Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst Given Extension

[Bernman]

Aaron Gordon is an interesting parallel for Kuz. But we don't have strong leadership to get him to mellow out w/ his usage, & focus his energy on the other end. Also, for this season, he's out of shape to make all actions tougher, & was extreme YOLO'ing w/ the Wizards.

Maybe PJ Tucker would have been useful to the locker room. Instead we have a coach at the helm telling Kuz to get more involved in the offense.

[German Athens]

I don't think getting a younger but much less reliable/durable version of Brook is what we should be spending our remaining assets on. Just re-sign Brook on another 1-2 year deal and spend that first/swap elsewhere.

We’d still have the ‘32 1st to trade in a deal after acquiring KP, so it’s not as if we are using all our remaining assets to acquire him.

I’m fine questioning if we should use assets/significant salary on another big when we need more perimeter shot creation, but I think KP may be the cheapest higher end talent we could acquire if we just wanted a jolt of talent.

Generally, I think we could extract some value from teams who are desperate to dip under the 2nd apron (that deal gets the Celtics very close), and that’s where we should start looking.

[chonestown]

I don't think getting a younger but much less reliable/durable version of Brook is what we should be spending our remaining assets on. Just re-sign Brook on another 1-2 year deal and spend that first/swap elsewhere.

I doubt Sims is the long-term answer, but we've seen the value in having a serviceable young big like him. It wasn't that Horts couldn't find one, he didn't even try.

[German Athens]

I think a Sims replacement could be Gafford.

I think he’ll pretty clearly be on the block now that they have AD and Lively.

He has much better hands than Sims, has been an analytics darling the past few years on both ends, is still surprisingly young (26), and would still give us that rim-running threat.

[Ron Swanson]

I mean, if everyone's already sold that KPJ is a core player (eh), then I'm surprised no one's suggested getting involved in a Houston/Phoenix trade where we end up with KD. Dame to Houston, FVV and assets to PHX that gets them under the 2nd apron. Then use Kuzma/Pat plus that 2031 pick to add the best $20-30 mil salary wing/guard you can get.

[German Athens]

I think KD probably holds more value than Dame, so we might have to include that 1st to get him.

Coach killer, and openly quitting on teams still hasn’t eroded KD’s value to this point, so I imagine doing it one more time probably won’t erode it much more.

If Dame and KD hold the same value, and Houston’s involved in the deal, I imagine they’d prefer KD, since he’s the better player.

A straight swap between us and Phoenix could work, though.

[Ron Swanson]

I think KD probably holds more value than Dame, so we might have to include that 1st to get him.

Coach killer, and openly quitting on teams still hasn’t eroded KD’s value to this point, so I imagine doing it one more time probably won’t erode it much more.

If Dame and KD hold the same value, and Houston’s involved in the deal, I imagine they’d prefer KD, since he’s the better player.

A straight swap between us and Phoenix could work, though.

They already have an absolute glut of big wings and 4's with Amen, Eason, Jabari, etc. Dame is 2-years younger and just fits better with that roster given their guard rotation is barren and they need an excuse to exercise FVV's team option. Whereas Phoenix wants flexibility and assets to maneuver around until Beal's contract is off the books. It wouldn't be my first option because IMO we already missed our best window to pair all three guys (we don't have Khris' contract to trade anymore), but if you can turn Kuzma and whatever remaining assets into a starting guard so that we're not relying on Kevin Porter turning into prime Kevin Johnson, then it might be an avenue worth exploring.

[fansinceforever]

I'd love to flip Dame for a big (or 2) and a wing capable of starting/playing 25+ quality minutes. Even after the medical clearing, I don't think he holds enough value to get KD here.

i think KPJ and Rollins are good now with enough upside to check that box and focus on other glaring (likely) holes in the roster.

Unless Brook and Bobby take a huge discount or agree to a sign and trade, I think now is the time to move on.

[fansinceforever]

We're definitely not getting Amen for Dame. Probably not Eason either. They probably view those two in the 2-4 range of talent on their roster. Maybe higher for Amen.

They'd have to fall completely flat on their face in the playoffs for them to consider making that move.

[German Athens]

I think KD probably holds more value than Dame, so we might have to include that 1st to get him.

Coach killer, and openly quitting on teams still hasn’t eroded KD’s value to this point, so I imagine doing it one more time probably won’t erode it much more.

If Dame and KD hold the same value, and Houston’s involved in the deal, I imagine they’d prefer KD, since he’s the better player.

A straight swap between us and Phoenix could work, though.

They already have an absolute glut of big wings and 4's with Amen, Eason, Jabari, etc. Dame is 2-years younger and just fits better with that roster given their guard rotation is barren and they need an excuse to exercise FVV's team option. Whereas Phoenix wants flexibility and assets to maneuver around until Beal's contract is off the books. It wouldn't be my first option because IMO we already missed our best window to pair all three guys (we don't have Khris' contract to trade anymore), but if you can turn Kuzma and whatever remaining assets into a starting guard so that we're not relying on Kevin Porter turning into prime Kevin Johnson, then it might be an avenue worth exploring.

Oh, I’m with you. Dame would make a lot of sense on Houston.

Every time I look at the trade board, though, it appears Houston fans eviscerate all the Dame ideas, but are open to the KD ones.

As an aside, because I keep looking for small forward targets, there’s a dearth of creation 3’s in their prime. In the not so distant past we had LeBron, KD, Kawhi, Jimmy, PG, and Khris all at the peak of their powers.

Today, it’s kinda just Tatum and Luka.

Then a drop off to either younger players like Franz or Cade, or ones in their prime who are just nowhere near the top 20 like Mikal.

[Ron Swanson]

Houston fans on the trade board also think they'd get Giannis for Sengun and like 3-4 mystery box future picks. They have their completely delusional fans just like everyone. We'll see how they feel after they get bounced in the 1st round by either Golden State or Minnesota.

[German Athens]

If I’m trading Dame to Houston, I’m looking at bringing back Reed and then either Cam or Jabari.

I’d also be fine with Reed and Jalen, but that’s in a scenario where we don’t keep KPJ. Jalen also feels the riskiest due to his salary, the state of his current game, and his limited avenues to being a positive player. If he figures it out, he’s a better version of Lavine, but if he doesn’t clear that high bar of self-creation, he won’t offer anything of value on the court.

I think Reed, KPJ, and Rollins would be a really nice young guard rotation.

Jabari would give us a nice defensive look with Giannis at the 5 where we wouldn’t lose all size and rim protection. I think Jabari has very limited self creation, because his handle is terrible, but I like his jumper as a play finisher whether that’s outside or in the paint.

Cam’s more a wild card where you like the strength and explosiveness on both sides of the ball, but the defense isn’t there yet, and he’s never been a guy who creates for anyone else.

[soxperry]

In my mind, our best possible scenarios all involve KPJ developing into a real two way player and signing long term.

If that happens, we essentially got a fringe all star player and a guy who would be one of the best third options in the league for free.

We can ride Dame until his contract ends and then make a deal for another second fiddle down the road.

But Dame/Kpj/Giannis makes a lot of sense for now

[ShootingtheJ]

Kuzma needs Brook gone, he should never be in the 3 spot. The Bucks play way too big, maybe Doc is a genius and it will work in the playoffs but I don't see it. Kuz can be our Aaron Gordon and he'll do great in that role I think.

Kuzma isn't a 4 either, doesn't rebound enough. He's just bad. Wizards played him at the 4, he was still awful.

[ShootingtheJ]

I think a Sims replacement could be Gafford.

I think he’ll pretty clearly be on the block now that they have AD and Lively.

He has much better hands than Sims, has been an analytics darling the past few years on both ends, is still surprisingly young (26), and would still give us that rim-running threat.

Sims is a significantly better defender than Gafford, and Sims will sign for a minimum contract. You're right that Gafford is the better roll man, but i don't think that's the priority

[jimmybones]

In my mind, our best possible scenarios all involve KPJ developing into a real two way player and signing long term.

If that happens, we essentially got a fringe all star player and a guy who would be one of the best third options in the league for free.

We can ride Dame until his contract ends and then make a deal for another second fiddle down the road.

But Dame/Kpj/Giannis makes a lot of sense for now

Agreed, being gifted a potentially legitimate 3rd option talent makes running it (mostly) back make some sane sense.

1. Fire Doc 2. Keep KPJ

Those two things alone and I'm excited next year with just tweaking the roster on the margins.

Dame/KPJ/Green/Giannis/Brook and a modern coach could be a deadly offense

[soxperry]

In my mind, our best possible scenarios all involve KPJ developing into a real two way player and signing long term.

If that happens, we essentially got a fringe all star player and a guy who would be one of the best third options in the league for free.

We can ride Dame until his contract ends and then make a deal for another second fiddle down the road.

But Dame/Kpj/Giannis makes a lot of sense for now

Agreed, being gifted a potentially legitimate 3rd option talent makes running it (mostly) back make some sane sense.

1. Fire Doc 2. Keep KPJ

Those two things alone and I'm excited next year with just tweaking the roster on the margins.

Dame/KPJ/Green/Giannis/Brook and a modern coach could be a deadly offense

Then Khris declines his player option and signs with us for the bi annual to lead the bench unit. Giannis promises him some crypto or something.

[jakecronus8]

In my mind, our best possible scenarios all involve KPJ developing into a real two way player and signing long term.

If that happens, we essentially got a fringe all star player and a guy who would be one of the best third options in the league for free.

We can ride Dame until his contract ends and then make a deal for another second fiddle down the road.

But Dame/Kpj/Giannis makes a lot of sense for now

Agreed, being gifted a potentially legitimate 3rd option talent makes running it (mostly) back make some sane sense.

1. Fire Doc 2. Keep KPJ

Those two things alone and I'm excited next year with just tweaking the roster on the margins.

Dame/KPJ/Green/Giannis/Brook and a modern coach could be a deadly offense

Then Khris declines his player option and signs with us for the bi annual to lead the bench unit. Giannis promises him some crypto or something.

Not possible with Khris. I believe the rule is one calendar year from the trade that he’d be able to sign with us. Might be an entire season. I can’t recall

[jakecronus8]

In my mind, our best possible scenarios all involve KPJ developing into a real two way player and signing long term.

If that happens, we essentially got a fringe all star player and a guy who would be one of the best third options in the league for free.

We can ride Dame until his contract ends and then make a deal for another second fiddle down the road.

But Dame/Kpj/Giannis makes a lot of sense for now

For me it comes down to if Dame has real value. If KPJ is real and Dame has value, I think you move him for young pieces and open a new longer window.

If he doesn’t have value you then ride it out.

[German Athens]

How do you rank Duren, Stewart, Claxton, Gafford, Lively, WCJ, and Mark Williams as center targets?