Stein: Strong possibility Bucks active due to slow start

[UWM_Brew_Buck]

The funny/sad thing about this news is that if the Bucks do the logical thing of being sellers when you have one of the worst records, this board would be dancing in the street. The Bucks being active on the trade front could be good news but I have zero faith in the FO. I don't see them giving up any young assets but really anything is possible. Our FO has the mentality of getting swept in the first round or die trying. Until they prove otherwise we have to hold our breaths until the trade deadline.

I would love to see an Asik Ersan deal if there is a 3rd team involved. Makes no sense why Philly would be that team but it would be great if they were.

[InsideOut]

As far as you not being a "loser / cheater" then how can you want them to tank this year. Are you saying a team should never tank unless they are bad and then it is okay to tank?

its one thing to fold a hand. its another to stack the deck before the cards come. simple philosophy.

the league would and should take the picks away from a team that openly admited they were trying to throw games and/or lose intentionally. what you personally call for year in and year out was allowed it would destroy the league. it would turn fans off by the millions. half the teams in the league losing on purpose.... actually planning for it.. trying to induce it.

after a good faith effort that fails....then trading for, and playing more youth once a team is eliminated from contention is a completely different philosophy.

Are you saying you think a team would openly admit they were trying to throw games and lose intentionally? You realize no team would ever do that...correct?

What exactly have I been calling for that would destroy the league? Getting rid of and not signing crappy journeymen vets and instead playing youth? In other words, going young and rebuilding would destroy the league?

You say after a good faith effort it is okay to play the youth once the team is eliminated from contention. Yet you just said in your last post that you changed from no tank to tank after 3 games. So in your mind 3 games is a good faith effort?

So if I understand you correctly it would destroy the league if teams tried rebuilding with youth instead of signing journeymen vets. However, if a team gives a good win now effort and if after 3 games it isn't working it is then okay to turn to the tank. Don't you think with the East being so bad that 3 games is too soon to throw in the towel? Also, if you don't want to see a team like Milwaukee tanking how would you like them to get star players. You realize no star FA is signing here or in a bunch of other small markets...correct?

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

the league would and should take the picks away from a team that openly admited they were trying to throw games and/or lose intentionally. what you personally call for year in and year out was allowed it would destroy the league. it would turn fans off by the millions. half the teams in the league losing on purpose.... actually planning for it.. trying to induce it.

after a good faith effort that fails....then trading for, and playing more youth once a team is eliminated from contention is a completely different philosophy.

Completely disagree. A team's goal is to acquire as many good payers as it can. It is not most teams fault that top FA's are only interested in joining a few select organizations and that the rest need to hope to tank or for lottery miracles to acquire a true superstar.

If the NBA does not want teams to openly tank then they should blame their own system. Teams acting in their own long term self interest is smart business

a teams goal is to win. the league as a whole is predicated on that and would become no better than the wwf if that went away. were seeing it this year in the ec. its a joke.

and since when does an unfair system make it ok to cheat that system anyway?
do you cheat your taxes? fake injurys on the job? lie on unemployment?

i realize people do it but that doesnt make it right.

teams should try and win every year. that doesnt mean tobias trades to mortgage your future but it does mean a good faith effort as youre putting your team together. if it becomees apparent that your product is eliminated for playoff contention, then folding your hand to take some cards out of the next deck makes plenty of sense.

this whole tanking thing in the league right now is a joke. im enjoying this season less than any season i can ever remember.

[MrPerfect1]

a teams goal is to win. the league as a whole is predicated on that and would become no better than the wwf if that went away. were seeing it this year in the ec. its a joke.

The goal is to win a Championship, not just games. In the NBA you are only winning a Championship with Superstars. For teams that can't get them in FA, their only option basically is the Draft

and since when does an unfair system make it ok to cheat that system anyway?
do you cheat your taxes? fake injurys on the job? lie on unemployment?

Following the Rules of the system is not any method of cheating. You are under the flawed premise teams have promised to try to win as many games as possible each year

[Baddy Chuck]

this whole tanking thing in the league right now is a joke. im enjoying this season less than any season i can ever remember.

You can thank all the moves you've loved the past 10 seasons for the position we are in now.

[InsideOut]

this whole tanking thing in the league right now is a joke. im enjoying this season less than any season i can ever remember.

You can thank all the moves you've loved the past 10 seasons for the position we are in now.

Kind of ironic...isn't it? The win now moves he loved to much have forced us to do what he hates...going young and rebuilding.

[Wooderson]

One could argue that consistently attempting to win as much as possible in the short-term is worse for the league than full rebuilding since the win-now teams stuck in the middle (Bucks/Raps etc) continually make other teams better. Lack of ability to draft top-end talent, short-term trades benefiting other teams around the league, etc. The integrity of the game is ruined by the likes of Kohl and company more so than a team like the Magic or Sixers imo.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Are you saying you think a team would openly admit they were trying to throw games and lose intentionally? You realize no team would ever do that...correct?

sure of course not. they do it covertly. they know that any outward admission would result in heavy penaltys because it is cheating. but just like cheating your taxes. its only cheating if you get caught... so some teams still do.

What exactly have I been calling for that would destroy the league? Getting rid of and not signing crappy journeymen vets and instead playing youth? In other words, going young and rebuilding would destroy the league?

yes...if the 20 teams without a shot at homecourt advantage in the playoffs followed your plan it would destroy the league. the nba would become a joke. what your threshold for an allout tank has been is unethical plain and simple.

You say after a good faith effort it is okay to play the youth once the team is eliminated from contention. Yet you just said in your last post that you changed from no tank to tank after 3 games. So in your mind 3 games is a good faith effort?

the good faith effort should start at the previous years deadline when you determine if your a buyer or a seller. then comes the draft. lasts thru the free agent signing period, offseason workouts, and then into camp. it CULMINATES when the product hits the court. this year i think i made my determination after 2 games.... 3 might be pushing it. its the worst team ive seen here in my adult life. we may only be a couple games out, but we are clearly the worst team in the conference.

So if I understand you correctly it would destroy the league if teams tried rebuilding with youth instead of signing journeymen vets. However, if a team gives a good win now effort and if after 3 games it isn't working it is then okay to turn to the tank. Don't you think with the East being so bad that 3 games is too soon to throw in the towel? Also, if you don't want to see a team like Milwaukee tanking how would you like them to get star players. You realize no star FA isn't signing here or in a bunch of other small markets...correct?

we cant improve this team THIS YEAR, without mortgaging our future again NEXT YEAR. so yes... we need to reboot now to try to win next year. no smart team trades away their best young players for a one year cycle unless they think a championship could result. we were fools last year for doing that and i was clear about then too.

pretty much your last comments here are a strawman argument. ive been pretty clear about where i draw the line. its where most teams in the league do, and where kohl has drawn it in the past as well. you can argue what ive said but dont put words in my mouth to do it. i wont respond anymore to that.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

One could argue that consistently attempting to win as much as possible in the short-term is worse for the league than full rebuilding since the win-now teams stuck in the middle (Bucks/Raps etc) continually make other teams better. Lack of ability to draft top-end talent, short-term trades benefiting other teams around the league, etc. The integrity of the game is ruined by the likes of Kohl and company more so than a team like the Magic or Sixers imo.

so the solution is what? all the teams in the middle trying to lose too?

if every season was like this youd enjoy it? like this for us? like this in the league? this is what teams do now if they arent top 10?

every young team eventually turns to veterans to fill in the gaps. perhaps maybe weve just made that decision too fast. or gotten desperate because of who is available in milwaukee. i can agree with that anyway.

[MrPerfect1]

sure of course not. they do it covertly. they know that any outward admission would result in heavy penaltys because it is cheating. but just like cheating your taxes. its only cheating if you get caught... so some teams still do.

You still have not provided any basis for why this is "cheating." What rule is a team that loses intentionally breaking?

so the solution is what? all the teams in the middle trying to lose too?

sif every season was like this youd enjoy it? like this for us? like this in the league? this is what teams do now if they arent top 10?

In the NBA yes, being in the Middle is the worst place you can be. Every non Top 10 team should arguably tank

[InsideOut]

Are you saying you think a team would openly admit they were trying to throw games and lose intentionally? You realize no team would ever do that...correct?

sure of course not. they do it covertly. they know that any outward admission would result in heavy penaltys because it is cheating. but just like cheating your taxes. its only cheating if you get caught... so some teams still do.

What exactly have I been calling for that would destroy the league? Getting rid of and not signing crappy journeymen vets and instead playing youth? In other words, going young and rebuilding would destroy the league?

yes...if the 20 teams without a shot at homecourt advantage in the playoffs followed your plan it would destroy the league. the nba would become a joke. what your threshold for an allout tank has been is unethical plain and simple.

You say after a good faith effort it is okay to play the youth once the team is eliminated from contention. Yet you just said in your last post that you changed from no tank to tank after 3 games. So in your mind 3 games is a good faith effort?

the good faith effort should start at the previous years deadline when you determine if your a buyer or a seller. then comes the draft. lasts thru the free agent signing period, offseason workouts, and then into camp. it CULMINATES when the product hits the court. this year i think i made my determination after 2 games.... 3 might be pushing it. its the worst team ive seen here in my adult life. we may only be a couple games out, but we are clearly the worst team in the conference.

So if I understand you correctly it would destroy the league if teams tried rebuilding with youth instead of signing journeymen vets. However, if a team gives a good win now effort and if after 3 games it isn't working it is then okay to turn to the tank. Don't you think with the East being so bad that 3 games is too soon to throw in the towel? Also, if you don't want to see a team like Milwaukee tanking how would you like them to get star players. You realize no star FA isn't signing here or in a bunch of other small markets...correct?

we cant improve this team THIS YEAR, without mortgaging our future again NEXT YEAR. so yes... we need to reboot now to try to win next year. no smart team trades away their best young players for a one year cycle unless they think a championship could result. we were fools last year for doing that and i was clear about then too.

pretty much your last comments here are a strawman argument. ive been pretty clear about where i draw the line. its where most teams in the league do, and where kohl has drawn it in the past as well. you can argue what ive said but dont put words in my mouth to do it. i wont respond anymore to that.

Please tell me what words I put in your mouth? I can tell you the words you put in my mouth.

You said my idea of rebuilding would destroy the league. You are now saying if 20 teams do this every season it would destroy the league. How do you get from me thinking the Bucks should rebuild to you thinking I said 20 teams should rebuild?

Now I understand where you draw the line. 2 games. If after two games where you played .500 ball if it isn't looking good you should rebuild. With two games being your benchmark I'm shocked you haven't been okay with a Bucks rebuild long before this season. I mean 2 games into any season under Hammond have the Bucks been expected to be any good? The answer is no.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

sure of course not. they do it covertly. they know that any outward admission would result in heavy penaltys because it is cheating. but just like cheating your taxes. its only cheating if you get caught... so some teams still do.

You still have not provided any basis for why this is "cheating." What rule is a team that loses intentionally breaking?

so the solution is what? all the teams in the middle trying to lose too?

sif every season was like this youd enjoy it? like this for us? like this in the league? this is what teams do now if they arent top 10?

In the NBA yes, being in the Middle is the worst place you can be. Every non Top 10 team should arguably tank

ok... so throwing games is not cheating and 20 teams a year not trying is what we need to have for competitive balance.

holy sh't

[MrPerfect1]

ok... so throwing games is not cheating and 20 teams a year not trying is what we need to have for competitive balance.

holy sh't

-Cheating means breaking a rule. Which rule in the Rule book would be Broken?

-In the NBA, only really 5 or so teams are legit Title threats in a Given Year. Since it is a Superstar league, every other team's main Goal should be acquiring the next Super Star, not being Playoff Fodder for the Title Contenders

[mlloyd10]

After looking at all of the potential playoff teams that need C, how about this trade:

Bucks get: Humphries/Jones/Bos 2014 1st(lottery Protected)
Celtics get: Asik
Rockets get: Ilyasova/Neal

[Baddy Chuck]

Don't think Houston is adding Jones with Asik unless they get a really damn good player.

[InsideOut]

sure of course not. they do it covertly. they know that any outward admission would result in heavy penaltys because it is cheating. but just like cheating your taxes. its only cheating if you get caught... so some teams still do.

You still have not provided any basis for why this is "cheating." What rule is a team that loses intentionally breaking?

so the solution is what? all the teams in the middle trying to lose too?

sif every season was like this youd enjoy it? like this for us? like this in the league? this is what teams do now if they arent top 10?

In the NBA yes, being in the Middle is the worst place you can be. Every non Top 10 team should arguably tank

ok... so throwing games is not cheating and 20 teams a year not trying is what we need to have for competitive balance.

holy sh't

If you want competitive balance the NBA is the last sport you should watch. If competitive balance is what you need I suggest you dump the NBA and watch the NFL.

Also, who is throwing games? Can you give an example of the Bucks throwing games this season?

Will all this again boil down to the fact you don't care about the Bucks building a contender and you are happy enough as long as they win there usual 37 games and are in the hunt for the 8th seed? You know this is where these little back and forth things always end up.

[blazza18]

Not surprised at all, very worrisome. Such a short sighted franchise.


If we trade for Asik, we're trading for him to help us now. Hammond doesn't just flip contracts willy nilly.

[DanoMac]

Can't even emphasize the anger boiling inside of me after reading this. Kohl and Hammond are such a **** joke. It's incredible

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

]Please tell me what words I put in your mouth? I can tell you the words you put in my mouth.

the last paragraph you just wrote with the nonsense about the 2 games is a good example. nice spin job on what i actually wrote while at the same time completely deflecting any point i made against you.

You said my idea of rebuilding would destroy the league. You are now saying if 20 teams do this every season it would destroy the league. How do you get from me thinking the Bucks should rebuild to you thinking I said 20 teams should rebuild?

my bad are you now saying the 6th seed as a ceiling in any given year wouldnt be a worthy goal? i was under the impression that wasnt good enough for you. you do realize 20 teams each year are going to either be a 6th seed or worse right?

let me know if im putting words in your mouth. or actually not.... dont bother. i know where youve stood with this. just let us all know if youve now changed your position.

Now I understand where you draw the line. 2 games. If after two games where you played .500 ball if it isn't looking good you should rebuild. With two games being your benchmark I'm shocked you haven't been okay with a Bucks rebuild long before this season. I mean 2 games into any season under Hammond have the Bucks been expected to be any good? The answer is no.

[paulpressey25]

After looking at all of the potential playoff teams that need C, how about this trade:

Bucks get: Humphries/Jones/Bos 2014 1st(lottery Protected)
Celtics get: Asik
Rockets get: Ilyasova/Neal

That one looks great to me. But if you have to add more for Houston, then let them have our choice of vets. Udoh would help them.

I think Boston gets off easy. They dump Humphries, get Asik and only give up a protected #1, which presumably would be top 14 protected.