Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Darvin Returns

[Baddy Chuck]

Haven't checked on him in a while, didn't realize Woelfel was now posting right wing talking points iwth his fake NBA sources, cool, cool.

[fansinceforever]

Dame and GA both only missed 9 games this year and they finished 6th in O rating. If Middleton played 0 instead of 55 games, where would they have been? They absolutely need Middleton to be a top 5 offense.

I think it's easier to improve around the margins and with another full season of Dame/coaching staff integration than it is to trade Middleton for multiple decent pieces and maintain the O while drastically improving the D.

This roster is not a guy at the 2 spot who can slide their feet away from winning a championship. Not in my opinion at least.

Disagree.

This is essentially the stalemate between most who want to explore Middleton trades and those who don't.

[ReasonablySober]

Middleton only offers offense at this point in his career, and that offense is not needed when you have Dame and Giannis. If you think that Khris and Dame, or Khris and Giannis can still win a title with what little the Bucks can put around them then sure keep Khris. But I can't imagine anyone believing that.

Weren’t you the guy that just said a couple weeks ago that the team didn’t really need to do much besides get a couple role players around Dame/Khris/Giannis/Brook and we were gonna juggernaut through the regular season assuming good health?

Yea, I think they should be considered the favorite right now. But I also think they can move Middleton to get younger,b be better defensively, be sitting with a better outlook heading into Giannis's 30s, and still remain the favorites.

Keep Middleton and all your eggs are in one basket since I don't see the other "assets" making an impact. Middleton is still very good and that's why he's the best trade asset the Bucks have.

[machu46]

I do think there’s an argument to be made that with the new CBA, it’s a lot more difficult to build around 3 very highly priced guys than it used to be and we could be better off with just two of those pieces. I just don’t think the proposals that people are bringing to the table are generally enough. There’s been a couple recently that I would be interested in (like that Kings one that included #13; definitely not interested without that pick, but I don’t see the Kings targeting him anyways).

I also tend to think Middleton fits pretty beautifully with Giannis and Dame so I’m in no rush to move on from him unless it’s a strong offer.


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Adding on to this, I also might be higher than most on the type of return we can get for Brook and or Bobby so maybe that’s part of the hang up in my head too.


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[Frank Nova]

1st trade

Bucks out - Brook Lopez

Bucks in - Marcus Smart and Vince Williams

2nd trade

Bucks out - Pat Connaughton and a future 2nd

Bucks in - Nick Richards

Dame/Smart/Khris/Giannis/Richards
Bev/Vince/Jackson Jr/Bobby
Green/Beauchamp/Livingston/Tyty/23/33

I'd rather keep Brook than make that deal.

Love the 2nd one and would hope to trade Brook to Houston or OKC.

Houston and OKC are both tough trade partners currently. Not being able to add Beauchamp means we’d probably lose draft picks dealing with either of those teams. Eason or Dort would be my main targets there. But it’d be a nice shot at Boston if we go out and get Smart and he wins a title in Milwaukee next year.

[fansinceforever]

Dame and GA both only missed 9 games this year and they finished 6th in O rating. If Middleton played 0 instead of 55 games, where would they have been? They absolutely need Middleton to be a top 5 offense.

I think it's easier to improve around the margins and with another full season of Dame/coaching staff integration than it is to trade Middleton for multiple decent pieces and maintain the O while drastically improving the D.

You're not factoring in what we receive for Middleton and additional personnel moves. The Bucks can build a very efficient offense capable of wining a championship around those two.

This roster is not a guy at the 2 spot who can slide their feet away from winning a championship. Not in my opinion at least.

We see this repeated ad nauseam, but the truth is last year was a disaster and its hard to analyze the teams ceiling. I know those 3 can win a title together, far less talented trios have. If you just look at the disaster that was last year I could see why you would think differently, but why do that in an honest argument? Its not honest

I don't understand. We're both stating opinions so why would yours be honest but you wouldn't consider mine to be?

[machu46]

1st trade

Bucks out - Brook Lopez

Bucks in - Marcus Smart and Vince Williams

2nd trade

Bucks out - Pat Connaughton and a future 2nd

Bucks in - Nick Richards

Dame/Smart/Khris/Giannis/Richards
Bev/Vince/Jackson Jr/Bobby
Green/Beauchamp/Livingston/Tyty/23/33

I'd rather keep Brook than make that deal.

Love the 2nd one and would hope to trade Brook to Houston or OKC.

Houston and OKC are both tough trade partners currently. Not being able to add Beauchamp means we’d probably lose draft picks dealing with either of those teams. Eason or Dort would be my main targets there. But it’d be a nice shot at Boston if we go out and get Smart and he wins a title in Milwaukee next year.

Not super familiar with Houston’s cap situation, but OKC has cap space right? I don’t see why we wouldn’t be able to trade with them. They have plenty of chips and picks that cost less than Brook.


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[bdpecore]

Lol it's funny to see people intentionally misunderstand the point. No one is disrespecting Middleton. Again, He is our BEST TRADE asset for a reason.

The Bucks are a middling, at best, defensive team. Middling defensive teams don't win championships. Trading Middleton while his value is high is our best chance to land multiple players that can extend the window. There is no window if you can't improve defensively.

I don’t see how guys like Tari Eason, Keagan Murray, Harrison Barnes, Davion Mitchell, Whitmore…etc extend our window when you’re removing a player who can completely take over a playoff game and replacing him with guys who cannot create their own shots and are dependent on your two stars. You do realize even superstar players have bad games or series. And teams are constantly making adjustments to take the ball out of their hands and make the other players beat them offensively.

[fansinceforever]

The reason to trade Middleton for most of us isn't to mitigate Injury risk. It's because he's our best trade asset for a team that desperately needs to get serious about it's defensive capabilities. We have top end offensive players.

"We have Brook, Bobby, Pat, 23 and 33 to move". Ok, and if that doesn't get us anywhere, what then?

Which is fine. But it better be for something better than 3 meh dudes and #13.

I'm not a huge fan of the Sac deal either.

Here's the one I've brought up several times and I think is (somewhat) realistic considering what Houston is putting out publicly and their offensive issues.

Houston gets: Middleton, Marjon, 33
Bucks get: Eason, Whitmore, Dillon Brooks

[Bernman]

If anything you're making the argument for me. That year the Bucks had two star scorers in Giannis (35 ppg) and Middleton (24 ppg), surrounded by defensive stars like Jrue, Lopez, and Tucker.

Dame and Giannis are all the offense you need next June. What's missing is the Jrue in this equation: 41 minutes of elite defense every game while also being a factor on offense.

If you can land that while only using some combination of 23, 33, and Bobby Portis I'd love to see it. But no one here has figured that out.

It's not making your case. You're shifting credit for Middleton onto Dame, and for some reason that's proof we can win with Dame & not Khris.

Plus, as you alluded to, we got Tucker, for peanuts. That's the perfect example how it doesn't take much to get difference-making d & adequate 3. That's all Jrue was. He wasn't a factor on O, w/ his 48 ts%. Most players could do that if they just took more shots.

Having 3 outstanding offensive starters instead of 2 increases your margin for error. In addition to theirs, Denver only needed to really good defensive players, & a 6th man who was solid, to win a title. And Middleton's a superior #3 to MPJ.

We can get 1-2 good d & adequate 3 guys thru a myriad of ways. Denver got KCP for Monte Morris & over-the-hill Barton. Gordon didn't cost much more.

Then there's trading Dame for a younger but moderately lesser core player, plus 1 or 2 d role guys, to win a championship w/ Giannis & Khris like we did before. And we'd have a better offensive 3rd banana to increase the margin for error this time.

[ReasonablySober]

If anything you're making the argument for me. That year the Bucks had two star scorers in Giannis (35 ppg) and Middleton (24 ppg), surrounded by defensive stars like Jrue, Lopez, and Tucker.

Dame and Giannis are all the offense you need next June. What's missing is the Jrue in this equation: 41 minutes of elite defense every game while also being a factor on offense.

If you can land that while only using some combination of 23, 33, and Bobby Portis I'd love to see it. But no one here has figured that out.

It's not making your case. You're shifting credit for Middleton onto Dame, and for some reason that's proof we can win with Dame & not Khris.

Plus, as you alluded to, we got Tucker, for peanuts. That's the perfect example how it doesn't take much to get difference-making d & adequate 3. That's all Jrue was. He wasn't a factor on O, w/ his 48 ts%. Most players could do that if they just took more shots.

Having 3 outstanding offensive starters instead of 2 increases your margin for error. In addition to theirs, Denver only needed to really good defensive players, & a 6th man who was solid, to win a title. And Middleton's a superior #3 to MPJ.

We can get 1-2 good d & adequate 3 guys thru a myriad of ways. Denver got KCP for Monte Morris & over-the-hill Barton. Gordon didn't cost much more.

Then there's trading Dame for a younger but moderately lesser core player, plus 1 or 2 d role guys, to win a championship w/ Giannis & Khris like we did before. And we'd have a better offensive 3rd banana to increase the margin for error this time.

Sure, I'd trade Dame too for the right offer. But we know that isn't happening.

The point is you only need two offensive stars. Klay Thompson was the last 3rd banana who approached 20 ppg in the playoffs, and he was a star defensively.

[Bernman]

Sure, I'd trade Dame too for the right offer. But we know that isn't happening.

The point is you only need two offensive stars. Klay Thompson was the last 3rd banana who approached 20 ppg in the playoffs, and he was a star defensively.

Sure, you only need 2 offensive stars. But if you have 3, that means if one gets injured for a week, which only needs to happen once in a couple months, you're not pretty much doomed like we were in '23.

We should have had enough still to beat Indy and keep it flowing until Giannis came back, but then Dame got injured too. And Middleton was hobbled in a couple games. It was the perfect storm. No reason to break-up the 3 offensive star formula.

[Baddy Chuck]

I'm still open to trades with Midds that make the team better. That "all in" Sacramento trade (Murray/#13/Ellis) seems fine value wise but I'm not sure we're a better team for it. Now you start talking flipping like #13 and Murray for something cool and maybe.

[Milbucks96]

I would bet that a playoff offense led by Dame, and Giannis and just a whole bunch defenders and shooters would be mediocre at best. And I doubt we would be able to build an all time defense like the one we had when we won it all.

[blazza18]

I'm totally fine with trading Middleton but it can't be understated how important he was when he played. Was literally our only wing player who could create for himself/others plus could shoot. When we didn't have a wing who could do that our line ups sucked.

And regardless of being pro Middleton or not. Count me as a guy who wants more playmakers, not less.

[buckboy]

1st trade

Bucks out - Brook Lopez

Bucks in - Marcus Smart and Vince Williams

2nd trade

Bucks out - Pat Connaughton and a future 2nd

Bucks in - Nick Richards

Dame/Smart/Khris/Giannis/Richards
Bev/Vince/Jackson Jr/Bobby
Green/Beauchamp/Livingston/Tyty/23/33

I'd rather keep Brook than make that deal.

Love the 2nd one and would hope to trade Brook to Houston or OKC.

Houston and OKC are both tough trade partners currently. Not being able to add Beauchamp means we’d probably lose draft picks dealing with either of those teams. Eason or Dort would be my main targets there. But it’d be a nice shot at Boston if we go out and get Smart and he wins a title in Milwaukee next year.

I'm assuming we'll be ducking the 2nd apron by ditching Marjon. That'd make things easier.

I don't think I'll ever be able to root for Smart. One of my 3 or 4 least favorite players ever.

[JonHeist]

150 pages of "should we trade khris???" discussion so far this offseason and there is yet to be a one single half-decent trade proposal in all those pages

talk about the draft instead ffs

[buckboy]

The reason to trade Middleton for most of us isn't to mitigate Injury risk. It's because he's our best trade asset for a team that desperately needs to get serious about it's defensive capabilities. We have top end offensive players.

"We have Brook, Bobby, Pat, 23 and 33 to move". Ok, and if that doesn't get us anywhere, what then?

Which is fine. But it better be for something better than 3 meh dudes and #13.

I'm not a huge fan of the Sac deal either.

Here's the one I've brought up several times and I think is (somewhat) realistic considering what Houston is putting out publicly and their offensive issues.

Houston gets: Middleton, Marjon, 33
Bucks get: Eason, Whitmore, Dillon Brooks

I like that better but I still wouldn't do it personally.

[PG Graveyard]

Haven't checked on him in a while, didn't realize Woelfel was now posting right wing talking points iwth his fake NBA sources, cool, cool.

He sucks so much

[Bucks4Milwaukee]

I'm still open to trades with Midds that make the team better. That "all in" Sacramento trade (Murray/#13/Ellis) seems fine value wise but I'm not sure we're a better team for it. Now you start talking flipping like #13 and Murray for something cool and maybe.

So what kind of value does Murray and 13 fetch in a big man? Or what role player needs to be added? Sounds like something Brooklyn would like but for Claxton? Not saying he’s the right fit but that’s the question I think we ask.

Then you see what you have left of our big man and what do they bring in for starting guards.