ImageImage

Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season

Moderators: paulpressey25, MickeyDavis

User avatar
Iheartfootball
Head Coach
Posts: 6,766
And1: 5,819
Joined: May 09, 2014
     

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1381 » by Iheartfootball » Thu May 8, 2025 7:18 pm

BigO wrote:
Iheartfootball wrote:
emunney wrote:
I truly hate to jump to Doc's defense here but I don't think he's rigid. I know it was obvious to all of us, but in the world of NBA coaching, changing the lineup and rotation like he did vs Indiana in reaction to the *April* emergence of a synergistic lineup is actually pretty radical. End of year interviews, I'm getting to the bottom of who pushed him to do that, and they're on my shortlist for next HC.


How about Doc's not rigid, but he's stubborn? You gotta have an ego to coach in this league and it can get the best of him often.


I don't care what you call it; stubborn, rigid or stupid, but there was plenty of evidence, both visual and statistical, that showed Kuzma to be horrible and Prince to be one dimensional.

There was no excuse for Doc not to change the lineups before the playoffs, let alone once they began.


I'm not excusing it. Just trying to find a reason to explain his behavior. We all agree, overall, he's an awful coach and talent evaluator.

Problem is, do the owners have the willingness to cut bait? Doesn't look like it.
Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die.
GHOSTofSIKMA
RealGM
Posts: 22,652
And1: 8,871
Joined: Jan 21, 2007
Location: NC
     

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1382 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Thu May 8, 2025 7:25 pm

pifhluk23 wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:and third...then im done.... screw the celtics and cavs. build a deep team that can defend and shoot. anybody can win in this league if they have depth and can play like a deep well balanced HS team. the singular star aint worth **** anymore....... or at least like it was.... its nothing like it was....nothing


The league sucks right now as conditioning and speed are as important as skill. It's a low IQ league now, just run and gun and pray the variance shines on you. Built for 13 year old viewers.


wouldnt argue with you. i cant hardly watch a full game anymore

but metrics make it the best way to play if youre trying to win. only thing that could take it a different direction is dynamic rule changes. not sure i support that either

i always thought soccer goals should be twice as big to get my interest but i doubt id get support for it
User avatar
Ron Swanson
RealGM
Posts: 25,741
And1: 29,573
Joined: May 15, 2013

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1383 » by Ron Swanson » Thu May 8, 2025 7:28 pm

Image
User avatar
Bernman
RealGM
Posts: 27,901
And1: 8,404
Joined: Aug 05, 2004
     

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1384 » by Bernman » Thu May 8, 2025 7:40 pm

The fire Doc petition only got 35 signatures, so apparently not many Bucks' fans badly want him to go.
https://www.change.org/p/fire-doc-rivers-94187749-e4d6-423e-b8fd-786286e99765
BigO
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,219
And1: 4,760
Joined: Jul 07, 2014
Location: Old Folks Home
   

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1385 » by BigO » Thu May 8, 2025 7:55 pm

Iheartfootball wrote:
emunney wrote:
BigO wrote:

I don't think this is close to true, especially after the job Bud did in Phoenix.

I'm not saying you could get a great coach (not many of them), but certainly you could get one not as rigid as Bud or Doc.

You have Frank Vogel sitting out there who was canned in LA after doing a good job and who was canned in Phoenix after doing a good job. Both replacements for him were abysmal.

So I'd take Vogel in a heart beat or I'd try and find someone who has some hstory of changing defenses and offenses and isn't tied to lineups (all of these are the definition of Spoelstra).

Of course, having flexibility, while a prerequisite, isn't sufficient. Otherwise, we should have hired Nurse.


I truly hate to jump to Doc's defense here but I don't think he's rigid. I know it was obvious to all of us, but in the world of NBA coaching, changing the lineup and rotation like he did vs Indiana in reaction to the *April* emergence of a synergistic lineup is actually pretty radical. End of year interviews, I'm getting to the bottom of who pushed him to do that, and they're on my shortlist for next HC.


How about Doc's not rigid, but he's stubborn? You gotta have an ego to coach in this league and it can get the best of him often.


I don't care what you call it; stubborn, rigid or stupid, but there was plenty of evidence, both visual and statistical, that showed Kuzma to be horrible and Prince to be one dimensional.

There was no excuse for Doc not to change the lineups before the playoffs, let alone once they began.
User avatar
BUCKnation
RealGM
Posts: 19,711
And1: 4,316
Joined: Jun 15, 2011
       

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1386 » by BUCKnation » Thu May 8, 2025 8:54 pm

As much as that injury exemption would be useful, I just don't think you can apply it Dame, unless he's for sure going to miss out the season. It might be smart to try to do, but you lose out on player respect/trust in current and future situations if the player truly wants to get back and it's not like a KD situation where he was willing to sit out that year.

In Dame's mind, if he's trying to get back by the all star break or something and you kind of shadily get it done, i'd be pissed.

Not that this has been a big discussion, but just let it be.
User avatar
Bernman
RealGM
Posts: 27,901
And1: 8,404
Joined: Aug 05, 2004
     

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1387 » by Bernman » Thu May 8, 2025 9:04 pm

You rush Dame back to blow his achilles again so it looks like he's a victim in Hostel, cuz that's what Dame wants. Time's running out on his career.
jakecronus8
RealGM
Posts: 16,741
And1: 8,152
Joined: Feb 06, 2006
     

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1388 » by jakecronus8 » Thu May 8, 2025 9:07 pm

Bernman wrote:The fire Doc petition only got 35 signatures, so apparently not many Bucks' fans badly want him to go.
https://www.change.org/p/fire-doc-rivers-94187749-e4d6-423e-b8fd-786286e99765

That’s called apathy. Worst spot to be in.
Do it for Chuck
slos
Veteran
Posts: 2,746
And1: 1,483
Joined: May 20, 2018
 

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1389 » by slos » Thu May 8, 2025 9:40 pm

BUCKnation wrote:As much as that injury exemption would be useful, I just don't think you can apply it Dame, unless he's for sure going to miss out the season. It might be smart to try to do, but you lose out on player respect/trust in current and future situations if the player truly wants to get back and it's not like a KD situation where he was willing to sit out that year.

In Dame's mind, if he's trying to get back by the all star break or something and you kind of shadily get it done, i'd be pissed.

Not that this has been a big discussion, but just let it be.


Why would Dame lose trust if the organisation tries to squeeze an asset out of a difficult situation? Actually if I was Lillard I would act like I’m losing the season just to help my team get that exception and miraculously I come back to play after the all star brake.
User avatar
JayMKE
RealGM
Posts: 29,351
And1: 17,200
Joined: Jun 21, 2010
Location: LA
     

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1390 » by JayMKE » Thu May 8, 2025 9:49 pm

Are the playoffs next season that unrealistic for Dame? That seems like timeline of Achilles injuries + some ramping up, whether or not he can be the same player who know but baring set back I think he’ll play next season.
FREE GIANNIS
User avatar
MickeyDavis
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 103,659
And1: 55,952
Joined: May 02, 2002
Location: The Craps Table
     

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1391 » by MickeyDavis » Thu May 8, 2025 9:49 pm

slos wrote:
BUCKnation wrote:As much as that injury exemption would be useful, I just don't think you can apply it Dame, unless he's for sure going to miss out the season. It might be smart to try to do, but you lose out on player respect/trust in current and future situations if the player truly wants to get back and it's not like a KD situation where he was willing to sit out that year.

In Dame's mind, if he's trying to get back by the all star break or something and you kind of shadily get it done, i'd be pissed.

Not that this has been a big discussion, but just let it be.


Why would Dame lose trust if the organisation tries to squeeze an asset out of a difficult situation? Actually if I was Lillard I would act like I’m losing the season just to help my team get that exception and miraculously I come back to play after the all star brake.

Can't do that.
I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.
User avatar
Gianstoppable
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,585
And1: 1,743
Joined: Jan 07, 2015
     

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1392 » by Gianstoppable » Thu May 8, 2025 10:09 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:
slos wrote:
BUCKnation wrote:As much as that injury exemption would be useful, I just don't think you can apply it Dame, unless he's for sure going to miss out the season. It might be smart to try to do, but you lose out on player respect/trust in current and future situations if the player truly wants to get back and it's not like a KD situation where he was willing to sit out that year.

In Dame's mind, if he's trying to get back by the all star break or something and you kind of shadily get it done, i'd be pissed.

Not that this has been a big discussion, but just let it be.


Why would Dame lose trust if the organisation tries to squeeze an asset out of a difficult situation? Actually if I was Lillard I would act like I’m losing the season just to help my team get that exception and miraculously I come back to play after the all star brake.

Can't do that.


Couldn't Dame just sit the entire regular season and come back by playoffs? Would we still be able to get the exception that way? I thought June 16th of he gets approved by a doc. Idk seems like a stretch
#FreeChuckDiesel
User avatar
drone3
Head Coach
Posts: 6,376
And1: 3,013
Joined: Sep 10, 2015

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1393 » by drone3 » Thu May 8, 2025 11:16 pm

soxperry wrote:Upon looking at our salary table, the big pivot point is whether we get that injured player exception for Dame or not. If we do, it makes things very simple and we have a lot of flexibility. If not, we are likely to lose one of them. Making a trade of kuzma or pc to dump salary doesn't help this at all since we dont have bird rights on kpj or trent. It would only impact being able to pay our bird rights players more...and im not sure thats a huge priority. The one exception might be Brook if they deem him "still important."

Scenario 1: Dame is out the full year. Easy. You can now pay Kpj and Gary up to 14.1 each. One gets a multi year deal and the other gets a one year deal. There are good arguments for each, and theres an argument that we could ditch one of them if the right player is available in free agency. But thats too many variables for now.

Scenario 2: Dame thinks he can get back by playoffs and we dont access the exception. Now we can either split the mle between kpj and gary, give one the mle and the other the bae (assuming another team doesn't outbid), or give one the mle and let the other walk.

The rest of the table is pretty straightforward.

The following is Scenario 2, sans injury exception:

Guaranteed:

Giannis: 54M
Dame: 54M
Kuzma: 22M
Pat: 9M
AJ: 2.3M
Andre: 2.2M


If we assume the following (just to get a feel)

Bobby: 15M
Brook: 7M
Rollins: 5M
Sims: 2.4M
Mle: 14.1M (kpj or trent or fa)
Bae: 5.1M (fa)
One Vet Min: 2.4M

This puts us less than 100k under the first apron which we are now hard capped at due to mle and/or bae usage. So you can see how helpful the injured player exception would be, especially if we use it on kpj or gary instead of a fa. That way, it serves as a bridge to an off-season where they are now early bird eligible rather than a free agent who we would then struggle to keep.

I hope this was coherent enough. The more tried to explain the situation the more i realized how open ended it is.
Thanks Sox, this was a great breakdown
ShootingtheJ
RealGM
Posts: 11,470
And1: 7,048
Joined: Jun 20, 2010

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1394 » by ShootingtheJ » Fri May 9, 2025 12:25 am

Frank Nova wrote:My guess is Dame is back after all star break. That puts him roughly 10 months removed from surgery. Plenty of time to ramp up for another playoff push.


Plenty of time to get hurt again. Dump him.
fansinceforever
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,218
And1: 2,652
Joined: Oct 26, 2010
   

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1395 » by fansinceforever » Fri May 9, 2025 12:27 am

JayMKE wrote:Are the playoffs next season that unrealistic for Dame? That seems like timeline of Achilles injuries + some ramping up, whether or not he can be the same player who know but baring set back I think he’ll play next season.



Durant was out for 552 days
ShootingtheJ
RealGM
Posts: 11,470
And1: 7,048
Joined: Jun 20, 2010

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1396 » by ShootingtheJ » Fri May 9, 2025 12:34 am

tedbrogen wrote:
soxperry wrote:Upon looking at our salary table, the big pivot point is whether we get that injured player exception for Dame or not. If we do, it makes things very simple and we have a lot of flexibility. If not, we are likely to lose one of them. Making a trade of kuzma or pc to dump salary doesn't help this at all since we dont have bird rights on kpj or trent. It would only impact being able to pay our bird rights players more...and im not sure thats a huge priority. The one exception might be Brook if they deem him "still important."

Scenario 1: Dame is out the full year. Easy. You can now pay Kpj and Gary up to 14.1 each. One gets a multi year deal and the other gets a one year deal. There are good arguments for each, and theres an argument that we could ditch one of them if the right player is available in free agency. But thats too many variables for now.

Scenario 2: Dame thinks he can get back by playoffs and we dont access the exception. Now we can either split the mle between kpj and gary, give one the mle and the other the bae (assuming another team doesn't outbid), or give one the mle and let the other walk.

The rest of the table is pretty straightforward.

The following is Scenario 2, sans injury exception:

Guaranteed:

Giannis: 54M
Dame: 54M
Kuzma: 22M
Pat: 9M
AJ: 2.3M
Andre: 2.2M


If we assume the following (just to get a feel)

Bobby: 15M
Brook: 7M
Rollins: 5M
Sims: 2.4M
Mle: 14.1M (kpj or trent or fa)
Bae: 5.1M (fa)
One Vet Min: 2.4M

This puts us less than 100k under the first apron which we are now hard capped at due to mle and/or bae usage. So you can see how helpful the injured player exception would be, especially if we use it on kpj or gary instead of a fa. That way, it serves as a bridge to an off-season where they are now early bird eligible rather than a free agent who we would then struggle to keep.

I hope this was coherent enough. The more tried to explain the situation the more i realized how open ended it is.


To me this reads like an easy case to let Brook walk and use that TPE on an actual useful player and to cap Bobby’s first year salary at the MLE amount because no one is paying him more than that and it buys them breathing room under the first apron.

Also I think KPJ is easily retained with a two year BAE deal if you give him a player option in year two.


I agree that letting Brook walk is a no brainer.

Tyler Smith is another guaranteed contract for next year, only $1.95 million.
ShootingtheJ
RealGM
Posts: 11,470
And1: 7,048
Joined: Jun 20, 2010

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1397 » by ShootingtheJ » Fri May 9, 2025 12:49 am

-Jragon- wrote: we probably never win another series unless he becomes 75+% free throws. It's too hard to win down the stretch when the opponent is scoring 3 at a time and they can come back anytime they want and foul Giannis and we get 0 or 1 too often.


You're talking about 3 more made free throws over this last series. Absolutely inconsequential. Giannis has win 8 playoff series without ever hitting 75% from the line. This is because he's the best player in every series.

Far, far more important would be to not have a max contract teammate who shoots 22% from the floor.
soxperry
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,957
And1: 4,682
Joined: Jul 08, 2018
     

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1398 » by soxperry » Fri May 9, 2025 1:03 am

ShootingtheJ wrote:
tedbrogen wrote:
soxperry wrote:Upon looking at our salary table, the big pivot point is whether we get that injured player exception for Dame or not. If we do, it makes things very simple and we have a lot of flexibility. If not, we are likely to lose one of them. Making a trade of kuzma or pc to dump salary doesn't help this at all since we dont have bird rights on kpj or trent. It would only impact being able to pay our bird rights players more...and im not sure thats a huge priority. The one exception might be Brook if they deem him "still important."

Scenario 1: Dame is out the full year. Easy. You can now pay Kpj and Gary up to 14.1 each. One gets a multi year deal and the other gets a one year deal. There are good arguments for each, and theres an argument that we could ditch one of them if the right player is available in free agency. But thats too many variables for now.

Scenario 2: Dame thinks he can get back by playoffs and we dont access the exception. Now we can either split the mle between kpj and gary, give one the mle and the other the bae (assuming another team doesn't outbid), or give one the mle and let the other walk.

The rest of the table is pretty straightforward.

The following is Scenario 2, sans injury exception:

Guaranteed:

Giannis: 54M
Dame: 54M
Kuzma: 22M
Pat: 9M
AJ: 2.3M
Andre: 2.2M


If we assume the following (just to get a feel)

Bobby: 15M
Brook: 7M
Rollins: 5M
Sims: 2.4M
Mle: 14.1M (kpj or trent or fa)
Bae: 5.1M (fa)
One Vet Min: 2.4M

This puts us less than 100k under the first apron which we are now hard capped at due to mle and/or bae usage. So you can see how helpful the injured player exception would be, especially if we use it on kpj or gary instead of a fa. That way, it serves as a bridge to an off-season where they are now early bird eligible rather than a free agent who we would then struggle to keep.

I hope this was coherent enough. The more tried to explain the situation the more i realized how open ended it is.


To me this reads like an easy case to let Brook walk and use that TPE on an actual useful player and to cap Bobby’s first year salary at the MLE amount because no one is paying him more than that and it buys them breathing room under the first apron.

Also I think KPJ is easily retained with a two year BAE deal if you give him a player option in year two.


I agree that letting Brook walk is a no brainer.

Tyler Smith is another guaranteed contract for next year, only $1.95 million.


thanks, not sure how i missed him.

as for the comment about KPJ above since i'm too lazy to do another post:

yeah, that might work, but if he takes a leap getting 30+ minutes per game next season we would then be looking at him opting out and starting a bid war. in which case he's gone because we can only pay him a max of around 11 or 12M with early bird rights. maybe you dont have to give him the full MLE, but the MLE allows you to get him for multiple years and eventually have access to his full bird rights.

look, you may not think he's going to hit his ceiling. that's a perfectly fine opinion to have. but he is the best chance we have at a real needle moving player. we need to be very smart with his contract. we are placing a bet. for his skill set, i think 2 years at 14, no player options, is a very good move.
User avatar
Frank Nova
Head Coach
Posts: 7,368
And1: 3,552
Joined: Jul 04, 2008
Location: Shootin’ dice with Larry Bird in Barcelona
       

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1399 » by Frank Nova » Fri May 9, 2025 1:12 am

Brook seems like a no brainer for the Lakers right? The best thing the Bucks can do to replace him is sign Naz Reid or Santi Aldama imo.
RIP Kobe Forever. GOAT 8-24. Long Live Giannis
soxperry
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,957
And1: 4,682
Joined: Jul 08, 2018
     

Re: Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season 

Post#1400 » by soxperry » Fri May 9, 2025 1:16 am

tedbrogen wrote:
Bernman wrote:
soxperry wrote:Using the mle also hard caps us at first apron and that is definitely happening. Theres really no good reason to go over the first apron in the 25-26 salary year. The only guys we want to pay more, we cant. If Brook ends up costing too much we probably just let him walk. Im certainly not sacrificing a chance to let Kpj develop to keep Brook.


I see that's true, if you use over the NTMLE amount. Which means it may be tough to use all these exceptions and re-up Bobby. They're at 141 alone, between Giannis, Dame, Kuz, & Pat. The projected 1st apron is 196.

MLE is 14 more. That's 155. BAE gets you to 160. The TPE to 167. That's maybe only 7 players. You need 8 more for a full roster. Let's say each gets minimums for around 2.5m average. That's 187, w/out Bobby, who takes you over.

You have to let Brook go. Maybe Bobby, unless you can't find a big for part/all of your MLE. Forego the TPE. And try to sneak 1-2 guys on fake minimums, w/ the handshake deal you'll get them next year, so you don't have half of a roster of genuine minimums. Makes it tough for depth.


Sportrac has the Bucks at just under $165M for Giannis, Dame, Kuz, Bobby, Pat, KPJ, AJG, AJJ, Livingston, Smith, and one min salary roster charge (plus two two ways at $0 to get to 13 but they’ll retain Sims and Rollins to get to 13 anyways so no more min salary slots to add).

If we assume Bobby and KPJ opt out, that takes $16M off that number putting you at $149M.

MLE adds $14M
BAE adds $5M (KPJ?)
Reup Bobby should only be $14M (no reason to pay him more than MLE when no one else can/will)
Sims let’s say $3M
Rollins let’s say $5M
A min salary guy was baked in above
That’s a total of $41M putting you just under $190M with 14 players so you can then use most of that TPE exception and still be slightly under the apron with 15 players.

They do have that 2nd round pick, so if they got someone they wanted to roster they could skip out on the min salary slot and use the savings to have access to very close to if not all their largest TPE or they could wave Livingston and give his spot to the second round pick which would also save them a few hundred K.

So unless Sportrac is off, they can keep Bobby and use the full MLE, BAE, almost their full largest TPE, and a min salary guy if they let Brook walk.

Keeping Brook at the minimum is also an option as is keeping him via Bird rights at $7M or less but that would then block them from getting creative by using the TPE to absorb someone probably more useful.


Here, I'll make this easy to see. The only thing that could be wrong is some type of incentive that wasn't automatically added to Spotrac contract amounts.

Image

Return to Milwaukee Bucks