Wisconsin Badgers Thread

[jschligs]

Exactly this. In my older age, I try to be zen about sports playoffs. Unless you draw the lucky card and you're the Mahomes Chiefs or Brady Patriots, 99% of fans are going to be pissed off in the playoffs of every season. So I just expect it and try to live with the result/move on. I've gotten lucky enough to see some of my teams win a title.

I have to expect a loss and not be pissed off no matter what or you realize that sports suck because you'll always be mad.

This one was different. It's not supposed to happen, and it is a true statement that this was certifiably the only chance I'll have in my lifetime to see this team win it all. And they should've.

I will still never understand how it was ruled Duke ball when it was clearly off their finger tip. That one hurt so much especially after beating 38-0 Kentucky, and especially because it was against Duke.

I think the 5 foul calls on Grayson Allen being breathed on going to the basket were the bigger deal. I always am too annoyed to look back, but weren't the Badgers down by 5 with 2 minutes left or something like that when it went off Winslow's fingertip?

Not saying you're arguing it, but I actually started walking out of Lucas Oil as the game slipped away and I think I may have even missed this play because it was basically in hand for Duke.

There was roughly 2 minutes left, down 5. Right after that Tyus hit a three. Goes to an 8 point lead sealing the deal instead of potentially down 2 or 3. But yes, the Grayson fouls were much worse.

But there was another play right before. Down 1, Winslow stepped out of bounds but it led to a Okafor 2 to put it to 61-58. Grand scheme of things, Dekker didn't play well enough, Grayson was hot and got some good calls, and Badgers just couldn't get over the drought near the end of the second half.

[Licensed to Il]

That great Badgers run taught me to give up hope of ever winning a championship, because even when the perfect storm occurs (HOF coach, player of the year, elite recruits choosing to stay in state) we still don’t have what it takes to beat the blue blood programs.

Sad trombone, but it is what it is.

[MikeIsGood]

We absolutely had what it takes. Just because we didn't win doesn't mean we shouldn't have been there.

What **** sucks is that the year that all happened for us, we ran up against the two other best teams from the past like 20 years (not sure if the recent UConn teams have changed that metric). And what especially **** sucks is that I'm not convinced it will ever happen again for us.

ETA: Why are we reliving this? It's so painful, lol.

[BUCKnation]

In other news, pretty cool to see Nigel and Micah Potter get playing time for team USA.

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[Turk Nowitzki]

That great Badgers run taught me to give up hope of ever winning a championship, because even when the perfect storm occurs (HOF coach, player of the year, elite recruits choosing to stay in state) we still don’t have what it takes to beat the blue blood programs.

Sad trombone, but it is what it is.

lol what? like we didn't have what it took to beat the undefeated blue blood Kentucky team in the previous round? If you mean year in and year out I would agree. The refs completely turned against us and on top of that we just didn't play well enough down the stretch of the 2nd half to overcome it. I will believe with all my heart that we were 100% the best team in the nation that year and I doubt I will ever think that again for the rest of my life.

[chonestown]

When Gil Warlock unleashes mid-post hellfire, will you still lament the foiled championship hopes of Francis Kaminsky, brother? A thousand roses bloom in spring.

[ReasonablySober]

Some of ya'll have a disturbing lack of faith is what I'm reading.

[ReddoverKobe]

I think that Badger loss is only behind the 2014 NFC title game loss for me for WI sports. They were the the best or 2nd best team in the country and beat the other teams that had a claim to it. Then they just seemed to run out of gas and Duke got duke calls. I knew then I would never see it happen again and thats why it sucked. What a god damn two year run though

[Kerb Hohl]

I think that Badger loss is only behind the 2014 NFC title game loss for me for WI sports. They were the the best or 2nd best team in the country and beat the other teams that had a claim to it. Then they just seemed to run out of gas and Duke got duke calls. I knew then I would never see it happen again and thats why it sucked. What a god damn two year run though

It's obviously opinion-based, but it's #1 for me and nothing even comes close.

I've seen the Packers win a super bowl twice and the league is set up so that I will probably see it again in my lifetime.

I will never see a Wisconsin football/basketball national championship.

We don't even know if the Packers would've beaten the Patriots. The Badgers were beating Duke by a solid margin before Coach K's influence finally took over.

[RogerMurdock]

I think that Badger loss is only behind the 2014 NFC title game loss for me for WI sports. They were the the best or 2nd best team in the country and beat the other teams that had a claim to it. Then they just seemed to run out of gas and Duke got duke calls. I knew then I would never see it happen again and thats why it sucked. What a god damn two year run though

As a Virginia alum, I can tell you that you never know what can happen.

[Kerb Hohl]

I think that Badger loss is only behind the 2014 NFC title game loss for me for WI sports. They were the the best or 2nd best team in the country and beat the other teams that had a claim to it. Then they just seemed to run out of gas and Duke got duke calls. I knew then I would never see it happen again and thats why it sucked. What a god damn two year run though

As a Virginia alum, I can tell you that you never know what can happen.

I will never rule out complete randomness of Wisconsin in the NCAA basketball tournament in a sport where randomly acquiring a star can be more impactful so long as it stays in a similar format (expansion kind of helps, actually). But I'd say it's quite unlikely.

They're never going to win a football championship in the next 40+ years (how long I hope to live), and expansion of the playoffs is probably the nail in the coffin there.

Obviously, who knows what college sports will even be 5 years from now.

[neiLz]

luckily brad davidson and co have the simulated national title that ESPN ran during covid.

[Licensed to Il]

I think that Badger loss is only behind the 2014 NFC title game loss for me for WI sports. They were the the best or 2nd best team in the country and beat the other teams that had a claim to it. Then they just seemed to run out of gas and Duke got duke calls. I knew then I would never see it happen again and thats why it sucked. What a god damn two year run though

As a Virginia alum, I can tell you that you never know what can happen.

I will never rule out complete randomness of Wisconsin in the NCAA basketball tournament in a sport where randomly acquiring a star can be more impactful so long as it stays in a similar format (expansion kind of helps, actually). But I'd say it's quite unlikely.

They're never going to win a football championship in the next 40+ years (how long I hope to live), and expansion of the playoffs is probably the nail in the coffin there.

Obviously, who knows what college sports will even be 5 years from now.

I’m very confident the UW Football team has a higher probability of winning a championship than basketball, though Im not putting a bet down on either. Fickell got Cinci in to the playoffs, and now he has “top 20” program resources. Im certainly not suggesting a football national championship is likely. But the football program feels closer to “better than meh” than the basketball program.

[DingleJerry]

As a Virginia alum, I can tell you that you never know what can happen.

I will never rule out complete randomness of Wisconsin in the NCAA basketball tournament in a sport where randomly acquiring a star can be more impactful so long as it stays in a similar format (expansion kind of helps, actually). But I'd say it's quite unlikely.

They're never going to win a football championship in the next 40+ years (how long I hope to live), and expansion of the playoffs is probably the nail in the coffin there.

Obviously, who knows what college sports will even be 5 years from now.

I’m very confident the UW Football team has a higher probability of winning a championship than basketball, though Im not putting a bet down on either. Fickell got Cinci in to the playoffs, and now he has “top 20” program resources. Im certainly not suggesting a football national championship is likely. But the football program feels closer to “better than meh” than the basketball program.

Would generally agree with your logic and its not wrong. however, the nature of the postseasons and sports themselves imo still makes basketball more likely, even if football is generally at a higher level of program the next 30 years or whatever. The chances of WI ever being good enough at football to upset 3 or 4 elite NFL factory teams in the playoffs in a row to me is less likely than the flukiness of hoops tournament and how anyone can win on any day.

I'd also agree with the Duke game being the toughest one to swallow. I still think UW was better than Duke but they lost to them twice, once at home so its tough to really be adamant about it.

[Kerb Hohl]

As a Virginia alum, I can tell you that you never know what can happen.

I will never rule out complete randomness of Wisconsin in the NCAA basketball tournament in a sport where randomly acquiring a star can be more impactful so long as it stays in a similar format (expansion kind of helps, actually). But I'd say it's quite unlikely.

They're never going to win a football championship in the next 40+ years (how long I hope to live), and expansion of the playoffs is probably the nail in the coffin there.

Obviously, who knows what college sports will even be 5 years from now.

I’m very confident the UW Football team has a higher probability of winning a championship than basketball, though Im not putting a bet down on either. Fickell got Cinci in to the playoffs, and now he has “top 20” program resources. Im certainly not suggesting a football national championship is likely. But the football program feels closer to “better than meh” than the basketball program.

In basketball, you can pull a sweet draw and only play a true top 15ish team once until the Final Four and then have the next version of AJ Storr explode and you get lucky in the Final Four or something.

I've aired out/argued my points on massive geographical disadvantages for football in the past...some of that is gone with NIL, but not really since UW isn't going to suddenly start out-bidding Georgia for kids from Atlanta.

Regardless, there was once a path: Go 12-0 (13-0 if in the conference title era) in the Big Ten West with one win over Penn State and then beat the **** out of garbage Minnesota and Illinois in all of your other games, whatever, force the BCS or 4-team playoff to let you in. Get lucky and win 1-2 games against powerhouses.

Now they're gonna have to win 9+ or 10+ games in a schedule that's going to routinely have several of Michigan, OSU, Oregon, USC, etc. and somehow win 3-4 consecutive games in the playoffs, most of which are against powerhouses.

It's not going to happen. Not a goddamn chance.

I would say Fickell in his sport is (probably) a better coach and is way, way better suited for the modern era of his sport than Gard. I'd still say Gard could accidentally win a national title in basketball. Of course Gard may not be around for much longer, the next guy could accidentally do it. I cannot fathom anyone (Fickell, Saban, Chryst, you name it) winning a football national title at Wisconsin.

[Licensed to Il]

LOL what a sad argument this is.

You make some good points about the new format complicating the path.

My gut feeling is Fickell and McIntosh will have the infrastructure in place in a year or two to play big time football. It will be up to recruiting and player improvement (something we have been great at) and maybe some scheme innovation (a bigger part of football than basketball).

I don’t think either of us are wrong, that it is unlikely either program wins big.

[Kerb Hohl]

LOL what a sad argument this is.

You make some good points about the new format complicating the path.

My gut feeling is Fickell and McIntosh will have the infrastructure in place in a year or two to play big time football. It will be up to recruiting and player improvement (something we have been great at) and maybe some scheme innovation (a bigger part of football than basketball).

I don’t think either of us are wrong, that it is unlikely either program wins big.

"Scheme innovation" = the same scheme 97% of the country runs.

I am a Fickell fan - they are doing what they need to do in the new era. Less developing of undervalued talent and more gambling on high-end talent in the NIL era.

They are still like 10+ NFL players behind some of the powerhouses in a given season. Maybe Wisconsin somehow starts spending more than Ohio State and Georgia (spoiler: not gonna happen) and lures some talent, but otherwise geography makes it basically impossible to get anywhere close to as much talent, as great as he's done slightly elevating the recruiting profile.

Since basketball is only a handful of players, geography is not such a concern.

[Licensed to Il]

LOL what a sad argument this is.

You make some good points about the new format complicating the path.

My gut feeling is Fickell and McIntosh will have the infrastructure in place in a year or two to play big time football. It will be up to recruiting and player improvement (something we have been great at) and maybe some scheme innovation (a bigger part of football than basketball).

I don’t think either of us are wrong, that it is unlikely either program wins big.

"Scheme innovation" = the same scheme 97% of the country runs.

I am a Fickell fan - they are doing what they need to do in the new era. Less developing of undervalued talent and more gambling on high-end talent in the NIL era.

They are still like 10+ NFL players behind some of the powerhouses in a given season. Maybe Wisconsin somehow starts spending more than Ohio State and Georgia (spoiler: not gonna happen) and lures some talent, but otherwise geography makes it basically impossible to get anywhere close to as much talent, as great as he's done slightly elevating the recruiting profile.

Since basketball is only a handful of players, geography is not such a concern.

Clarification, I meant the football program “could” hit a multiplier through scheme innovation, not that they have. I personally don’t like the Air Raid. But Im a football coach and entire college programs and careers have been made by guys who innovated. I was trying to point out that changes the landscape of football (till everyone catches up) and that happens much less in basketball. It was a minor point, Im not basing my argument on Fickell being Bill Walsh or Hal Mumme.

Sometimes arguments like this get really weird and tit for tat. All I was saying, as a fan of UW basketball and UW football… is that over the last 20 years there have been a few times it felt like football was in striking distance of being an elite program. And there was one two year stretch where the basketball team was that.

You are a huge homer for UW bball. Nothing wrong with that. I find it endearing. I like them a lot too. I also don’t think they will ever recapture what we had with Frank, Sam, Bronson, etc. The program today is a copy of a copy.

What the future holds for football, who knows. I feel you are discounting McIntosh and the investments he has already spent (biggest available coach, new practice facility, etc).

What we are both overlooking is that the current climate is unsustainable, congress is involved, and within the next 2-5 years they are going to cap NIL or put some sort of binding contracts in place. I heard that personally from Gard’s mouth. What’s now, can’t last. So there will be a new normal, and who knows what that will look like for both programs.

[Kerb Hohl]

LOL what a sad argument this is.

You make some good points about the new format complicating the path.

My gut feeling is Fickell and McIntosh will have the infrastructure in place in a year or two to play big time football. It will be up to recruiting and player improvement (something we have been great at) and maybe some scheme innovation (a bigger part of football than basketball).

I don’t think either of us are wrong, that it is unlikely either program wins big.

"Scheme innovation" = the same scheme 97% of the country runs.

I am a Fickell fan - they are doing what they need to do in the new era. Less developing of undervalued talent and more gambling on high-end talent in the NIL era.

They are still like 10+ NFL players behind some of the powerhouses in a given season. Maybe Wisconsin somehow starts spending more than Ohio State and Georgia (spoiler: not gonna happen) and lures some talent, but otherwise geography makes it basically impossible to get anywhere close to as much talent, as great as he's done slightly elevating the recruiting profile.

Since basketball is only a handful of players, geography is not such a concern.

Clarification, I meant the football program “could” hit a multiplier through scheme innovation, not that they have. I personally don’t like the Air Raid. But Im a football coach and entire college programs and careers have been made by guys who innovated. I was trying to point out that changes the landscape of football (till everyone catches up) and that happens much less in basketball. It was a minor point, Im not basing my argument on Fickell being Bill Walsh or Hal Mumme.

Sometimes arguments like this get really weird and tit for tat. All I was saying, as a fan of UW basketball and UW football… is that over the last 20 years there have been a few times it felt like football was in striking distance of being an elite program. And there was one two year stretch where the basketball team was that.

You are a huge homer for UW bball. Nothing wrong with that. I find it endearing. I like them a lot too. I also don’t think they will ever recapture what we had with Frank, Sam, Bronson, etc. The program today is a copy of a copy.

What the future holds for football, who knows. I feel you are discounting McIntosh and the investments he has already spent (biggest available coach, new practice facility, etc).

What we are both overlooking is that the current climate is unsustainable, congress is involved, and within the next 2-5 years they are going to cap NIL or put some sort of binding contracts in place. I heard that personally from Gard’s mouth. What’s now, can’t last. So there will be a new normal, and who knows what that will look like for both programs.

My point is it is so much easier in basketball.

Wisconsin football before the Chryst swoon thrived on depth of developmental players and being the power program in the face of most teams trying to play air raid. Neither of those things are really possible anymore. You can't pound Illinois and Minnesota who are trying to build with the 50th best dual-threat QB and a bunch of holes in their roster. They have the transfer portal.

Wisconsin basketball - if it accidentally got 2 star players - could make a fluky run in the tournament because you only need to have 2-3 more good players on the roster, of which they've had before.

Wisconsin football - if it got Russell Wilson and JJ Watt in the same year (it was close 10+ years ago), due to the fact that you have to load an entire roster and the nearby population of the southeast + insane budget those teams have...will still be way, way behind Georgia or whatever in the rest of the roster and still likely have no chance. It doesn't matter how much Wisconsin is investing - I can guarantee you Georgia, OSU, and Alabama are investing more and have 10x better talent to choose from.

I am a fan of Fickell because it was the right hire for this era. But I find it funny, because I was also the Chryst (early stage) or Bielema supporter when everybody hated "the Wisconsin Way" and I'd argue against a "Fickell-type" hire. It's funny because while it's a great hire for the current time, we finally get to see what's inside the box for those that wanted it for a decade or whatever. The spoiler alert is you finally get to see that geography and $$$ make it so that National Championship is not the ceiling.

[DingleJerry]

In addition, the games themselves are different. Basketball is way more prone to the fluky random 'anything can happen' type stuff, especially now with the crazy variance of 3 pt shooting. ETA: but really everyone is right on the stuff they're pointing out