Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions

[fansinceforever]

Let Livingston cook in Bobby's place.

I agree with this.

[Ron Swanson]

T-Wolves are 6-6 right now after dropping back-to-back games against Portland. Don't think the Julius Randle experiment is working out, and they may be a team to keep an eye on going forward. If they're still floating around .500 in December, I wonder if they'd actually shop McDaniels for an offensive upgrade.

[-Jragon-]

Let Livingston cook in Bobby's place.

I agree with this.

When did Liv get better than Smith

[fansinceforever]

Let Livingston cook in Bobby's place.

I agree with this.

When did Liv get better than Smith

I think Livingston can theoretically hold his position and provide a little bit more resistance defensively.

But sure, try both. Just get Bobby out of here and get anything of value in.

[crkone]

I agree with this.

When did Liv get better than Smith

I think Livingston can theoretically hold his position and provide a little bit more resistance defensively.

But sure, try both. Just get Bobby out of here and get anything of value in.

Yeah I was mainly thinking defensively as he's theoretically more switchable than Smith and rebounds well for his size.

[machu46]

I think the problem is that Giannis is at his best when he can just focus on Giannis and vice versa for Dame. They are both used to shouldering a humongous load.

True, you can still satisfy it though. When one hits a couple shots, keep going back to him for a stretch of possessions to get that "on fire" feeling

Problem is, this only addresses the offense. Championship teams also play defense, which is impossible with Dame.

Move Dame to Miami, where he can hide in a lazy zone, and get buckets without Championship expectations.

My guess is that building a strong defense with Dame playing as many minutes as he does is probably impossible at this point (even with Portland I think they were literally the worst defensive team in the league across his last 3 or 4 seasons there), but they did have a couple top 10 defensive units during his time there and it wouldn't be the first time we've seen poor defensive PGs on good defensive teams. It's a major challenge if not an impossible challenge though.

[machu46]

The teams that Brook projects to be playable against in the playoffs are disproportionately in the west - minny (gobert), Sacto (sabonis), nuggets (jokic), suns (nurkic), thunder (hartenstein). It's most of them.

The east in the opposite. It's predominantly shooters &/or athletes. That's a problem. Why Brook may have more value to another team. A similar equation is true for Bobby, cuz of his lack of footspeed & our perimeter d. But we need to get a big or 2 back.

I think Brook is playable most of the time if he's able to score effectively. Like against the Knicks for example, I think you could probably stick him on Hart and be okay defensively, but if Brook is in one of his shooting slumps and isn't getting any touches inside, it kinda defeats the purpose of having him out there. I also just don't really agree that the East is a huge issue; after Boston I think it's mostly teams Brook is perfectly fine against.

Cleveland - multiple non-shooting bigs
Orlando - probably fine on Carter
Miami - generally plays Bam well
Philly - Need him against Embiid
Indy - Turner is a tough matchup for sure.

And then you have the fringier/younger teams like Chicago, Atlanta, Detroit, etc., none of whom should really scare you very much.

Now if you just want to argue that having such a slow-footed center is more of a problem than he's worth, that's pretty reasonable. But I don't think there's really anything inherent about the East that should scare us more than the West.

[machu46]

Bobby was out and someone else cleaned the glass. Rebounding stats ae a little overrated. Defense is more valuable.

A lot of the Bobby rebounds are when the other teams' whole squad is running back on defense after a missed shot and our guards let him grab it.

This describes a lot of rebounds in the NBA, but I'd say Bobby fights pretty hard for the contested ones. Of his 90 rebounds this year, 32 of them are categorized as contested rebounds, 35.5%. The only player on the team that has a higher share of their rebounds as contested is Brook at 46%.

Do agree that rebounding stats in general are overrated but it's pretty apparent from watching Bobby how hard he works on the glass. Whether or not that outweighs his flaws defensively (and inefficient shot profile offensively) is definitely up for debate though lol.

[SupremeHustle]

We can fight for 4th seed, but we desperately need a point guard (to play WITH Dame), and we need Khris back if we want to do anything in the postseason.

I was an early believer in Rollins. I think he will be a real NBA player, hopefully for the Bucks. But I wouldn't mind bringing in a more experienced PG who Dame can share the court with. Fultz, Flynn, maybe Dennis Smith. Maybe my guy Kira Lewis. Dame is more of a two than a one these days. Maybe he's always been a Steve Francis-type. I dunno.

And we still need a young, energy big. Bro doesn't even need to be a real offensive threat. Just hustle, block some shots, run the court like Dan Gadzuric in a contract year, catch a lob or two. There's gotta be one out there somewhere. Is Olivier Sarr any good? Moses Brown? HELP!

[-Jragon-]

Correct me if there is a stat to refute this, but the thing I see with Brook is that 90% of the time he's helping you somehow still. Size, screens, boxouts, tapouts, blocks, shot challenges, big man dunk denials.....

When Bobby or KM are off on their shot you get nothing

[soxperry]

Correct me if there is a stat to refute this, but the thing I see with Brook is that 90% of the time he's helping you somehow still. Size, screens, boxouts, tapouts, blocks, shot challenges, big man dunk denials.....

When Bobby or KM are off on their shot you get nothing

Khris provides playmaking even when his shot isnt falling. He's excellent at setting guys like Giannis and Brook up for extremely high percentage looks. He just kind of coordinates the offense. Defensively, Khris at least knows where to be and has some tact. Bobby is lost frequently and has zero defensive tact.

These two things are not remotely the same.

[-Jragon-]

Correct me if there is a stat to refute this, but the thing I see with Brook is that 90% of the time he's helping you somehow still. Size, screens, boxouts, tapouts, blocks, shot challenges, big man dunk denials.....

When Bobby or KM are off on their shot you get nothing

Khris provides playmaking even when his shot isnt falling. He's excellent at setting guys like Giannis and Brook up for extremely high percentage looks. He just kind of coordinates the offense. Defensively, Khris at least knows where to be and has some tact. Bobby is lost frequently and has zero defensive tact.

These two things are not remotely the same.

For Khris, for every decent pass he has (I never saw a great one; he's not J Kidd), doesn't his forced dribbles and sloppy pass turnovers even that out? Everytime he's playmaking that means Giannis and Dame aren't? Didn't it look like GTJ showed that flash last night that he can do it even more efficiently and smoother? KM is a 1 trick pony in my view

[-Jragon-]

KM's 1 trick is pretty impressive though... how many guys can get above .600 TS% while shooting mostly long 2's and not getting to the line very much? Before the 3 pointer was this popular it probably was more common.

[msiris]

Bobby was out and someone else cleaned the glass. Rebounding stats ae a little overrated. Defense is more valuable.

Or "rebounds are overrated, because defense is more important"? Any coach will tell you that defensive rebounding is part of playing defense, so separating the two is absurd.

When you play good D it leads to rebounds. D leads to rebounding Rebounding is not hard. Prince did it last night. Got to want to do it. That's why rebounding will not suffer if Bobby is traded. The D won't suffer as well. Scoring might suffer but he wants an extention and my personal opinion its time to move on for the right package.

[-Jragon-]

I just don't know if we NEED it... what we really need from km is nail big nuts 3 pointers and some stout defense.. he doesn't really give us what we NEED

[StickeeFingaz]

We can fight for 4th seed, but we desperately need a point guard (to play WITH Dame), and we need Khris back if we want to do anything in the postseason.

I was an early believer in Rollins. I think he will be a real NBA player, hopefully for the Bucks. But I wouldn't mind bringing in a more experienced PG who Dame can share the court with. Fultz, Flynn, maybe Dennis Smith. Maybe my guy Kira Lewis. Dame is more of a two than a one these days. Maybe he's always been a Steve Francis-type. I dunno.

And we still need a young, energy big. Bro doesn't even need to be a real offensive threat. Just hustle, block some shots, run the court like Dan Gadzuric in a contract year, catch a lob or two. There's gotta be one out there somewhere. Is Olivier Sarr any good? Moses Brown? HELP!

I think our guy Rollins just needs the experience and game reps and he’ll be a nice pairing with Dame.

[machu46]

Correct me if there is a stat to refute this, but the thing I see with Brook is that 90% of the time he's helping you somehow still. Size, screens, boxouts, tapouts, blocks, shot challenges, big man dunk denials.....

When Bobby or KM are off on their shot you get nothing

Khris provides playmaking even when his shot isnt falling. He's excellent at setting guys like Giannis and Brook up for extremely high percentage looks. He just kind of coordinates the offense. Defensively, Khris at least knows where to be and has some tact. Bobby is lost frequently and has zero defensive tact.

These two things are not remotely the same.

For Khris, for every decent pass he has (I never saw a great one; he's not J Kidd), doesn't his forced dribbles and sloppy pass turnovers even that out? Everytime he's playmaking that means Giannis and Dame aren't? Didn't it look like GTJ showed that flash last night that he can do it even more efficiently and smoother? KM is a 1 trick pony in my view

It detracts from the value for sure, but for my money, he's the best passer/reader of the defense on the team. Giannis is good when he knows exactly where his teammates will be but struggles a bit more with his reads if the offensive is moving fluidly. Dame is an electric scorer and can make passes off the pressure he creates but he's not really the natural passer that Middleton is IMO. The main thing that detracts from Middleton's playmaking value is that he simply doesn't have the athleticism to consistently collapse the defense and create passing windows. He can get his shot off mostly whenever he wants and he's very good at reading the defense when he's working around screens, but he's not really someone that can get downhill out of isolation.

Of course it would be nice if his handle was a little tighter, but it's fine enough; he's still awesome in the two-man game.

[msiris]

KM's 1 trick is pretty impressive though... how many guys can get above .600 TS% while shooting mostly long 2's and not getting to the line very much? Before the 3 pointer was this popular it probably was more common.

No denying that but he never sees the floor and he is extremely injury prone. Has not been worth his last contract.

[Badgerlander]

We can fight for 4th seed, but we desperately need a point guard (to play WITH Dame), and we need Khris back if we want to do anything in the postseason.

I was an early believer in Rollins. I think he will be a real NBA player, hopefully for the Bucks. But I wouldn't mind bringing in a more experienced PG who Dame can share the court with. Fultz, Flynn, maybe Dennis Smith. Maybe my guy Kira Lewis. Dame is more of a two than a one these days. Maybe he's always been a Steve Francis-type. I dunno.

And we still need a young, energy big. Bro doesn't even need to be a real offensive threat. Just hustle, block some shots, run the court like Dan Gadzuric in a contract year, catch a lob or two. There's gotta be one out there somewhere. Is Olivier Sarr any good? Moses Brown? HELP!

I think Schroder+DFS solves our problems, maybe Bobby+ to the Kings gets us some assets to work with

[soxperry]

Correct me if there is a stat to refute this, but the thing I see with Brook is that 90% of the time he's helping you somehow still. Size, screens, boxouts, tapouts, blocks, shot challenges, big man dunk denials.....

When Bobby or KM are off on their shot you get nothing

Khris provides playmaking even when his shot isnt falling. He's excellent at setting guys like Giannis and Brook up for extremely high percentage looks. He just kind of coordinates the offense. Defensively, Khris at least knows where to be and has some tact. Bobby is lost frequently and has zero defensive tact.

These two things are not remotely the same.

For Khris, for every decent pass he has (I never saw a great one; he's not J Kidd), doesn't his forced dribbles and sloppy pass turnovers even that out? Everytime he's playmaking that means Giannis and Dame aren't? Didn't it look like GTJ showed that flash last night that he can do it even more efficiently and smoother? KM is a 1 trick pony in my view

Well, no. Its not about flash or style, its how you can manipulate a defense and generate a high percentage look. Khris has his share of awkward moments but his Ast:TO ratio is usually a bit better than Giannis and slightly worse than Dame (who is a 6'2 guard).

Whether or not Khris is hitting shots that night, he has a reputation and defenses must always honor it. He can hit an array if jumpers, he can hit floaters, and he is an excellent finisher with a number of available angles. Hes got great footwork and can usually get to his spots consistently. All of this means gravity. And he is smart and selfless enough to take advantage when teams overhelp.

Point is: he may not be the most talented passer in a vacuum but he knows how to attack a defense and usually makes great decisions. The fact that hes an elite shooter on top of that makes him incredibly valuable when hes healthy.

Im not trying to be an ass but uts baffling to me that anyone who has watched the Bucks over the years could think Khris is a one trick pony. ...unless that trick is being the glue that binds our offense