Giannis Thread - 2 Time MVP - The Contract discussions

[Matches Malone]

The way twirl describes PP and Mickey, I just imagine them as the old guys from the muppets.

[trwi7]

Mickey “Statler” Davis and Paul “Waldorf” Pressey.

[JayMKE]

if Giannis wants out then he should not sign the supermax not try to scam us so he could get paid even more on the Lakers.

Are you even listening to yourself?

You would rather him just walk for nothing than have a 2-Time MVP caliber trade asset, disgruntled or not, locked up long-term? Just because it would hurt your feelings if he asks out at some point? If he bounces after next season without any extension, that would more villainous than signing the supermax and later requesting a trade. He'd be doing us a favor by extending first, giving us some power to command a king's ransom down the line if things don't go as planned.

Like I said, he can ask but the team doesn't have to listen and it wouldn't only be his feelings we'd be violating not his contract. After he signs his contract, there is no leverage he has to force a trade. Want out? Okay, 2025 isn't that far away. Are you telling me Giannis is going to sit out for years to get his way? I doubt it really, I'm not too worried about this nonsensical scenario.

If I didn't know better I'd think a number of you guys were actually envious of OKC's position, same with Philly before they blew their wad(Thank you Colangelo & Brand) I'm sorry, I don't jerk off to future picks and swaps. I don't enjoy the NBA enough to continue watching when I know the result is predetermined, the product is just absolutely awful now. I piss on Hinkie and Morey.

[JayMKE]

This is such bull in so many ways.

If Giannis didn't sign the supermax and kicked, we would be left with nothing. If he signs it and asks out a couple years later, we get the biggest trade package in sports history. I read your other posts and you seem to think we are doomed as a franchise if we have no Giannis - that is such a joke of a mentality. Look at OKC and how many picks they have. We would get a boatload of picks and young players. There is no reality where we would get some mediocre **** in exchange for him. There is also no reality where losing Giannis for absolutely nothing is preferable to trading him for assets

And if Giannis signs the supermax with us but wants out later on, it would be because we have failed in the playoffs and he doesn't think we can win a championship anytime soon. Elite players don't remain elite forever, they have a timeframe where they are at there best and have the best chance of winning. How can you fault him for asking out in that situation?

The last part of your post can apply to every team in the NBA other than the handful of big market teams. If Giannis signs the supermax, that shows that he wants to spend at least a couple more years in Milwaukee. Milwaukee might not have the weather and endorsements that other teams have but if the org can build a team that is a contender year in and year out, players will want to play here. It has already started to happen...

If he wants out, it is what it is. He gave us a lot of good years, and we at least get something back for him. That something will probably not be as good as Giannis, but at least we aren't left completely bare. I will still be cheering for us to hit on those draft picks to find another star and build a contender again.

But what you can't do is create a toxic situation where you don't trade the best player your franchise has had when he requests a trade. *And I am assuming that this trade request would happen at least 2 years into his extension*. That would make the Bucks org go from a place where not a lot of players want to play... into a place where no one wants to play.

I'd say OKC has a huge collection of mostly mediocre ****, they have a great future as a farm team tho.

[paulpressey25]

JayMKE is pretty young and already yells at clouds. Wonder what he reaches the ages of our moderators.

I'm 30.

Right. Pretty young.

Jay is sage beyond his years. He’s merely voicing fan frustration with this new paradigm whereby players now decide where they play, even when under contract with a different team. Makes it much more challenging to be a fan of the 20 or so small/mid market teams. What’s the point of emotionally investing, just to be a farm team for the Lakers and Heat.

[Gianstoppable]

I'm 30.

Right. Pretty young.

Jay is sage beyond his years. He’s merely voicing fan frustration with this new paradigm whereby players now decide where they play, even when under contract with a different team. Makes it much more challenging to be a fan of the 20 or so small/mid market teams. What’s the point of emotionally investing, just to be a farm team for the Lakers and Heat.

We've mainly been a farm for the Pistons lately at least

[Mags FTW]

If you were going to sign the Supermax, wouldn't you do it right away? I'd be too afraid that I was going to get in a car accident or something to wait.

[mke_design]

JayMKE is pretty young and already yells at clouds. Wonder what he reaches the ages of our moderators.

I'm 30.

Same


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RiotPunch]

if Giannis wants out then he should not sign the supermax not try to scam us so he could get paid even more on the Lakers.

Are you even listening to yourself?

You would rather him just walk for nothing than have a 2-Time MVP caliber trade asset, disgruntled or not, locked up long-term? Just because it would hurt your feelings if he asks out at some point? If he bounces after next season without any extension, that would more villainous than signing the supermax and later requesting a trade. He'd be doing us a favor by extending first, giving us some power to command a king's ransom down the line if things don't go as planned.

Like I said, he can ask but the team doesn't have to listen and it wouldn't only be his feelings we'd be violating not his contract. After he signs his contract, there is no leverage he has to force a trade. Want out? Okay, 2025 isn't that far away. Are you telling me Giannis is going to sit out for years to get his way? I doubt it really, I'm not too worried about this nonsensical scenario.

If I didn't know better I'd think a number of you guys were actually envious of OKC's position, same with Philly before they blew their wad(Thank you Colangelo & Brand) I'm sorry, I don't jerk off to future picks and swaps. I don't enjoy the NBA enough to continue watching when I know the result is predetermined, the product is just absolutely awful now. I piss on Hinkie and Morey.

We obviously all want Giannis to be a Buck for life. I certainly think Giannis wants that as well. This doomsday scenario where he requests a trade would very likely not come to pass unless we continued to collectively fail to deliver in the playoffs. You would really look at our body of work and tell him, 'tough luck, you signed the contract!'? It's bad optics to force a disgruntled superstar to play out his deal, and you just allow the trade value to waste away over time before he leaves for nothing later. If the writing is on the wall that the relationship has soured, you try your best to recoup assets to stay out of NBA purgatory.

Houston and Harden is an interesting case, though. Maybe they get off to a strong start and Harden changes his tune, but it feels like delaying the inevitable. They are better off dealing to the highest bidder, IMO. The relationship has soured.

At the end of the day, while I understand your frustration with the NBA landscape, the notion of preferring an MVP to walk out the door for nothing, rather than having the ability to at least recoup assets after trying and failing to win it all with him, is both impulsive and asinine. The guy can sign with good intentions, and have things go to ****.

[humanrefutation]

I get the frustration with star players forcing trades mid-contract, but how often has that actually happened?

There have been a few cases where guys indicated strongly that they weren't going to sign an extension, and got dealt with a year left on their deals (Kawhi, PG, AD, Boogie, Young Dwight come to mind). You have guys who bounce in FA (LeBron, KD, etc). There are extremely rare cases where a team blows someone away with a package (OKC's PG haul), or there's a declining superstar on a bad contract getting moved (CP3, Russ).

But you don't have guys often demanding trades in the middle of their deals. I don't think they want to stomach that kind of toxicity when there's no guarantee they'll get their move.

I think if Giannis is serious about preserving his options, he should either wait a year or sign a short term extension.

Either way, I'm bracing myself for not good news here. The delay is disconcerting.

[BucksRule18]

Not sure what to think at this point. Giving all those #1 draft picks and swaps to NO to get Holiday sort of negates what we get back for Giannis if he signs the supermax and asks for a trade in a year or 2. What I mean is that if Giannis signs the supermax deal and asks for a trade after next season, Holiday likely walks for nothing. Even if we get 5 No. 1 picks for Giannis, they would still not equal what we gave up for Holiday since the team Giannis goes to will be a playoff contender, resulting in picks in the 25-30 range. In contrast, we will likely be a lottery team moving forward with 2 core pieces gone and NO reaping the benefits. I'd rather have 3 picks in the 1-14 range than 7 in the 25-30.

As far as Giannis is concerned, he wants to win championships. I personally don't see him signing the supermax deal and asking for a trade because A.) the Bucks could trade him to a non contender, which hurt his chances even more, or B.) trade him to a contender, but gut that team in the process, which again hurts his chances to win a title. I personally think that either Giannis signs the supermax deal and honors it all the way through, or waits until next year to see how the Bucks do in the playoffs. If we fizzle out again, he will likely sign a 1+1 deal with a contender (likely Miami or Golden State) while keeping that team's core intact for a future championship run.

[BucksRule18]

I love Giannis more than any other Bucks player since I started cheering for the team in 1982. That being said, my gut tells me that Horst made the Holiday trade with a strong suspicion that Giannis will sign the supermax deal this year. I highly doubt Horst bet the entire team's future on a 1-year rental (Holiday) without consent from Giannis first. If Giannis does a 180 and tells Horst that he'll wait until next year to sign the supermax deal, and then decides to bolt, it would really be gut wrenching. At that point I would not cheer him on, even if he went to a team like Dallas. Not only would we miss out on getting back a huge package for a generational player in a trade, but would also lose an additional 4 future lottery picks to a NO team that will likely be a playoff contender soon.

[JayMKE]

It's a crazy hypothetical, I love Giannis and can't see him doing that which is why it would hurt so much more if he did. I'm not too worried about the optics tho, AD came out looking way worse than New Orleans and there was a lot more legitimate argument that NO never put a decent team around AD than there is here with Giannis. Hopefully we don't **** it up that bad the next few years. I don't think Giannis is a finger pointer and its a fact him getting shut down vs Toronto/Miami is ultimately why we lost, other guys **** the bed too but Giannis can't get a pass.

[HKPackFan]

JayMKE is pretty young and already yells at clouds. Wonder what he reaches the ages of our moderators.

I'm 30.

Same


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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[paulpressey25]

But you don't have guys often demanding trades in the middle of their deals. I don't think they want to stomach that kind of toxicity when there's no guarantee they'll get their move. .

RJ, Mo Williams, Jake Voskuhl, etc.

The delay is disconcerting.

Agreed. It doesn't seem like there would be any PR value in continuing to hold this up. No benefit for either side. All the other big rookies signed their mega extensions a week ago.

[Pachinko_]

Like I said, he can ask but the team doesn't have to listen and it wouldn't only be his feelings we'd be violating not his contract. After he signs his contract, there is no leverage he has to force a trade. Want out? Okay, 2025 isn't that far away. Are you telling me Giannis is going to sit out for years to get his way? I doubt it really, I'm not too worried about this nonsensical scenario.

If I didn't know better I'd think a number of you guys were actually envious of OKC's position, same with Philly before they blew their wad(Thank you Colangelo & Brand) I'm sorry, I don't jerk off to future picks and swaps. I don't enjoy the NBA enough to continue watching when I know the result is predetermined, the product is just absolutely awful now. I piss on Hinkie and Morey.

Come on man, when you are exaggerating like that I don't even know what you mean. What is predetermined? The Spurs, Pistons and Raptors (which is a team from another friggin country that nobody wants to set foot in) won championships because instead of complaining that somebody else has to make things easier for them, they became better at everything.

And nobody told you to jerk off to anything, geez. All I said is that it's better to have a bunch of picks than not have them.

[Cythaps]

I love Giannis more than any other Bucks player since I started cheering for the team in 1982. That being said, my gut tells me that Horst made the Holiday trade with a strong suspicion that Giannis will sign the supermax deal this year. I highly doubt Horst bet the entire team's future on a 1-year rental (Holiday) without consent from Giannis first. If Giannis does a 180 and tells Horst that he'll wait until next year to sign the supermax deal, and then decides to bolt, it would really be gut wrenching. At that point I would not cheer him on, even if he went to a team like Dallas. Not only would we miss out on getting back a huge package for a generational player in a trade, but would also lose an additional 4 future lottery picks to a NO team that will likely be a playoff contender soon.

There are some pretty bold assumptions here. First of all, GMs don't give a flying **** about a team's long term future, especially if the picks they're trading are not in the next 4 years. They only care about keeping their job. You really think that Horst expects to be the Bucks GM in 5 and 7 years from now that the first round picks to the Pelicans are due? His only chance to stay with the Bucks for that long is if Giannis stays too. And if Giannis stays, those picks will be worth peanuts. He's going all in with someone else's money.

I'm not saying that Giannis won't sign, I'm just saying that Horst could have done these trades without Giannis' consent.

[DavidDunn21]

Never let someone else tell you how to be a fan

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[Cythaps]

Hopefully we don't **** it up that bad the next few years. I don't think Giannis is a finger pointer and its a fact him getting shut down vs Toronto/Miami is ultimately why we lost, other guys **** the bed too but Giannis can't get a pass.

Well, if he decides to leave, that's the exact reason why. He would want to go somewhere that if he gets shut down, someone else could help carry the load. If it was all only up to him, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place.

[BJ Sandered]

Jay is sage beyond his years. He’s merely voicing fan frustration with this new paradigm whereby players now decide where they play, even when under contract with a different team. Makes it much more challenging to be a fan of the 20 or so small/mid market teams. What’s the point of emotionally investing, just to be a farm team for the Lakers and Heat.

It's gotten to the point where if TPTB in the NBA won't even allow most teams to thrive and constantly try to maneuver/manipulate certain players into certain teams/markets, then at least half of the teams in the league are basically null and void and might as well be wiped out completely.

In the words of Captain Kirk: