Around the League - IST Games talk

[skones]

Jokic is a great player, but I don't think I have seen a player go from severely underrated to severely overrated so fast.

I was one of his biggest fans 3 years ago, but the hype behind him makes it difficult.

As someone who really wants Giannis to seize the crown back, Jokic deserves his flowers right now given the current historic 3-year run he's on. Whenever I hear the good ol' "He just plays basketball the right way more than anyone I've ever seen" (borderline *dog whistle*) superlatives though?

Exactly! I was a fan of Joker before he was known as the Joker nationally. I don't want my small rant to take away from him. It's just similar to Lebron, Curry, etc. I have to not let the fans of these players make me dislike them because the hype train is ridiculous.

I keep hearing how there was never a player like Joker......I assume these people never watched Arvydas Sabonis in his prime because that is literally exactly what Joker is. Problem is, he didn't get to spend his prime in the NBA so most people didn't see what he could do.

Obviously, some of my Bucks/Giannis bias plays a part in it....but even besides that I am just sick of everyone gushing over Jokic like we never saw anything like this before. I see big men making passes (including, but not limited to Giannis) just as good as his and the players miss the shots. Heck, in the Bucks/Heat game Giannis had like 6 behind the back passes where the player missed a shot and few "attack the rim, wrap around passes" and the player missing a wide open 3.

All of us were just out there watching grainy footage of the Sabonis in the Spanish league which was readily available to all in the late 80s early 90s.

If you actually watch what's on youtube, in no way, shape, or form is Sabonis, "literally exactly what Joker is." Jokic is on an entirely different planet as a passer, and insisting that you see big men making passes "just as good as his" just reeks of denial. The mere comparison of passing to Giannis is just lol worthy.

You keep hearing there has never been a player like Jokic because there hasn't been a player like Jokic. Period.

[BUCKnation]

Wasn't Harden in China this offseason doing some Adidas promo when he called out Morey. I've heard how much he drops in a weekend in Vegas and Macau ain't far away if he wanted to play for the Shanghai Sharks.

I think he does like the basketball part of this whole thing, but he never seems content with his situation. Doc was on the Bill Simmons pod last week and it's pretty clear Doc hated him, but he did fully defend his 'want' to practice and just play ball.

He definitely has brand presence in China. Years ago when I watched games on hk cable, he was doing the China NBA ads during commercial breaks. This was 5-6 years ago.

Also, helps that the Rockets were China's team for years

[skbucks1985]

Jokic is a great player, but I don't think I have seen a player go from severely underrated to severely overrated so fast.

I was one of his biggest fans 3 years ago, but the hype behind him makes it difficult.

As someone who really wants Giannis to seize the crown back, Jokic deserves his flowers right now given the current historic 3-year run he's on. Whenever I hear the good ol' "He just plays basketball the right way more than anyone I've ever seen" (borderline *dog whistle*) superlatives though?

Exactly! I was a fan of Joker before he was known as the Joker nationally. I don't want my small rant to take away from him. It's just similar to Lebron, Curry, etc. I have to not let the fans of these players make me dislike them because the hype train is ridiculous.

I keep hearing how there was never a player like Joker......I assume these people never watched Arvydas Sabonis in his prime because that is literally exactly what Joker is. Problem is, he didn't get to spend his prime in the NBA so most people didn't see what he could do.

Obviously, some of my Bucks/Giannis bias plays a part in it....but even besides that I am just sick of everyone gushing over Jokic like we never saw anything like this before. I see big men making passes (including, but not limited to Giannis) just as good as his and the players miss the shots. Heck, in the Bucks/Heat game Giannis had like 6 behind the back passes where the player missed a shot and few "attack the rim, wrap around passes" and the player missing a wide open 3.

I was one of the biggest Jokic critics until the end of last year when I had to lay down my sword and say mea culpa. I still don't think he should've won his 2nd MVP but the question ultimately about him was, were the Nuggets 2 pretty pedestrian playoff runs during his MVP years a function of issues with him and how his weaknesses can be exploited in playoff matchups and how his strengths can be to some degree neutralized. Or was it pretty much entirely a function of Jamal Murray's injury. And after seeing them go 16-4 in the playoffs last year, I know which side of this I now fall on.

[Ron Swanson]

Yeah, the Sabonis comps need to stop. Sabonis was a different tier of athlete and defensive presence. Jokic is on another level as a passer. They're really not similar tier players at all. People talk about prime Arvydas like he was this mythical big-foot GOAT Center candidate only hindered by Cold War politics. We love to romanticize the "What-if" guys because their ceilings are as theoretically high as we want them to be. A lot of us saw early-to-mid 30's Arvydas play in the NBA, and he didn't stack up to guys like Hakeem and D-Rob at the same ages (31-35). He wasn't at that level.

[tydett]

You guys keep talking about Sabonis and PP gonna wind up in here relitigating picking Thon over his kid a few years ago

[paulpressey25]

You guys keep talking about Sabonis and PP gonna wind up in here relitigating picking Thon over his kid a few years ago

This father/son clip is awesome.The safe pick was on the board, and Hambone and Kidd fruited the beer.

Watch on YouTube

[emunney]

Yeah, the Sabonis comps need to stop. Sabonis was a different tier of athlete and defensive presence. Jokic is on another level as a passer. They're really not similar tier players at all. People talk about prime Arvydas like he was this mythical big-foot GOAT Center candidate only hindered by Cold War politics. We love to romanticize the "What-if" guys because their ceilings are as theoretically high as we want them to be. A lot of us saw early-to-mid 30's Arvydas play in the NBA, and he didn't stack up to guys like Hakeem and D-Rob at the same ages (31-35). He wasn't at that level.

I would say with this comp that Jokic is a better passer, but I think an equally big part of it is the complementary skills to set up the passing. Like, at least when he was in the NBA, which as you pointed out he wasn't *that* old, he was a fun player offensively because he was an uncommonly good passer and was huge and moved well for his size, but much more in the way that Brook moves well for his size. Which is to say: not that well.

Jokic lumbers up and down the court but he's an agile dude, and the scoring touch all over the court, the ball handling -- he can kill you however he wants. Sabonis was a great player and I don't want to discount him by calling him a novelty, but offensively, compared to Jokic, that's what he was.

[jute2003]

Yeah, the Sabonis comps need to stop. Sabonis was a different tier of athlete and defensive presence. Jokic is on another level as a passer. They're really not similar tier players at all. People talk about prime Arvydas like he was this mythical big-foot GOAT Center candidate only hindered by Cold War politics. We love to romanticize the "What-if" guys because their ceilings are as theoretically high as we want them to be. A lot of us saw early-to-mid 30's Arvydas play in the NBA, and he didn't stack up to guys like Hakeem and D-Rob at the same ages (31-35). He wasn't at that level.

Gotta take into account the blown up knees and the cigarettes and booze.

I remember watching old broken down sabonis putting up as much fight as anyone against Shaq when I was young. He probably wasn't as good as people imagine him to have been at his peak. A little whimsy never hurt anyone though.

[WeekapaugGroove]

If we're reminiscing about what could have been Drazen Petrovic is that dude. He was a baller and would have absolutely killed it in today 3 ball heavy style.

Sent from my SM-F731U using RealGM mobile app

[SupremeHustle]

Jordan Poole or Cam Thomas. Who you taking? Probably Cam, huh?

[skones]

Jordan Poole or Cam Thomas. Who you taking? Probably Cam, huh?

Cam Thomas has actually special scoring chops. It's the rest of his game that will ultimately determine whether he's a 6th man type or a star.

[Profound23]

You guys keep talking about Sabonis and PP gonna wind up in here relitigating picking Thon over his kid a few years ago

This father/son clip is awesome.The safe pick was on the board, and Hambone and Kidd fruited the beer.

Watch on YouTube

And maybe we are the ones who trade him for Haliburton?

[Profound23]

As someone who really wants Giannis to seize the crown back, Jokic deserves his flowers right now given the current historic 3-year run he's on. Whenever I hear the good ol' "He just plays basketball the right way more than anyone I've ever seen" (borderline *dog whistle*) superlatives though?

Exactly! I was a fan of Joker before he was known as the Joker nationally. I don't want my small rant to take away from him. It's just similar to Lebron, Curry, etc. I have to not let the fans of these players make me dislike them because the hype train is ridiculous.

I keep hearing how there was never a player like Joker......I assume these people never watched Arvydas Sabonis in his prime because that is literally exactly what Joker is. Problem is, he didn't get to spend his prime in the NBA so most people didn't see what he could do.

Obviously, some of my Bucks/Giannis bias plays a part in it....but even besides that I am just sick of everyone gushing over Jokic like we never saw anything like this before. I see big men making passes (including, but not limited to Giannis) just as good as his and the players miss the shots. Heck, in the Bucks/Heat game Giannis had like 6 behind the back passes where the player missed a shot and few "attack the rim, wrap around passes" and the player missing a wide open 3.

I was one of the biggest Jokic critics until the end of last year when I had to lay down my sword and say mea culpa. I still don't think he should've won his 2nd MVP but the question ultimately about him was, were the Nuggets 2 pretty pedestrian playoff runs during his MVP years a function of issues with him and how his weaknesses can be exploited in playoff matchups and how his strengths can be to some degree neutralized. Or was it pretty much entirely a function of Jamal Murray's injury. And after seeing them go 16-4 in the playoffs last year, I know which side of this I now fall on.

Thing is I am not a Joker critic, just a critic of his fanboys.

[VooDoo7]

Read on Twitter

[Licensed to Il]

Arvydas would have been an all timer had he been allowed in to the nba at age 18 or whatever. Much better athlete than any 7 footer at the time except David Robinson. Could shoot, could pass, played above the rim.

You have to understand the region he lived in, the country that controlled him wasn’t his native land, the equipment and facilities they trained on were like an inner city high school. Dude hawked jeans and booze for spending money.

Where he ranks head to head with Jokic, who knows. But Arvydas wasn’t the oaf he became in the nba. And his prime was robbed by politics, empire, and some level of (a Lithuanian) not wanting to bust his ass for an occupying, intruding, country (USSR).

[midranger]

Arvydas would have been an all timer had he been allowed in to the nba at age 18 or whatever. Much better athlete than any 7 footer at the time except David Robinson. Could shoot, could pass, played above the rim.

You have to understand the region he lived in, the country that controlled him wasn’t his native land, the equipment and facilities they trained on were like an inner city high school. Dude hawked jeans and booze for spending money.

Where he ranks head to head with Jokic, who knows. But Arvydas wasn’t the oaf he became in the nba. And his prime was robbed by politics, empire, and some level of (a Lithuanian) not wanting to bust his ass for an occupying, intruding, country (USSR).

I think this is all true.

[Licensed to Il]

A final thought on the Arvydas and Jokic debate.. Kyle Korver hit way more threes than Larry Bird, but the league doesn’t become what it is without Bird pioneering and mastering that shot. In the same way, Jokic is unquestionably the best passing big of all time. But he never learns that or plays that way if not for the style the Soviets and Yugoslavian teams developed in the 70s/80s. So I hate saying a guy from a later era is way advanced beyond someone who paved the way. Space Jam was way better than Who Framed Roger Rabbit, but you don’t get to Bill Murray dropping dimes to Bugs and MJ without those earlier attempts and innovations.

This post got weird.

[midranger]

Super unusual Space Jam >>>> Who Framed Roger Rabbit take.

But I agree with the rest

[TroyD92]

Mark Cuban is 65. wtf

[vital_signs]

This is hilarious

Watch on YouTube

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