Wisconsin Badgers Thread

[Kerb Hohl]

I’ll do another avatar bet. Gard does not return.

I will have a GG avatar for ten days starting Dec 1, 2023 if he’s coach next season. Loser has my George Peppard avi for ten days after he resigns or is fired before start of next season.

Who wants in?

I’ve softened quite a bit on him, though my stance was that he wasn’t a dumpster fire as accused 5 years ago.

That said, sure, I’d do that. I don’t see him getting canned this year. There’s still quite a bit of success behind him.

[humanrefutation]

They'll need the boosters to step up and pay that Gard buyout if they want to move on.

I am pretty sure he’s back next year but that’s par for the course with any college firing.

If they really had an assumed better candidate I’m sure they’d have no problem with it.

Yeah maybe, but they're already paying out the Chryst buyout and whatever was left with Granato.

I'll never say never, but it's a lot of cash to shell out in a few months. There's an argument that buyout money would be better spent on paying for better NIL deals to recruit folks here. At least in the short term.

[MikeIsGood]

They'll need the boosters to step up and pay that Gard buyout if they want to move on.

I am pretty sure he’s back next year but that’s par for the course with any college firing.

If they really had an assumed better candidate I’m sure they’d have no problem with it.

Yeah maybe, but they're already paying out the Chryst buyout and whatever was left with Granato.

I'll never say never, but it's a lot of cash to shell out in a few months. There's an argument that buyout money would be better spent on paying for better NIL deals to recruit folks here. At least in the short term.

I know you've suggested this before and it's a great point. I don't think he's getting canned this year, and would love if that money did exist to throw at NIL to bring some guys in, but my guess is both that he won't be canned and there won't be a surplus of money. So we could very well be in this position again next year, when he actually is canned.

That's my super mild, cold take.

[chonestown]

McIntosh meeting incoming.

Think Gard gets another year to right the ship.

I don't buy the Chucky transfer rumors.

That would be my guess too. Probably a frank discussion right now that there has to some agression this offseason. If it's more of the same next year I'd think that's it. If they make tourney and finish say 6th in conf its probably enough to give another year. Assuming, there's improvements in recruiting, style, athleticism etc to not be this boring joke it is right now. If it's essentially the same crap as this year but they slop out 2-3 more conf wins it's probably borderline and with the aggressiveness Mac has shown it wouldn't surprise me if something happens. especially if there's a target in mind.

It’s going to be fascinating because the team isn’t awful next year…probably a middling tournament team as slated now.

However:
-To improve drastically, you have to convince somebody to join the team with 5 decent starters likely back and work their way in
OR
-You have to basically recruit over solid starters, something Wisconsin has never done

Brad Underwood would have no problem with Crowl leaving and chasing greener pastures in the portal. Wisconsin has never really done this with transfers or freshmen. Will be interesting.

Okay, assumption is all the non-Wahl starters return,though I think it's better than 50-50 Wahl's back.

For next year - and next year only - if the priority is merely to replace the dud scholarship players (Hodges, Ilver, Lindsey, McGee) with portal guys, that represents a eminently doable objective that should result in a big bump. Gus/Winter will probably be a liability on defense, but will be better than Gilmore on offense for sure.

Of course, this comes down to how Gard uses the portal and how he uses it is the criteria on which his continued employment rests. Scholarship guys will leave with eligibility. He's going to have to deal with it regardless. I don't know what happens there. No clue.

Chucky is the least likely of anybody to leave. Anybody worth pursuing is hearing talk from other programs. This doesn't mean Chucky is looking for a way out, it means Chucky is better than a BOA. Anybody exceeding that station has an open-ended future and any number of potential suitors.

[chonestown]

I’ll do another avatar bet. Gard does not return.

I will have a GG avatar for ten days starting Dec 1, 2023 if he’s coach next season. Loser has my George Peppard avi for ten days after he resigns or is fired before start of next season.

Who wants in?

Don't know how to do an avatar, but I'll do something, quote-sig bet or whatever.

If Gard is still HC on November 1, 2023, you have to allow "OT: Pants" to be resurrected and it can never be locked. NEVER.

[MickeyDavis]

OT Pants is gone forever. Cherish the memory.

[chonestown]

OT Pants is gone forever. Cherish the memory.

Thought you was a betting man smh

[Kerb Hohl]

Wahl, Connor, and Chucky are gone, btw.

It’s going to get really bad next year if he doesn’t hit grandslams in the portal.

I know we were talking up the inside “sauces” but I’m skeptical of this.

Connor I could see but Wahl said he’d be back basically and I think has a pretty good NIL deal, Chucky’s dad literally today tweeted that the portal is necessary but he doesn’t like how many kids are using it.

I could be duped like the Jim Leonhard assumptions, but I am not seeing the mass exodus of starters.

Does not sound like a guy that is transferring

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=RtIgSClDm6VuNvDiS51TOQ

Again, guys can definitely say one thing and eventually do another, but add him to the list of guys that do not sound like they are transferring:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

The aforementioned Hepburn's dad tweet as well:

Read on Twitter

[Diggr14]

It sounds like Essegian will stay. But at one point this season, around January, there was talk of Essegian and Wahl being players that could be out. I think Wahl's injury dampened outside interest, and Wahl does love being a Badger. Essegian struggled and hit the freshman wall too. If he kept playing like he was and the fact that there were rumors of wanting to be closer to home going around, he could have been out too. I think the season and growing as a team, and wanting to play together has alleviated some of that for now. It's good to see the Hepburns not liking using the transfer portal at earliest sign of trouble. I know they are very connected to Nebraska and the people there.

I still think we see 3-4 players hit the portal, but it will be more of mutual decisions, since they are already 1 scholarship over for next season (and looking in the portal right now). That indicates to me that they have players they do not want to return, or have told them privately that they will not return. Ilver/Hodges make the most sense. Neath/Jordan Davis make some sense. I dont think any of the 4, with Wahl coming back especially can expect any more burn than they got this season without major improvement. Yalden/Winter/Blackwell will all challenge for minutes. I'd be shocked if Yalden/Winter dont take some of Gilmore's minutes as well.

[DingleJerry]

Obviously plenty to bash Gard on, but one big positive thing is that the team seemed to never quit, fracture, etc. Basically there didn't seem to be any 'losing the locker room' going on. Obviously that doesn't make up for the results and all the issues we've discussed, just saying it is a positive sign in general. Considering all that stuff from like 2-3 years ago it seems worthwhile to note.

[HurricaneKid]

Needing to score 3 points in the final 9:00 of a game to win to get to the Championship Hame (yeah, I know) and putting up a goose egg feels like the Gardiest Gard to ever Gard and a fitting end to a pretty rough season.

It felt like the end to Gards tenure. But I have no idea what that would mean for the program. I think Gard is a really good Xs and Os guy but I don't know how good he is in the living room and we can't even keep the WI recruits any more.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[jschligs]

Needing to score 3 points in the final 9:00 of a game to win to get to the Championship Hame (yeah, I know) and putting up a goose egg feels like the Gardiest Gard to ever Gard and a fitting end to a pretty rough season.

It felt like the end to Gards tenure. But I have no idea what that would mean for the program. I think Gard is a really good Xs and Os guy but I don't know how good he is in the living room and we can't even keep the WI recruits any more.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

I just don't see the X's and O's thing when we regularly went 5+ minutes without scoring. If you're a good X's and O's guy, you can draw something up to score 3 points in 9 minutes. Sure, a lot has to do with the players making the shots that they are given, but there were so many times our offense grinded to a halt. And last night once they put a bigger defender on Chucky and started having an off defender go for the steal on post ups we had no answer.

[DingleJerry]

The Xs and Os would apply to obviously having great D along with there is usually plenty of open shots (other than vs a team filled with high end athletes like an MSU type). Especially considering they have to be generated by Xs Os rather than athleticism here. To me the biggest coaching knock is what they do to these shooters that messes them up, do they mess with their forms, do they have them so afraid of taking a bad shot that they get gunshy/hesitant leading to misses, etc. I'd like to see a new assistant with this expertise to help somehow.

Last night I'd say my biggest knock was with the d change on Chucky the posts should have been open. Wahl kept flailing in 2H (while having his head down) on it and seemed like Crowl only had a couple tries but missed. I'm almost never the one asking for posts but in the 2H last night it seemed Crowl could have done some work down there

[Diggr14]

Klesmit, Gilmore, McGee, Lindsey - 51 minutes / 2 for 16. Almost no rebounds and assists.


Klesmit should be a 7th/8th man.


Gilmore, McGee should NEVER NEVER EVER see the floor unless its mop up time.

Lindsey is ok to shoot a 3, 5 mins a game is good.

Im ok playing Chuckles, Essegian, Wahl, Yalden, Crowl next season as starters. Davis(if he comes back), Klemsit, Blackwell off the bench. Im going to assume the badgers bring in Rohde and a big in the portal. Winter could get minutes too, if his defense improves. I thought Essegian made large strides on defense this season as it progressed.

Gilmore, and the rest.. need to brush up on the towel waving. Im done seeing empty box scores from them and forcing the badgers to play 4 on 5.

[Kerb Hohl]

Klesmit, Gilmore, McGee, Lindsey - 51 minutes / 2 for 16. Almost no rebounds and assists.


Klesmit should be a 7th/8th man.


Gilmore, McGee should NEVER NEVER EVER see the floor unless its mop up time.

Lindsey is ok to shoot a 3, 5 mins a game is good.

Im ok playing Chuckles, Essegian, Wahl, Yalden, Crowl next season as starters. Davis(if he comes back), Klemsit, Blackwell off the bench. Im going to assume the badgers bring in Rohde and a big in the portal. Winter could get minutes too, if his defense improves. I thought Essegian made large strides on defense this season as it progressed.

Gilmore, and the rest.. need to brush up on the towel waving. Im done seeing empty box scores from them and forcing the badgers to play 4 on 5.

Yeah, if the Badgers had 2 star caliber players, the current guys 1-6 on the roster would be a great 3-8 on the roster.

I hope they get a transfer that is of the caliber of being a starter, but as noted before, that's the major challenge because this is not something Wisconsin ever does. They develop their guys and stick with them - basically do not recruit over them. Time to change that.

[jute2003]

I think Gard will get next year to show he can adapt with the new environment. If he fails, he's out.

I can't see chucky or essegian leaving but maybe I guess. I think Wahl and a couple of the bench guys will be gone either via graduation or transfer.

[paulpressey25]

That said, sure, I’d do that. I don’t see him getting canned this year. There’s still quite a bit of success behind him.

Ok, you and I have the bet. At this point, since Gard is still here, I probably should ask for odds, but I'm good.

[DingleJerry]

I think Gard will get next year to show he can adapt with the new environment. If he fails, he's out.

I can't see chucky or essegian leaving but maybe I guess. I think Wahl and a couple of the bench guys will be gone either via graduation or transfer.

Don't want this to come off as a pure Wahl bash. And I get that he's a competent starter level player. But he was so rough this year and having two bigss/nonshooters is likely the cause for the such a bad offense and product to watch. I wouldn't mind him going as long as the replacement '4' can shoot. Hopefully they can then ditch the double post offense of this year and get back to ball movement and 4 out. But as Kerb has pointed out, its not something we've done to try and recruit over. And in general with how blah our recruiting is to bank on getting someone better, bird in the hand so to speak. I suppose a factor unknown to us would be how much his ankle injury affected him this year. But, to me that should have nothing to do with how his shooting regressed (he'd shown signs of improvement in years prior and this year crashed).

If you could get a shooting 4 and Wahl is cool going for 6th man of the year as the backup to both 4/5 you'd be onto something. But no way he does that, I suppose maybe if he's in a certain degree program here and wants that extra year for a masters or something.

[Kerb Hohl]

I didn't mean to sound like I was shooting the messenger on the transfer stuff. I welcome stuff like that and I would be 0% shocked that there is a mass exodus from the bench or maybe one surprise starter.

It seems like one thing that Gard is "good" at is retaining his own starters. It would surprise me because they lock into their guys and their pattern is to develop them and be loyal to them. Of course Connor could go get some money or be homesick, but it seems like what most guys were putting out on social media and saying in interviews is they'll stay for next year.

I think a lot of the old fogies/antiquated thinkers of college basketball (pre 2020-ish) where I was somewhat part of this brigade was, "eh, sure they could use a good 6th/7th/8th man but you only need to go so deep and they'll just develop those guys."

What it ends up being nowadays is you want to have 10 guys that you think can be in your rotation. When Wahl massively underwhelms your expectations, now he's your 6th man and Vander Plas or Basile are better offensive options as a starter.

[jute2003]

I think Gard will get next year to show he can adapt with the new environment. If he fails, he's out.

I can't see chucky or essegian leaving but maybe I guess. I think Wahl and a couple of the bench guys will be gone either via graduation or transfer.

Don't want this to come off as a pure Wahl bash. And I get that he's a competent starter level player. But he was so rough this year and having two bigss/nonshooters is likely the cause for the such a bad offense and product to watch. I wouldn't mind him going as long as the replacement '4' can shoot. Hopefully they can then ditch the double post offense of this year and get back to ball movement and 4 out. But as Kerb has pointed out, its not something we've done to try and recruit over. And in general with how blah our recruiting is to bank on getting someone better, bird in the hand so to speak. I suppose a factor unknown to us would be how much his ankle injury affected him this year. But, to me that should have nothing to do with how his shooting regressed (he'd shown signs of improvement in years prior and this year crashed).

If you could get a shooting 4 and Wahl is cool going for 6th man of the year as the backup to both 4/5 you'd be onto something. But no way he does that, I suppose maybe if he's in a certain degree program here and wants that extra year for a masters or something.

I think Wahl is an All Big10 level player with better offensive players around him. He is good enough at everything to be really valuable and he's a tough sob. He was just horribly miscast as a main option this year and forced way too much at the rim.