Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Bobby back on a 4/$49 deal, Ingles 1 year deal

[TroyD92]

They gotta give up Barnes don't they? It's either him, Fox, or Sabonis and the latter two aren't happening.

Not getting any win now player without his salary. So no idea what they are planning if they don't want to trade him

They can comfortably match for win now players in the 20-30m range without trading Barnes. Not that there are many worthy of the 4th pick (that's why there are no concrete rumors), but in theory that's what they're looking for. Basically another Sabonis (in terms of salary).

They should trade for Miles Turner

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or FVV

[rilamann]

Now that the season is done and over and everything is in hindsight. The thing that probably annoys me the most about the Celtics series (besides Bud not playing Carter) looking back on it, and it annoyed me a lot at the time, but annoys me more now. Is that we made Grant Williams look like a way better player than he actually is the entire series.

I remember during the series saying the he is not really a threat offensively unless you continuously leave him wide open, which we did. Especially in game 7, obviously.

And I also said that Grant Williams' only real chance to slow Giannis down would be to hold his ground/position in the paint and then hope that Giannis just continuously keeps trying to barrel into him. Felt like every time Giannis had Grant Williams on him, he just tried to barrel into him. Grant Williams is an aggressive and undersized defender, especially against Giannis, Giannis should have squared him up in the post and hit him with some pump fakes and got him off balance and used his length and athleticism, Giannis would have cooked him. I was saying this after game 2 of our series, Giannis just kept trying to barrel into him all series it seemed.

Bam actually cooked Grant Williams in game 3 of their series doing just that. Bam was hitting him with pump fakes in the paint and Grant Williams was biting on every one of them. Strangely, Bam didn't really try to do it again after game 3.

That's my little end of season rant...lol.

[BigO]

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So probs not keeping the pick again. Not a fan if that's the case.

After hearing Horst, it's pretty clear that:

1) There will be no trades involving Jrue, Middleton or Lopez. So all of you who come up with these trade scenarios are wasting the effort. Might want to think about scenarios that are actually possible.

2) Horst will never get rid of Bud, no matter what happens. He loves the guy.

3) Horst's priority is getting more shooters. He thinks the defense is fine and blames the middling performance on defense this year entirely on missing Lopez. It amazes me that the two reporters discuss rim protection with Horst, but not one mention of the consistently abysmal three point defense and the need to change something there.

4) Pretty likely the pick will be packaged. He actually feels good about how he has used his first round draft picks-named Tucker, Mirotic, Allen and others as good use of the picks. If he loved Tucker so much (and I do), why then let him go? Why brag about Mirotic
and Allen?

5) He clearly thinks that running it back with the same players will do the trick(and maybe he's right).

6) Sounds like Matthews and Carter will be back.

[BigO]

Now that the season is done and over and everything is in hindsight. The thing that probably annoys me the most about the Celtics series (besides Bud not playing Carter) looking back on it, and it annoyed me a lot at the time, but annoys me more now. Is that we made Grant Williams look like a way better player than he actually is the entire series.

I remember during the series saying the he is not really a threat offensively unless you continuously leave him wide open, which we did. Especially in game 7, obviously.

And I also said that Grant Williams' only real chance to slow Giannis down would be to hold his ground/position in the paint and then hope that Giannis just continuously keeps trying to barrel into him. Felt like every time Giannis had Grant Williams on him, he just tried to barrel into him. Grant Williams is an aggressive and undersized defender, especially against Giannis, Giannis should have squared him up in the post and hit him with some pump fakes and got him off balance and used his length and athleticism, Giannis would have cooked him. I was saying this after game 2 of our series, Giannis just kept trying to barrel into him all series it seemed.

Bam actually cooked Grant Williams in game 3 of their series doing just that. Bam was hitting him with pump fakes in the paint and Grant Williams was biting on every one of them. Strangely, Bam didn't really try to do it again after game 3.

That's my little end of season rant...lol.

Not sure why you limited your rant to Williams. Horford was also left wide open and burned the Bucks. I love these articles about how Horford was rejuvenated. Well if you leave a guy wide open to shoot flat footed set shots, he will make them until he's 50.

[raferfenix]

How much of an upgrade would Monte Morris + Jeff Green for Allen + Hill be?

Imagine we'd have to include #24 or other draft assets is the rub.

[paulpressey25]

Has there ever been a report about Sac wanting Middleton? Ive seen it mentioned here forever but was curious if it's just this board or from an actual rumor.

Sac is Sac and does weird **** so not saying they wouldn't want him. Just curious.

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No rumor, just Sac looking for a win now player and we have one. But Sac wouldn't be trading Barnes with #4 in any Middleton deal (and they kinda need to because of salary matching) so it's a moot point.

I was told they wouldn’t part with Halliburton. Heck, Hinkie got multiple firsts out of them in order to take back salary so they could sign Rondo. Middleton would be a win-now dream for Vivek. He’d do it.

[raferfenix]

Is Bogdan enough of an upgrade to Allen that it'd be worth jettisoning #24 + pushing ownership to pay the extra luxury tax (also from his trade kicker)?

If the guy could just stay healthy, I'd say Grayson/Hill and #24 works.

I'm still fixated on Middleton for Barnes and #4. But would do that Bogdan deal as a fallback.

In an ideal world Allen would have shown enough where we wouldn't have to think about trading more assets to get a more expensive and more injury prone upgrade (who also screwed us with the leak and tampering stuff).

That said, maybe the Bucks are still high on Grayson, but I'm having a hard time psyching myself up about the potential for him to take a significant step forward next year.

RE Middleton -- I was more interested in the Kings scenario before being reminded of just how good Khash was last finals.

If we think his body has another playoff run or two like that in him then I fear this kind of Middleton trade would be more about ownership saving money than the chances it actually leads to a long term upgrade on the court.

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[randy84]

Brogdon would probably just pull a donte and get injured at a very inopportune time

Isn't that called a Middleton?

[theFireBlanket]

Brogdon would probably just pull a donte and get injured at a very inopportune time

Isn't that called a Middleton?

We calling floor slips chronic now?

[CharityStripe34]

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So probs not keeping the pick again. Not a fan if that's the case.

After hearing Horst, it's pretty clear that:

1) There will be no trades involving Jrue, Middleton or Lopez. So all of you who come up with these trade scenarios are wasting the effort. Might want to think about scenarios that are actually possible.

2) Horst will never get rid of Bud, no matter what happens. He loves the guy.

3) Horst's priority is getting more shooters. He thinks the defense is fine and blames the middling performance on defense this year entirely on missing Lopez. It amazes me that the two reporters discuss rim protection with Horst, but not one mention of the consistently abysmal three point defense and the need to change something there.

4) Pretty likely the pick will be packaged. He actually feels good about how he has used his first round draft picks-named Tucker, Mirotic, Allen and others as good use of the picks. If he loved Tucker so much (and I do), why then let him go? Why brag about Mirotic
and Allen?

5) He clearly thinks that running it back with the same players will do the trick(and maybe he's right).

6) Sounds like Matthews and Carter will be back.

All part of the plan to throw everyone off the trade scent. Lol.

I'd look to trade Brook ASAP but he's beloved by the team.

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[rilamann]

Now that the season is done and over and everything is in hindsight. The thing that probably annoys me the most about the Celtics series (besides Bud not playing Carter) looking back on it, and it annoyed me a lot at the time, but annoys me more now. Is that we made Grant Williams look like a way better player than he actually is the entire series.

I remember during the series saying the he is not really a threat offensively unless you continuously leave him wide open, which we did. Especially in game 7, obviously.

And I also said that Grant Williams' only real chance to slow Giannis down would be to hold his ground/position in the paint and then hope that Giannis just continuously keeps trying to barrel into him. Felt like every time Giannis had Grant Williams on him, he just tried to barrel into him. Grant Williams is an aggressive and undersized defender, especially against Giannis, Giannis should have squared him up in the post and hit him with some pump fakes and got him off balance and used his length and athleticism, Giannis would have cooked him. I was saying this after game 2 of our series, Giannis just kept trying to barrel into him all series it seemed.

Bam actually cooked Grant Williams in game 3 of their series doing just that. Bam was hitting him with pump fakes in the paint and Grant Williams was biting on every one of them. Strangely, Bam didn't really try to do it again after game 3.

That's my little end of season rant...lol.

Not sure why you limited your rant to Williams. Horford was also left wide open and burned the Bucks. I love these articles about how Horford was rejuvenated. Well if you leave a guy wide open to shoot flat footed set shots, he will make them until he's 50.

Letting Horford get off was annoying too, but not as annoying to me as Grant Williams. Horford is a vet and still a pretty damn good player, you kind of expect them to get some nice production from him. Grant Williams only chance to have any sort of impact on the game offensively is if you continuously leave him wide open. I think the reason why Grant Williams annoys me more now in hindsight is due to the Warriors making him look exactly like the guy we thought he was. While we lost game 7 because we essentially let him shoot around in an empty gym until he got into a rhythm.

And defensively Horford has size and he's a lot more disciplined than Grant Williams. So when Horford does a nice job on Giannis you can kind of tip your hat. But Giannis made Grant Williams look like a way better defender than he actually is by just trying to barrel into him. I'll give Grant Williams credit for the fact he's a guy who will hold his ground and is willing to draw a charge or take an elbow to the face for a defensive stop, but he's undersized and overly aggressive at times. Giannis could have cooked him if he had done something other than just try to barrel into him. Grant Williams' only chance vs Giannis was to hold his ground and hope that Giannis got tunnel vision and just tried to go through him, Giannis played right into his hands. Horford is not going to fall for pump fakes and or get off balance biting on a spin move, but Giannis could have should have played Grant Williams off the court.

[rilamann]

Has there ever been a report about Sac wanting Middleton? Ive seen it mentioned here forever but was curious if it's just this board or from an actual rumor.

Sac is Sac and does weird **** so not saying they wouldn't want him. Just curious.

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No rumor, just Sac looking for a win now player and we have one. But Sac wouldn't be trading Barnes with #4 in any Middleton deal (and they kinda need to because of salary matching) so it's a moot point.

I was told they wouldn’t part with Halliburton. Heck, Hinkie got multiple firsts out of them in order to take back salary so they could sign Rondo. Middleton would be a win-now dream for Vivek. He’d do it.

We used to be the Sacramento Kings, we know how they think.



They'll do anything for a shot at the #7 seed and Middleton would give them a real shot at it.

[Milbucks96]

The number 4 pick has been pretty underwhelming for the last decade. No stars and a couple good starters in porzingus and jjj. Scottie seems to be growing into one though. You also have Westbrook/cp3/Bosh from 15+ years ago. Isn’t this mainly a 3 man draft with a noticeable drop off after?

All stars get picked all over the draft but we need a second option if we ship Khris off and idk if anybody at that pick comes in and becomes that anytime soon. I would only do it if Giannis promises to stick through a quick rebuild.

[machu46]

The number 4 pick has been pretty underwhelming for the last decade. No stars and a couple good starters in porzingus and jjj. Scottie seems to be growing into one though. You also have Westbrook/cp3/Bosh from 15+ years ago. Isn’t this mainly a 3 man draft with a noticeable drop off after?

All stars get picked all over the draft but we need a second option if we ship Khris off and idk if anybody at that pick comes in and becomes that anytime soon. I would only do it if Giannis promises to stick through a quick rebuild.

A bunch of people, myself included, view it as a 4 person draft. I still wouldn’t trade Middleton or Jrue for the pick though.


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[randy84]

Brogdon would probably just pull a donte and get injured at a very inopportune time

Isn't that called a Middleton?

We calling floor slips chronic now?

More about the inopportune time. I don't remember Donte ever getting injured at an inopportune time. As a matter of fact, last time he was injured and couldn't play the Bucks won the title.

[randy84]

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So probs not keeping the pick again. Not a fan if that's the case.

After hearing Horst, it's pretty clear that:

1) There will be no trades involving Jrue, Middleton or Lopez. So all of you who come up with these trade scenarios are wasting the effort. Might want to think about scenarios that are actually possible.

2) Horst will never get rid of Bud, no matter what happens. He loves the guy.

3) Horst's priority is getting more shooters. He thinks the defense is fine and blames the middling performance on defense this year entirely on missing Lopez. It amazes me that the two reporters discuss rim protection with Horst, but not one mention of the consistently abysmal three point defense and the need to change something there.

4) Pretty likely the pick will be packaged. He actually feels good about how he has used his first round draft picks-named Tucker, Mirotic, Allen and others as good use of the picks. If he loved Tucker so much (and I do), why then let him go? Why brag about Mirotic
and Allen?

5) He clearly thinks that running it back with the same players will do the trick(and maybe he's right).

6) Sounds like Matthews and Carter will be back.

I pretty much stopped listening after he said the Ibaka trade was a great trade.

[German Athens]

How much of an upgrade would Monte Morris + Jeff Green for Allen + Hill be?

Imagine we'd have to include #24 or other draft assets is the rub.

I’d love to have Morris here, and then slide Jrue to the 2. He’s competent in the pick n roll, and he’s a pretty incredibly efficient scorer from every area on the court.

For his career:
0-3ft: 70.8%
3-10ft: 42.8%
10-16ft: 47.8%
16-3: 46.7%
3: 39.4%

All of those either stayed the same or were better this past year.

Having more guys who can do damage from all areas of the court, coupled with the ability to identify what the defense is giving them, would do wonders.

I really don’t know how his defense is, and how that would hold up.

With that said, that package plus 24 feels a bit rich, and seconds in place of 24 doesn’t feel like enough.


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[emunney]

Officially fascinated by the idea of #24, Hill, and scraps for Melton. It's the move we need.

[Ron Swanson]

Yeah, if Morris can be had for cheap because Denver wants to keep their luxury tax bill low, then that's a pretty no-brainer move to pursue. Monte would be a perfect fit here.

[FlagsFlyForever]

I pretty much stopped listening after he said the Ibaka trade was a great trade.

That's not what I took from that quote at all. He was being professional to Ibaka and using GM speak where everything is always rainbows and lollipops, but it was about as close as a current GM will ever get to admitting they made a bad trade.

Q: Looking back, how do you evaluate the Serge Ibaka trade?

Horst: I would say how it played out all the way through the end of the playoffs without any background context or behind-the-scenes knowledge you’ll never get — we were down a wing and we were plus a big. So, we traded a wing for a big, so probably not great, right? When it happened, we absolutely needed Serge to come in and bridge the gap. So beyond the insurance part of Brook (Lopez), we needed immediate help and someone to come in. That’s where we felt we were at that point in the season.

And Serge did a great job. Serge really came in and helped bridge that gap for us in a big way. Beyond that, he was an incredible professional. He is a very good player that was ready. He was ready for every game in the playoffs, he was ready for every game in the regular season that he was with us. So, Serge himself I thought was a great add.

The need itself didn’t become as big as it could have or that we worried that it could have, and so that’s why we got the insurance on him. And at the end of the day, we traded Donte, who would’ve been a restricted free agent, for some future assets that I think we’ll be able to use and hopefully repurpose and do something that can continue to help this team going forward.

But obviously how it played out, being down a wing and up a big, not the greatest. But, totally convinced and convicted on why we did it, how we did it, and I’m actually really happy with the outcome and I think it got us to the position we were.