Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Joe Johnson workout, pg 97

[slos]

Let's end the Teague/Rivers debate and just sign them both! We do have 13 players tied with contracts and 1.25 mil available under the tax, which is just enough to sign 2 players.

[crowhead76]

If the Knicks want Teague I am sure they claim him on waivers, they have the cap room.

For the Bucks, if their choices are Napier, Rivers, IT, Brandon Jennings, etc., I think Rivers makes the most sense. He has had up and down playoff performances but was all right for 20 mpg for the Chris Paul version of the Rockets.

[slos]

Did some math about next season. That's with Jrue signing his extension and without Forbes/Tucker/Portis.

1. Giannis......39,3
2. Middleton...35,5
3. Holiday......30
4. Brook........13,3
5. Pat............5,3
6. DDV...........4,7
7. Thanasis.....1,7 (min)
8. Merrill........1,5
9. Nwora........1,5
10. Diakite......1,5 (min)
11. HOU SRP....1,2
- dead money...5
- total...........140,5

I guess Forbes opts in his 2.5 mil, Bucks sign Portis or some other big if he gets priced out with the tax-MLE and resign Tucker using Bird rights since it will be him or some random vet min. That's 20 mil in the tax. Maybe more if they use the 4.8 mil TPE.

We need to play the rookies. Merrill and Nwora can contribute. Get Rivers as insurance for injuries/covid, but play the rookies.

[Bucksfan28]

Been advocating for Rivers for years. Itll likely be maddening but entertaining.

Also wouldnt mind them giving Chriss a look. I thought he showed some promise pre-injury.

[giannis and 1]

What's so good about Dieng? Isn't he one of those guys that just started playing like ass after securing the bag?

Dieng is a strong defender, plays hard, unselfish, and has shown consistent improvement with the 3, up to 44% this year.

Dieng's play didn't drop off with the payday, just the expectation of him changed.

He's better than LMA or Drummond.

I mixed him up with Luol Deng

[giannis and 1]

So it was a big deal to free up more room under the hard cap so we could sign Austin Rivers a game earlier?

The Bucks needed to do the little things well. They signed DJA, gave Forbes part of the MLE, preventing them from using it to sign the 2 good players they drafted in round 2. Gave up assets for Tubby Tucker, and now are signing the completely worthless Rivers with better players available.

That's not winning on the edges.

Only looking at negative and neutral moves with a negative lens will make everything look bad. Tried to fill some PG deficiencies and ended up overpaying a guy that ended up not being a fit. Moved down in the draft to undo that mistake and added a versatile defender that fits will with Giannis.

'Overpaid' Pat after messing up the two year deal, now Pat seems like an asset on an affordable contract.

Brought in Thanasis because he was Giannis brother and felt like that could help extend Giannis. It worked and now Thanasis brings something to the team with energy and enthusiasm and looks like he belongs in the league as an end of bench guy.

Found this Diakite guy that looks like he is on a similar trajectory as Christian Wood.

Tried to get a defensive specialist in Craig, didn't work out, got out of it with no penalty and opened up a roster spot for a buyout.

2nd round draft picks which tend to not look like NBA players, we may have found two shooters, kind of in the Duncan Robinson mold.

Like, I am sorry you are having a rough time, but lots of little things have been right. Never mind taking the chance on Brook and Pat in the first place. Hell even the 5th year on Middleton's deal is looking like a good move in retrospect and I didn't like that at all.

STJ has generally been fairly positive and even generous when critiquing Horst. He's not the guy to pick on. I would say his analysis is pretty unbiased, and even tilted slightly towards favouring Horst.

[giannis and 1]

OPJ remains the only buyout guy that might excite me and idk if he even gets bought out. Rivers sucks but I think? I’d rather have him than Teague, but definitely over freaking Knight lol. I’m probably underrating Teague. Really at the end of the day all these guys suck and shouldn’t really be playing for us in the playoffs.

You're underrating Teague. Played his best with Budenholzer. If they both have interest, make it happen. It's a chance at having someone with the caliber to effect the game like George Hill off the bench again.

He's not even close to the caliber of player that Hill was with the Bucks. And he played for Bud 5 years ago and is a much different (older and worse) player now, he was awful last season and not good (though not as terrible) this year.

I guess he's better than Austin Rivers but they all suck imo.

I disagree that all these guys suck and wouldn't play for us in the playoffs. Did you not see Olynyk in the playoffs for the Heat last year? He would be our best center.

[mke_design]

So it was a big deal to free up more room under the hard cap so we could sign Austin Rivers a game earlier?

The Bucks needed to do the little things well. They signed DJA, gave Forbes part of the MLE, preventing them from using it to sign the 2 good players they drafted in round 2. Gave up assets for Tubby Tucker, and now are signing the completely worthless Rivers with better players available.

That's not winning on the edges.

Only looking at negative and neutral moves with a negative lens will make everything look bad. Tried to fill some PG deficiencies and ended up overpaying a guy that ended up not being a fit. Moved down in the draft to undo that mistake and added a versatile defender that fits will with Giannis.

'Overpaid' Pat after messing up the two year deal, now Pat seems like an asset on an affordable contract.

Brought in Thanasis because he was Giannis brother and felt like that could help extend Giannis. It worked and now Thanasis brings something to the team with energy and enthusiasm and looks like he belongs in the league as an end of bench guy.

Found this Diakite guy that looks like he is on a similar trajectory as Christian Wood.

Tried to get a defensive specialist in Craig, didn't work out, got out of it with no penalty and opened up a roster spot for a buyout.

2nd round draft picks which tend to not look like NBA players, we may have found two shooters, kind of in the Duncan Robinson mold.

Like, I am sorry you are having a rough time, but lots of little things have been right. Never mind taking the chance on Brook and Pat in the first place. Hell even the 5th year on Middleton's deal is looking like a good move in retrospect and I didn't like that at all.

STJ has generally been fairly positive and even generous when critiquing Horst. He's not the guy to pick on. I would say his analysis is pretty unbiased, and even tilted slightly towards favouring Horst.

I would say that this is a generous lens of STJs critiques.

[Prez]

You're underrating Teague. Played his best with Budenholzer. If they both have interest, make it happen. It's a chance at having someone with the caliber to effect the game like George Hill off the bench again.

He's not even close to the caliber of player that Hill was with the Bucks. And he played for Bud 5 years ago and is a much different (older and worse) player now, he was awful last season and not good (though not as terrible) this year.

I guess he's better than Austin Rivers but they all suck imo.

I disagree that all these guys suck and wouldn't play for us in the playoffs. Did you not see Olynyk in the playoffs for the Heat last year? He would be our best center.

I was referring to the 3 guards between Teague/Rivers/Knight.

[BigO]

Bottom line is Austin Rivers is a stone cold horrible ballplayer. Forbes is a much better shooter-it's not even close For a team that says they pour over advanced stats, Rivers makes no sense. He is a consistently bad shooter on good teams, has no handle and can't play defense. Jeff Teague, is by far the better player, even now.
Having said this, none of this should matter. Come playoff time none of these names should see the court, except in mop up time. If Bud tried to develop players, he'd be playing he rookies more.The Bucks will win or lose based on their starting five, plus Pat, Forbes and Portis. No way the Bucks, with Bud as coach, can defeat Philly or Nets and will be a toss up with the rest of the east.

[Ruzious]

Been advocating for Rivers for years. Itll likely be maddening but entertaining.

Also wouldnt mind them giving Chriss a look. I thought he showed some promise pre-injury.

Aside from being below average in everything, Rivers is fine.

[giannis and 1]

Bottom line is Austin Rivers is a stone cold horrible ballplayer. Forbes is a much better shooter-it's not even close For a team that says they pour over advanced stats, Rivers makes no sense. He is a consistently bad shooter on good teams, has no handle and can't play defense. Jeff Teague, is by far the better player, even now.
Having said this, none of this should matter. Come playoff time none of these names should see the court, except in mop up time. If Bud tried to develop players, he'd be playing he rookies more.The Bucks will win or lose based on their starting five, plus Pat, Forbes and Portis. No way the Bucks, with Bud as coach, can defeat Philly or Nets and will be a toss up with the rest of the east.

I'd like to see Merrill get about 8 mins a game at pg, but I don't think that's going to happen. More likely that it would be Jrue getting like 36, and the rest going to DDV.

If we could have a guy like Teague to eat some of the pg minutes that would have otherwise went to DDV, it would be better than only DDV as the backup pg.

[DrWood]

Austin Rivers is much younger than Jeff Teague so if it were to work out it could be a longer term solution.

Not sure how good he is though.

Either way I hope the Bucks can make a choice between good options as opposed to taking whoever is left off the scrap heap.

Austin Rivers better not be considered to be a long term solution. If he's the best buyout guard that will sign with the bucks, fine, but he's just not good.

[ejn1214]

Did some math about next season. That's with Jrue signing his extension and without Forbes/Tucker/Portis.

1. Giannis......39,3
2. Middleton...35,5
3. Holiday......30
4. Brook........13,3
5. Pat............5,3
6. DDV...........4,7
7. Thanasis.....1,7 (min)
8. Merrill........1,5
9. Nwora........1,5
10. Diakite......1,5 (min)
11. HOU SRP....1,2
- dead money...5
- total...........140,5

I guess Forbes opts in his 2.5 mil, Bucks sign Portis or some other big if he gets priced out with the tax-MLE and resign Tucker using Bird rights since it will be him or some random vet min. That's 20 mil in the tax. Maybe more if they use the 4.8 mil TPE.

We need to play the rookies. Merrill and Nwora can contribute. Get Rivers as insurance for injuries/covid, but play the rookies.

This has to be somewhat important. We need our draft picks or cheap players to contribute in the regular season since we are gonna be in trouble cap wise. Off topic, but f it, bring back jennings and bucks in 4.

[RiotPunch]

Only looking at negative and neutral moves with a negative lens will make everything look bad. Tried to fill some PG deficiencies and ended up overpaying a guy that ended up not being a fit. Moved down in the draft to undo that mistake and added a versatile defender that fits will with Giannis.

'Overpaid' Pat after messing up the two year deal, now Pat seems like an asset on an affordable contract.

Brought in Thanasis because he was Giannis brother and felt like that could help extend Giannis. It worked and now Thanasis brings something to the team with energy and enthusiasm and looks like he belongs in the league as an end of bench guy.

Found this Diakite guy that looks like he is on a similar trajectory as Christian Wood.

Tried to get a defensive specialist in Craig, didn't work out, got out of it with no penalty and opened up a roster spot for a buyout.

2nd round draft picks which tend to not look like NBA players, we may have found two shooters, kind of in the Duncan Robinson mold.

Like, I am sorry you are having a rough time, but lots of little things have been right. Never mind taking the chance on Brook and Pat in the first place. Hell even the 5th year on Middleton's deal is looking like a good move in retrospect and I didn't like that at all.

STJ has generally been fairly positive and even generous when critiquing Horst. He's not the guy to pick on. I would say his analysis is pretty unbiased, and even tilted slightly towards favouring Horst.

I would say that this is a generous lens of STJs critiques.

STJ has largely remained in the Horst corner and any other opinion is misinformed. I disagree with him often enough on that to know. He's over the moon on Horst's recent drafting for example.

[Thanos1985]

The problem with Teague is defence, cause forbes and merrill . You can never play 2 of them. Forbes is one of the worst guards on defence. Rivers is average . Or slightly below average in both ends.Not good, but combining teague with forbes is 10 times worse

[slos]

OPJ played 25 min against the Lakers. Can't see Orlando buying him out.

Olynyk also played 25 min starting for Houston and was awesome in their W against Minny.

CoJo averaged 23.5 min in his first two games in Detroit. Looks like he stays there.

Bradley is the only buyout candidate that hasn't played. I guess he also stays though at Houston as 3rd PG behind Wall/Augustin.

At this point it seems that Teague or Rivers is the best you can have in this market.

[machu46]

I mean, it shouldn't be surprising that we're talking about adding players with significant weaknesses after they were bought out by their prior team. That's generally how it works. We either take Rivers and his okay shooting, maybe okay defense, and okay athleticism or we take Teague and his better shooter, worse defense, and okay athleticism.

I would guess that they probably view Rivers as the more versatile player and prioritize him as a result.

[Brewhoopfan]

The Bucks are left with the scraps. At least on paper, Milwaukee did not improve the roster as much as most of the other title contenders in the trade/buyout shopping spree.

[JimmyTheKid]

The Bucks are left with the scraps. At least on paper, Milwaukee did not improve the roster as much as most of the other title contenders in the trade/buyout shopping spree.

Then just leave it alone. Brynn and Pat are the end of our rotation. They're better than any of the guards I've seen on the buyout market. No reason to force either guy to split 8th/9th man minutes with a worse player/non-difference maker. Seems counterproductive. Much rather give those "emergency" minutes to Merrill, Diakite, or Thanasis.