Bucks News, Trades, Transactions - CP3/Gallo trade idea pg.81

[paulpressey25]

We are going to miss the hell out of Brogdon, especially if we have any injuries at guard, He’s a perfect fit for the Pacers, they are going to be a fun team to watch,

We’d miss the heck out of any starter we lost off last years team, especially if their counterpart gets injured this year.

The question was, do you diversify your talent base with Hill, Matthews, RoLo, maybe Ersan and a first and two seconds, or retain Brogdon?

It was a strange confluence of events, but keeping Brogdon literally meant losing all of the above, or most of it.

[MVP2110]

Yep, if they resign Brogdon you are then replacing Hill, Wes, Rolo, Ersan(probably), a 1st and 2nds with 3 minimum level players(JR Smith, Bender types)

[DrWood]

DDV's a really important wildcard. And his 3-point shot is central to that. He was bad last year, and his college record, both 3 and free, doesn't indicate that he was ever a consistently deadly pure shooter there either. *If* he emerged as a mostly reliable, deadly outside shot, he'd be a really good piece for us. That's a huge *if* and not super likely, but maybe the kind of*if* that works out favorably for teams that end up winning championships?

I'd view him as someone who might contribute in an increasingly more important role as the season goes on, but there is so much depth at the wings, we don't have to rely on him for much.

[Badgerlander]

We are going to miss the hell out of Brogdon, especially if we have any injuries at guard, He’s a perfect fit for the Pacers, they are going to be a fun team to watch,

We’d miss the heck out of any starter we lost off last years team, especially if their counterpart gets injured this year.

The question was, do you diversify your talent base with Hill, Matthews, RoLo, maybe Ersan and a first and two seconds, or retain Brogdon?

It was a strange confluence of events, but keeping Brogdon literally meant losing all of the above, or most of it.

My point is that we are thin at PG and Hill has been injury prone. We had a gaping hole at guard last year that wasn’t filled until we acquired Hill. Without Brogdon we are basically banking on Donte to step up as ball handler depth. Wes is a pretty good band aid move and maybe he doesn’t come here if Brogdon is retained. I think we still move Ersan before the deadline to ease Luc tax next year. RoLo is nice to have especially because we can load manage his brother and depth is great but it’s pretty rare that superior depth beats superior starting talent come playoff time. Basically we are putting more on the shoulders of Giannis and Mids and hopefully they are ready for it. I’m fine with not resigning Brogdon I’m just not confident in Donte or Sterling in replacing him and ultimately a trade exception would’ve helped to ease that worry in the hope that we might pull off another trade like Hill if those two fall flat.

[Badgerlander]

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[GrandAdmiralDan]

So far, I have yet to see anyone properly frame the decision made regarding Brogdon and how it relates to the Bucks ability to maximize our championship window around Giannis.

People speak about the luxury tax as if it is just something that owners choose to pay or not pay, and its solely a matter of total dollars owners are willing to pay. Wrong. The CBA tries to maintain competitive balance by severely punishing teams that just try to spend as much as possible, not only through heavy and escalating financial penalties, but also through restrictions on being able to add talent to your roster.

There is always going to be a much larger pool of players willing to sign as a FA with a contender for the non-taxpayer MLE as opposed to the much smaller tax-payer MLE. If you are above the lux tax apron, you also can't use the Biannual Exception. And you are completely prohibited from receiving any players in a sign and trade.

All of those tools and flexibility, along with the draft picks we received must be weighed against retaining Brogdon.

I still hate that we didn't take a couple small reasonable steps to create the TPE we could have created, but I think we're going to want/need the flexibility we maintained by not keeping Brogdon . I think that gives us better odds of winning a championship.

Now, if we never utilize that flexibility at any point and our ownership group just pockets the financial savings, that is something I will pillory them for that, as I have done for other errors in judgment in the past.

[chonestown]

We are going to miss the hell out of Brogdon, especially if we have any injuries at guard, He’s a perfect fit for the Pacers, they are going to be a fun team to watch,

Scanning the cobwebs of my smooth brain to remember the last time Brogdon missed significant time and how that impacted the team.

[Bernman]

We are going to miss the hell out of Brogdon, especially if we have any injuries at guard, He’s a perfect fit for the Pacers, they are going to be a fun team to watch,

We’d miss the heck out of any starter we lost off last years team, especially if their counterpart gets injured this year.

The question was, do you diversify your talent base with Hill, Matthews, RoLo, maybe Ersan and a first and two seconds, or retain Brogdon?

It was a strange confluence of events, but keeping Brogdon literally meant losing all of the above, or most of it.

It is a false dilemma/dichotomy to some degree. They own Ersan's rights. And they would have had the exception to procure RoLo I believe.

Also, if Brogdon were re-signed, there wouldn't have been an impetus to sign Matthews. Hill would be a luxury with DiVo and Brogdon returning. Someone who is likely to decline very soon, unlike Brogdon.

That, his shooting, decision-making, clutch play, and ability to be an offensive engine often, while defensively being solid as well, is why even if it were Brogdon vs. the rest of that group; I'd choose Malc w/out needing to give it much of a second thought.

The Warriors didn't just concede a long-term core player at any point in their dynasty for depth or luxury tax interests. They'd pay the latter and think they could figure out the former from being a FA lure, lower picks, etc.

The % of the base who thought we should re-sign Malcolm beforehand should be about the same afterward. At the time I don't think that decision was well-received. Only one in the core I was interested in seeing depart was Bled for playoff unreliability. That's not going to change because we ended up letting Brogdon go. Now we have to try and hope for the best. But hope doesn't improve probability.

I really think it was just a combo of not wanting to pay the luxury tax and overreaction to the regular season and playoffs where losing/gaining Brogdon didn't result in a big drop-off. But that was with Hill maybe making his last stand, Mirotic contributing in certain match-ups, and then just about everybody but Malc going in the tank against Toronto.

"Hope"fully they can absorb the loss enough through Hill defying Father Time and DiVo stepping up. But they could have had the latter as a 6th man and Brogdon starting, making them even stronger.

[MVP2110]

We are going to miss the hell out of Brogdon, especially if we have any injuries at guard, He’s a perfect fit for the Pacers, they are going to be a fun team to watch,

We’d miss the heck out of any starter we lost off last years team, especially if their counterpart gets injured this year.

The question was, do you diversify your talent base with Hill, Matthews, RoLo, maybe Ersan and a first and two seconds, or retain Brogdon?

It was a strange confluence of events, but keeping Brogdon literally meant losing all of the above, or most of it.

It is a false dilemma/dichotomy to some degree. They own Ersan's rights. And they would have had the exception to procure RoLo I believe.

Also, if Brogdon were re-signed, there wouldn't have been an impetus to sign Matthews. Hill would be a luxury with DiVo and Brogdon returning. Someone who is likely to decline very soon, unlike Brogdon.

That, his shooting, decision-making, clutch play, and ability to be an offensive engine often, while defensively being solid as well, is why even if it were Brogdon vs. the rest of that group; I'd choose Malc w/out needing to give it much of a second thought.

The Warriors didn't just concede a long-term core player at any point in their dynasty for depth or luxury tax interests. They'd pay the latter and think they could figure out the former from being a FA lure, lower picks, etc.

The % of the base who thought we should re-sign Malcolm beforehand should be about the same afterward. At the time I don't think that decision was well-received. Only one in the core I was interested in seeing depart was Bled for playoff unreliability. That's not going to change because we ended up letting Brogdon go. Now we have to try and hope for the best. But hope doesn't improve probability.

I really think it was just a combo of not wanting to pay the luxury tax and overreaction to the regular season and playoffs where losing/gaining Brogdon didn't result in a big drop-off. But that was with Hill maybe making his last stand, Mirotic contributing in certain match-ups, and then just about everybody but Malc going in the tank against Toronto.

"Hope"fully they can absorb the loss enough through Hill defying Father Time and DiVo stepping up. But they could have had the latter as a 6th man and Brogdon starting, making them even stronger.

So hypothetically if they resign Brogdon to the 4/85 deal what do you think our roster looks like? Along with future assets/flexibility?

[Matches Malone]

I love Brogdon as a player and person. He's going to do great in Indiana as more of a focal point, but he's not going to take a team and suddenly put them in title contention. Giannis still stirs the drink and I think they ended up getting enough good complimentary pieces once Brogdon left, to hopefully not see a massive drop off.

[Bernman]

So hypothetically if they resign Brogdon to the 4/85 deal what do you think our roster looks like? Along with future assets/flexibility?

Bigs - BroLo, RoLo, Giannis, Ersan, Wilson, Bender

Wings - Middleton, vet on short-term deal in trade for Bled i.e. Ariza-type, Brown, Korver

Guards - Brogdon, DiVo, Connaughton, Mason

I'd offer a short-term exception deal for Hill. Take it or leave it. Probably leaves it, but wouldn't be a disaster. You could do same thing w/ Matthews on vet's minimum.

Could have waited until during the season to trade Bled. Don't think they were allowed until September, after which most offseason trades are completed. Win some extra games in the regular season, and then flip him before the playoffs where he tanks you probably, for someone who is less impactful at his best but would probably bring his in the offseason. Maybe by that point you've learned DiVo could be a starter for us. Also, luxury tax penalty doesn't kick in until after the season I believe.

2nd rd picks, late 1st rd pick when available, exceptions, vet's minimums to fortify the team. As far as the core would be concerned, Giannis, Middleton, and Brogdon should be there a while. Then maybe you back door another core player long-term w/ DiVo or even Bender if he finally realizes potential.

[MVP2110]

So hypothetically if they resign Brogdon to the 4/85 deal what do you think our roster looks like? Along with future assets/flexibility?

Bigs - BroLo, RoLo, Giannis, Ersan, Wilson, Bender

Wings - Middleton, vet on short-term deal in trade for Bled i.e. Ariza-type, Brown, Korver

Guards - Brogdon, DiVo, Connaughton, Mason

I'd offer a short-term exception deal for Hill. Take it or leave it. Probably leaves it, but wouldn't be a disaster. You could do same thing w/ Matthews on vet's minimum.

Could have waited until during the season to trade Bled. Don't think they were allowed until September, after which most offseason trades are completed. Win some extra games in the regular season, and then flip him before the playoffs where he tanks you probably, for someone who is less impactful at his best but would probably bring his in the offseason. Maybe by that point you've learned DiVo could be a starter for us. Also, luxury tax penalty doesn't kick in until after the season I believe.

2nd rd picks, late 1st rd pick when available, exceptions, vet's minimums to fortify the team. As far as the core would be concerned, Giannis, Middleton, and Brogdon should be there a while. Then maybe you back door another core player long-term w/ DiVo or even Bender if he finally realizes potential.

Your going to have to walk me through how they are able to still have Rolo & Ersan? I think they lose the exception if the sign Brogdon don't they? So they are down Rolo Wes Hill a 1st & 2 2nds correct?

[TroyD92]

I'm amazed that so many are incredibly confident one way or the other on Brogdon. I honestly am still torn on what the right call was however many months later.

So many are incredibly confident because the unintended consequence of everyone being right on Jason Kidd two years before he was fired was a poisonous social media culture that rewarded groupthink and excommunicated dissension.

David Dunn has officially gone full heel.

[tedbrogen]

Bledsoe was a better all around player than Brogdon during the regular season last year. Hill was easily the Bucks second best player in the playoffs last season. If the decision was Brogdon or both of Bledsoe and Hill, I take the latter easily. Sure, Bledsoe and Hill both have issues, Bledsoe's playoff disappearing acts and Hill's age, but so does Brogdon as he has missed significant time with injuries the past two seasons and even the season before when he played 76 games he missed the last week and was clearly not healthy in the first round loss to the Raptors that year. Essentially, Brogdon has never had a fully healthy season his entire career and has never played more than 30 mpg. Going into the luxury tax for that type of player does not seem super advisable.

[Pachinko_]

There might be sth wrong with Brogdon's foot or something, I know he missed a whole year in college because of it, and then there's this weird thing with his shoe kept coming off in games, remember that? Also although he always looked incredibly fit and strong he could never quite get the lift or move as fast as you'd expect from someone with his body type. Maybe he's carrying some weird orthopedic malfunction, I don't know LOL

Still one of my favourite Bucks of all time, wish we had kept him.

[jute2003]

I thought Brogdon was surprisingly quick and explosive for how built he was. He is a pretty powerful dude.

[TroyD92]

I thought Brogdon was surprisingly quick and explosive for how built he was. He is a pretty powerful dude.

I wouldn’t say he’s necessarily quick but very decisive. Though I agree about the explosive part. He’s a surprising vertical athlete

[JayMKE]

Brogdon has tremendous length and shields the ball perfectly when going towards the basket, he doesn't have to go over guys. He's such a smart player, I'm going to miss him.

[M-C-G]

We are going to miss the hell out of Brogdon, especially if we have any injuries at guard, He’s a perfect fit for the Pacers, they are going to be a fun team to watch,

We’d miss the heck out of any starter we lost off last years team, especially if their counterpart gets injured this year.

The question was, do you diversify your talent base with Hill, Matthews, RoLo, maybe Ersan and a first and two seconds, or retain Brogdon?

It was a strange confluence of events, but keeping Brogdon literally meant losing all of the above, or most of it.

My point is that we are thin at PG and Hill has been injury prone. We had a gaping hole at guard last year that wasn’t filled until we acquired Hill. Without Brogdon we are basically banking on Donte to step up as ball handler depth. Wes is a pretty good band aid move and maybe he doesn’t come here if Brogdon is retained. I think we still move Ersan before the deadline to ease Luc tax next year. RoLo is nice to have especially because we can load manage his brother and depth is great but it’s pretty rare that superior depth beats superior starting talent come playoff time. Basically we are putting more on the shoulders of Giannis and Mids and hopefully they are ready for it. I’m fine with not resigning Brogdon I’m just not confident in Donte or Sterling in replacing him and ultimately a trade exception would’ve helped to ease that worry in the hope that we might pull off another trade like Hill if those two fall flat.

I'm one of Brogdons biggest fans, but we still had a 50 win pace without him this year in the regular season, and a 57 win pace if you include the playoffs.

He is an excellent fit in our scheme and I've been on record of saying I would have kept him and trading Middleton based on those contracts, but this roster is better this year than last year. It isn't perfect, but tons of pieces to adapt to whatever is thrown at us OTHER than Giannis going down for extended period of time.

[fansinceforever]

It's completely plausible that not retaining Brogdon and getting compensation for him will prove to be the right move. I just keep going back to how difficult it was for this team to create action on offense as soon as jumpers stopped falling. Ultimately, Giannis needs to be better in those moments but Brogdon was the one guy who kept making the damn open shots when the opportunities were there.