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Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:11 am
by paulpressey25
emunney wrote:
It's so hard to understand how Thon ran Valanciunas off the court less than a year ago.
I brought up Manute Bol again the other day. Mentioned some teams in the league, including the Bucks when coached by Don Nelson, had huge problems with him his first go around. Your comment prompted me to hit BReference just now:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bolma01.htmlHis career played out as I had recalled. As a rookie, Bol blocked 5.0 shots per game. Teams however quickly figured out how to work around him. After three seasons with the Bullets, he's dealt for a second round pick to Golden State. Think about that, a guy who blocks FIVE shots a game as a rookie then can't get more playing time and he's dumped for a second rounder.
At GSW, then new coach Don Nelson decided he could salvage Bol's career by sending him out to the three point line to space the floor. After two seasons Nellie realizes Bol can't hit three's at a high enough clip to justify getting killed elsewhere on the floor so his career then starts to wind down.
Bol played his most minutes in a season as a rookie. He never played that many ever again.
Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:15 pm
by Baddy Chuck
Bol was also what, 87? when he was a rookie?
Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:27 pm
by steger_3434
Baddy Chuck wrote:Bol was also what, 87? when he was a rookie?
So around thins age
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Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:37 pm
by Gianstoppable
The real dilemma is; do you play Thon 20+ mins a game and hope he improves or start Zeller and give Thon 10 minutes a game so you have the best chance to win games.
Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:36 pm
by steger_3434
Gianstoppable wrote:The real dilemma is; do you play Thon 20+ mins a game and hope he improves or start Zeller and give Thon 10 minutes a game so you have the best chance to win games.
That’s not a dilemma at all. He’s had 3/4 of a season to improve. He’s not going to improve the final 20 games if he hasn’t the first 60. Sit his ass on the bench.
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Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:30 pm
by Bernman
3Diamantidis wrote:At least the bucks are trying. If he doesn't figure it out nobody can say that the organization didn't try.
Fotis on Fourth Street certainly can, and will.
Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:40 pm
by thomchatt3rton
Gianstoppable wrote:The real dilemma is; do you play Thon 20+ mins a game and hope he improves or start Zeller and give Thon 10 minutes a game so you have the best chance to win games.
I think you try to give him 10 minutes and try to keep it situational- favorable matchups for him, situations where he isn't a massive liability (maybe don't let him see Jokic at all for example) and you keep that hook handy to pull him if need be.
If the staff has decided that the G-league is not the route for developing Maker, so be it. But we can't sacrifice winning this season for Thon's development. 3rd big on the roster is the proper place for a super-raw 2nd year guy like him anyway.
Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:22 pm
by arizonabuck
I didn't think Thon was capable of this move, baseline drive vs. Hawks. this move right here makes me think he really does have potential. I wish they would develop him in the G league. Giannis was allowed to work on his game, turn the ball over, fall down and make all sorts of crazy mistakes to help him develop. Thon hasn't been given that leash. they're trying to win games. put him in the G league and let him work on moves, driving the ball, etc. he can't get any better when he's not allowed to do it. put him in the G league and put the ball in his hands.
Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:40 pm
by pankos
to be honest as long as i watch this player i cant find something intresting on him besides he is tall and some shooting? skills. No nba, no europe for sure,no g,, maybe Shougang Beijing Ducks is a good start for him to make his living, also he will start to feel comfort with his role on a team and develop further his ''talent''. Maybe im wrong,
but he looks like empty battery. i wish he change to something different,but when if not now? Last year i would vote as spot starter-average,now i vote bench warmer or out of league
Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:55 pm
by leroyjw10
steger_3434 wrote:Gianstoppable wrote:The real dilemma is; do you play Thon 20+ mins a game and hope he improves or start Zeller and give Thon 10 minutes a game so you have the best chance to win games.
That’s not a dilemma at all. He’s had 3/4 of a season to improve. He’s not going to improve the final 20 games if he hasn’t the first 60. Sit his ass on the bench.
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Yeah, this is a no brainer. Not only should Zeller take all of Thon’s minutes, but he should cut into Henson’s, too. I’d split it evenly at 24 a game each.
Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:06 pm
by jakecronus8
In most professional sports, you look for a significant jump from year one to year two. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule and sometimes guys take a little longer to blossom when they are raw. Don't know if there's much precedent for someone significantly regressing to one of the worst players in the league and coming back to be a good to great player.
If Thon is gonna improve it can't be at the expense of the team at this point. Hard pill to swallow but send him to the Gleague and force feed him. If he can't handle it there he'll never be a player in the league. The only reason I can see for being against this is worrying about his value declining but at this point, the only thing he does for you in a trade is match salary.
Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:40 am
by Brewhoopfan
Thon hit some shots tonight - good for him. Still, he had ZERO defensive rebounds. One play in particular sums up Thon. A Bucks player(Brown?) dropped it off to him on the block with a Raptors player closing hard. All Thon has to do is gather and power up to the hoop. The worst result is 2 free throws. Nope. Thon can't get his legs under him and gets bumped off the block throwing up a wild turnaround no chance prayer. The Raptors player involved? 6' 195lbs Fred Van Vleet. C'mon man.
Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:55 am
by BroncoBuck
Brewhoopfan wrote:Thon hit some shots tonight - good for him. Still, he had ZERO defensive rebounds. One play in particular sums up Thon. A Bucks player(Brown?) dropped it off to him on the block with a Raptors player closing hard. All Thon has to do is gather and power up to the hoop. The worst result is 2 free throws. Nope. Thon can't get his legs under him and gets bumped off the block throwing up a wild turnaround no chance prayer. The Raptors player involved? 6' 195lbs Fred Van Vleet. C'mon man.
Him not dunking on that opportunity he had was inexcusable, the rebounds weren’t as bad as they appear on paper. It never really seemed like his guy was out rebounding him egregiously, the ball was just not going to them. I think it was the last MKE TOR matchup where Jonas just dominated him and ended up with like 20 boards and scored at will. Definitely improvement there and good shot selection tonight (other than that play, which I thought was an offensive rebound but maybe it wasn’t)
Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 2, 2018 5:30 pm
by ReasonablySober
HEY COOL LOWE IS WRITING ABOUT THE BU
Thon Maker has grabbed only 14.8 percent of opponent misses, putting him on pace for one of the worst defensive rebounding seasons ever for a 7-footer.
When Maker is the closest player to the ball as it bonks off the rim, he grabs the rebound only 50 percent of the time -- third-lowest among 299 players who have recorded at least 500 rebounding chances, according to Second Spectrum tracking data via NBA Advanced Stats. The two guys below him: Ekpe Udoh and Robin Lopez.
Those names are instructive. Udoh and especially Lopez are famous box-out artists. They eliminate one and sometimes two opposing players, freeing teammates to fly in unmolested for rebounds. They do the grunt work without getting the glory.
Their teams rebound better when they are on the floor. That is, umm, not the case for Maker. The Bucks secure 78 percent of opponent misses when Maker is on the bench, but only 73.8 percent when he plays, per NBA.com. That is the difference between a top-10 defensive rebounding team and one that is even worse than the worst one in the league (Atlanta).
Maker's biggest physical advantage -- speed -- doesn't mean much when he has inside position, as centers typically do on defense; there is no one to scoot around. But he's so skinny, with such unrefined rebounding instincts, that players of all sizes and speeds can scoot around him. Behemoths shove him out of the way.
On bad John Henson nights, the Bucks don't get enough from their centers; they are space-clogging hindrances on offense who don't frighten anyone on the other end. Maker is the only one with 3-point range, even if that range is mostly theoretical. He draws token attention when he stands in the corner, and that opens space inside for Giannis Antetokounmpo's rampaging struts to the rim.
In playoff moments when spacing gets tight and rebounding is brutish, the Bucks will have to think hard about sliding Antetokounmpo or Jabari Parker to center.
Dang.
Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 2, 2018 5:51 pm
by lvckv
Definitely want to see more of Giannis at center.
And Thon at PF rather than center for obvious reasons.
Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 2, 2018 6:46 pm
by jakecronus8
Would Thon make a roster on one of those 3 on 3 league teams?
Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 2, 2018 7:21 pm
by paulpressey25
The vast majority of the league knows of Thon because they know exactly how to exploit the Bucks when he's in the game.
That said, had to feel that Vivek didn't know about this until Lowe put it in writing. Kings were my last hope to fleece this summer.
"Hey, this Willie Cauley Stein guy hasn't worked out like you hoped, and we know you loved KG back in the day.....maybe....."
Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 2, 2018 7:31 pm
by randy84
lvckv wrote:Definitely want to see more of Giannis at center.
And Thon at PF rather than center for obvious reasons.
I am really beginning to come around on the idea that in order for the Bucks to put a championship team around Giannis, he needs to play center.
Thon and Henson are just too skinny to man the post. Giannis is the biggest guy on the team and doesn't have much of an outside shot. I think center is his position.
Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 2, 2018 7:35 pm
by paulpressey25
randy84 wrote:lvckv wrote:Definitely want to see more of Giannis at center.
And Thon at PF rather than center for obvious reasons.
I am really beginning to come around on the idea that in order for the Bucks to put a championship team around Giannis, he needs to play center.
Thon and Henson are just too skinny to man the post. Giannis is the biggest guy on the team and doesn't have much of an outside shot. I think center is his position.
That all sounds logical to me. That said, Frank on the podcast the other day was talking about how Giannis statistically performs his best when paired with a real center and a real PG.
Re: The New 2018 Thon Maker Poll!!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 2, 2018 7:38 pm
by randy84
paulpressey25 wrote:randy84 wrote:lvckv wrote:Definitely want to see more of Giannis at center.
And Thon at PF rather than center for obvious reasons.
I am really beginning to come around on the idea that in order for the Bucks to put a championship team around Giannis, he needs to play center.
Thon and Henson are just too skinny to man the post. Giannis is the biggest guy on the team and doesn't have much of an outside shot. I think center is his position.
That all sounds logical to me. That said, Frank on the podcast the other day was talking about how Giannis statistically performs his best when paired with a real center and a real PG.
I would love to see that data since I can't remember the last time the Bucks had a real center and a real PG at the same time.