Why isn't John Hammond fired?

PedroGrande · Post #141 » by **PedroGrande** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:54 pm

Facts:

He is one of the worst traders in the league and even if he is "forced" to do those win now trades they are still bad.

He gets good value on is drafts considering the position he picks. I don't count Jennings as a bad pick, yeah lawson and holiday are better, but Jennings had more star potential, if only he had his mind right. It was a risk, that eventually didn't pan out, it isn't like he hadn't the tools to become a top 10 pg. He wanted flynn, and he sucks, but he also got into an hard situation in minn with like 4 pgs and they were trying to play the triangle, when he was a pick and roller guy on college. I'm somewhat courious on what he would do here if he had the long leash jennings had.

I don't like his FA signings... But I will give him a pass on that for 2 reasons: The bucks have a bad reputation to players. They feel better signing for less anywere else and I bet there is some kind of pressure to use the money avaiable to sign "someone".

He is below average on coach signings. Skilles was an slightly above average aquisition, because he had the money to pay a lot for coaching, and drew apparently is... Pretty bad.

So overall he should be at least demoted from his position. I believe he could be a nice assistant Gm if he had an active gm in front of him. Larry Harris and John Hammond, the best GM combo ever lol.

But we all know that the bucks problems are unfortunately more deep that a Bad Coach/GM thing

PedroGrande · Post #142 » by **PedroGrande** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:56 pm

WEFFPIM wrote:One thing I just will never be able to get by is if Hammond is against the win-now mandate and that's just Kohl...then why accept an extension for a job you hate? Why accept an extension to keep working for an owner who handcuffs you from doing what you want to do?

Maybe he's now realized it and is trying to change. But no one can convince me he hasn't been on board with at least some of this.

Like a few Million Reasons. It isn't like he will be getting another so well payed job after he leaves the bucks

msiris · Post #143 » by **msiris** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:05 pm

Nebula1 wrote:Looks like he's accomplishing exactly what we all want this season

And that was done by accident. I do not think he thought that this team was going to be that bad.

LUKE23 · Post #144 » by **LUKE23** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:08 pm

He has been a good drafter. I mean, you really won't be able to find much outside of the draft that he has done right, but with respect to position, he's drafted very well. Personally I think that should be his only role with the organization. Everything else has been a train wreck.

Post #145 » by **ReasonablySober** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:17 pm

LUKE23 wrote:He has been a good drafter. I mean, you really won't be able to find much outside of the draft that he has done right, but with respect to position, he's drafted very well. Personally I think that should be his only role with the organization. Everything else has been a train wreck.

Yup.

Treebeard · Post #146 » by **Treebeard** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:21 pm

LUKE23 wrote:He has been a good drafter. I mean, you really won't be able to find much outside of the draft that he has done right, but with respect to position, he's drafted very well. Personally I think that should be his only role with the organization. Everything else has been a train wreck.

I agree with drafting well. This is a real question though: how much of the draft picks is on Hammond vs Babcock vs ???? Who really does the heavy lifting for the draft?

steger_3434 · Post #147 » by **steger_3434** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:27 pm

Hammond drafted potsie and wanted Flynn. He sucks at that as well. Even blind squirrels find nuts.

Ron Swanson · Post #148 » by **Ron Swanson** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:28 pm

PedroGrande wrote:So overall he should be at least demoted from his position. I believe he could be a nice assistant Gm if he had an active gm in front of him. Larry Harris and John Hammond, the best GM combo ever lol.

Which is exactly what he was in Detroit under Dumars I believe. And he excelled in that position.

I think we can say, from the evidence gathered, that Hammond is at least an above average talent evaluator. The problem is with every other one of his GM skills. I think a Morway/Hammond GM/Assistant GM dynamic would be interesting to see.

SkilesTheLimit · Post #149 » by **SkilesTheLimit** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:31 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:
PedroGrande wrote:So overall he should be at least demoted from his position. I believe he could be a nice assistant Gm if he had an active gm in front of him. Larry Harris and John Hammond, the best GM combo ever lol.

Which is exactly what he was in Detroit under Dumars I believe. And he excelled in that position.

I think we can say, from the evidence gathered, that Hammond is at least an above average talent evaluator. The problem is with every other one of his GM skills. I think a Morway/Hammond GM/Assistant GM dynamic would be interesting to see.

Morway definitely knows what he is doing. I think the writing is on the wall for him to be our next GM. When that will be is anyone's guess.

Newz · Post #150 » by **Newz** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:32 pm

LUKE23 wrote:He has been a good drafter. I mean, you really won't be able to find much outside of the draft that he has done right, but with respect to position, he's drafted very well. Personally I think that should be his only role with the organization. Everything else has been a train wreck.

This.

Nebula1 · Post #151 » by **Nebula1** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:48 pm

msiris wrote:
Nebula1 wrote:Looks like he's accomplishing exactly what we all want this season
And that was done by accident. I do not think he thought that this team was going to be that bad.

Maybe.. but I don't believe this is/was by accident. There is no way this team was winning anything as constructed and I think the rest is just political posturing.

Only the Tobias trade truly bothers me but otherwise he's gathered a bunch of second round picks and drafted a group of 10-15 range guys (including star Giannis) and set a course for a top pick in the 2014 loaded draft. This is what we all want.

We'll see what he flips this to as December 15 nears and the deadline looms.

randy84 · Post #152 » by **randy84** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:55 pm

SkilesTheLimit wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:
PedroGrande wrote:So overall he should be at least demoted from his position. I believe he could be a nice assistant Gm if he had an active gm in front of him. Larry Harris and John Hammond, the best GM combo ever lol.

Which is exactly what he was in Detroit under Dumars I believe. And he excelled in that position.

I think we can say, from the evidence gathered, that Hammond is at least an above average talent evaluator. The problem is with every other one of his GM skills. I think a Morway/Hammond GM/Assistant GM dynamic would be interesting to see.

Morway definitely knows what he is doing. I think the writing is on the wall for him to be our next GM. When that will be is anyone's guess.

Unless you ask Bird.

http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/2012/06/larry-bird-to-fire-david-morway-replace-him-with-kevin-pritchard/

SkilesTheLimit · Post #153 » by **SkilesTheLimit** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:05 pm

randy84 wrote:
SkilesTheLimit wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:
Which is exactly what he was in Detroit under Dumars I believe. And he excelled in that position.

I think we can say, from the evidence gathered, that Hammond is at least an above average talent evaluator. The problem is with every other one of his GM skills. I think a Morway/Hammond GM/Assistant GM dynamic would be interesting to see.

Morway definitely knows what he is doing. I think the writing is on the wall for him to be our next GM. When that will be is anyone's guess.

Unless you ask Bird.

http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/2012/06/larry-bird-to-fire-david-morway-replace-him-with-kevin-pritchard/

The Bucks signing Mayo was a big...

...from Morway to Bird.

theFireBlanket · Post #154 » by **theFireBlanket** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:08 pm

SkilesTheLimit wrote:The Bucks signing Mayo was a big...

...from Morway to Bird.

How's that turning out? :lol:

LUKE23 · Post #155 » by **LUKE23** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:09 pm

steger_3434 wrote:Hammond drafted potsie and wanted Flynn. He sucks at that as well. Even blind squirrels find nuts.

Umm, so did Hammond find five then? I mean, we can quibble on Jennings/Holiday/Lawson, but Harris, Henson, Sanders, Giannis? Wolters, Leuer, Meeks, Moute? Look, I'm one of the biggest Hammond detractors around, but his draft record is very good. It would be very hard to put together a strong case against that.

I'm not saying I'd be up in arms if he was canned. But the draft is by far the most important element for the Bucks to turn into a contender, both in terms of building their own core, and amassing trade assets to make veteran moves if/when they do get to the point where that makes sense.

I just think people need to separate the overall W/L results and the drafting. The problem is what we've done to surround the draft picks, and trading youth like Harris in veteran moves. But the actual picks themselves, if you're going to rag on him for that, then I think you need to look around the NBA and compare it a little bit closer.

SkilesTheLimit · Post #156 » by **SkilesTheLimit** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:12 pm

theFireBlanket wrote:
SkilesTheLimit wrote:The Bucks signing Mayo was a big...

...from Morway to Bird.
How's that turning out?

Turrible.

LUKE23 · Post #157 » by **LUKE23** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:17 pm

The drafted core under Hammond is:

Jennings/Wolters
/Meeks/Lamb
Giannis/Harris/Moute
Henson/Leuer
Sanders

The only non-contributors are Alexander, Gallon, Hobson. With no picks earlier than #8 I just have a really, really hard time complaining about that draft record.

InsideOut · Post #158 » by **InsideOut** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:24 pm

The Bucks have one winning season out of 5 (soon to be 6) under Hammond. The reason he wasn't fire and instead given an extension was because we play in the east and because of Skiles which kept the Bucks in the hunt for the 8th seed. That is Kohl's standard and Hammond met it. If you can stay in the hunt for that 8th seed and get it every couple years then you are meeting Kohl's expectations. The problem is 99.99% of the fans think that 1 winning season in 10 (soon to be 11) and a goal of being in the hunt for the 8th seed is an absolute joke. That is the reason attendance is at record lows. People won't show up to watch that junk year after year.

When the Bucks suck this year and most of next year that is when Hammond will be fired because for two years in a row he didn't meet Kohl's 8th seed expectations.

The Bucks are a restaurant that has a history of serving below average food. After a while most locals just stop eating there and the restaurant is left surviving on people that are fine with bad food as long as it is cheap. Some people will eat crap pizza all day as long if it is all you can eat for $4.99.

Ron Swanson · Post #159 » by **Ron Swanson** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:30 pm

LUKE23 wrote:The drafted core under Hammond is:

Jennings/Wolters
/Meeks/Lamb
Giannis/Harris/Moute
Henson/Leuer
Sanders

The only non-contributors are Alexander, Gallon, Hobson. With no picks earlier than #8 I just have a really, really hard time complaining about that draft record.

I have to agree with this. The guy is an awful GM, but I don't see how anyone can criticize his draft record.

Matches Malone · Post #160 » by **Matches Malone** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:51 pm

We have a terrible owner and a terrible GM. It's that simple, guys.

John Hammond may have a pretty good draft record for where he is drafting, but he makes terrible trades. Even with a win now mandate put in place by ownership, a competent GM would be able to put together a more reliable team to get that done. John Hammond has made inexcusable free agent signings, awful trades and he isn't aggressive enough as a GM to seek out his own trades or to move up in the draft or acquire young players or picks. Let's not even go into his eye for talent when it comes to "Veteran" help. Gooden, Maggette, Jefferson, Jackson etc.. A good GM would know those players don't move the needle and are washed up by the time they get to Milwaukee.

Herb Kohl has been awful as an owner. His ridiculous win now ownership has dug this team into a hole. He cannot continue to meddle in GM affairs the way he has been. I applaud his efforts at trying to keep the team in Milwaukee, but with the product we have been putting out on the floor, most of the general Bucks "fans" just don't care about the team anymore and would care less if it moved. To me, Kohl is battling himself. I can understand if he thinks winning at all costs will help keep the team here, but he is going about it the wrong way. Bottoming out is not the be all end all. He should just focus on getting a new arena built and let a knowledgeable GM run the team the way he see's fit, which we all know should be rebuilding through the draft.