the Bucks for a few weeks when Bud had Covid last year. As far as I remember, he was quite bad. We looked immediately better when Bud came back. He probably improved a bit this season, but remember that people also wanted him fired in LA before they made all the trades to get better talent around LeBron. I will give him credit for getting AD to play hard again. That’s probably the most important factor for the Lakers success this postseason.

Donte was really bad last year when we traded him. He didn’t offer much of anything on offense and was almost unplayable because of that. His defense and rebounding were always great, but at the time we didn’t know if Brook would be back in time for the playoffs and how healthy he’d be. We also had like zero center depth and it was costing us a year in our title window. Donte was unfortunately the only piece Horst could move, and we also didn’t want to give him a huge deal as a limited player. He’s still the same player by the way, his shooting just went back to where it was before. He still can’t create off the dribble and can’t finish in the paint. He works on GSW because of their elite shooters and playmakers, and because he’s on a really cheap deal.

[MVP2110]

Sure and at the time trading 5 2nds for Jae was reasonable. But GMs are judged using hindsight once you can tell if a move was good or not and both of trades are complete fails by Horst

[Diggr14]

Sure and at the time trading 5 2nds for Jae was reasonable. But GMs are judged using hindsight once you can tell if a move was good or not and both of trades are complete fails by Horst

I never wanted anything to do with Crowder. I usually want nothing to do with players that burn bridges and are malcontents on their current teams. It usually never changes. Plus, he's washed up hot garbage.

[ABucksFan]

OKC Win Now next year, Giddey and Dort for Midds? Just throwing things out there.

[Ron Swanson]

Yeah, really weird to bring up the Donte hindsight when the only thing keeping Golden State from being right in their series vs. LA would be if they had 1-2 better rotation guys to replace him with.

[averageposter]

Not sure I remotely believe that the difference in losing to the 8 seed Heat as the number one overall seed could be made up by Dante Divencenzo or any single player like him.

[paulpressey25]

While that may be true Horst never had to trade him for washed up Ibaka. There is no defending Horst on this one.

At the time we didn't know if Brook would ever play again, and we were getting hammered by bigger teams. He went and got a warm body and he got two more 2nd round picks to work with. Don't think that trade in isolation was terrible.

The bigger issue is that collectively the Horst pickups post PJ haven't worked. He's not had a lot of assets to work with, but here's the results:

Crowder
Ibaka
Wes
Serge
Grayson
MarJon
Jingles
George Hill
Semi
Mamu
Georgios
Nwora

That's basically 12 guys the past two years, and none of them have provided any post-season impact. We can give Wes some credit for being able to chase guys for 10 minutes every third game, but that's about it.

[MKE_Beers]

With the smoke around TL as a Bucks head coach target, would we be able to swing a bigger deal? This is assuming the Midds opts in but wants out/Bucks don't want to pay him what he wants.

MKE: TL, Powell, Gordon, and either a 1st or couple 2nds
LAC: Midds

Gordon is a tested vet we can trust and on an expiring whose salary slot could be valuable around the trade deadline. Powell is crazy long and can either start or come off as a super sub, plus is 3 years younger than Midds. Plus we get a coach in Lue that a lot of people consider one of the best in the league.

LAC get an insane lineup of 3 playmaking and sharp shooting 6ft 7 wings with Kawhi, George, and Middleton (when healthy).

[BroncoBuck]

I still can’t believe we signed Semi Ojeleye and he made the roster.

[Ron Swanson]

I'm not gonna go back to the pre-championship mindset of blaming the role players though. We lost because Jimmy had a Top-20 individual playoff series of all time. We lost because Jrue had one of the worst individual playoff series ever for a defender/overall player of his caliber. We lost because the best player in the league got hurt, missed 3-games, and clearly wasn't close to 100% when he came back. The Suns are making it a series vs. Denver right now with zero depth and quality rotation guys because they have 2 of the 3 best players on the court at all times.

This isn't a situation like what Steph is currently in. When your best players aren't playing up to their level, you're cooked as a playoff squad and it doesn't matter what window dressing you put around them. Replacing the role guys with some better shooters and defenders is gonna yield largely the same results (good RS depth and a high seed), but what we need to really be targeting above all else is a true 16-game offensive difference-maker. The only conundrum is whether that comes at the expense of one of your core pieces (Jrue/Middleton/Bobby) or in addition to those guys (possible but more difficult).

[ReddoverKobe]

OKC Win Now next year, Giddey and Dort for Midds? Just throwing things out there.

They would laugh us out of the room with that offer

[buckboy]

OKC Win Now next year, Giddey and Dort for Midds? Just throwing things out there.

Umm......yes please. And I'm a huge MIddleton defender.

OKC would have to be crazy though.