PGT: Blazers at Bucks

[Fight the Tank]

Based on the history of these guys (especially the older ones) they are doing pretty much exactly what they have always done for their teams. I like Skiles as much as the next guy but to think he was going to get more out of these guys than what they have historically shown was wishful thinking. These older guy have never been the most coachable guys in the league and Skiles doesn't have the greatest history of working with older selfish vets.

The good news is that it is early and we have time for guys to come together and get into shape, but right now the most predictable outcome of Hammond's moves is on display. The bad news is that with the deals these 3 are signed too, if they don't get it together we could be seeing a repeat of this for years to come. Of course their is the chance Hammond pulls on of his crap for RJ then RJ for crap trades that gives everyone hope again.[/quote]

Or these guys need to stop shooting below their career averages and we will win. They have not been playing up to their past at all.[/quote]

Salmons will probably shoot 26 percent this year.

It only took four games for the negativos to crawl out of their caves.[/quote]

YAWN...nothing of substance as usual. Just crying like a baby because someone make an honest analyses that doesn't contain unicorns or rainbows. I have an idea for you. If you don't like posters that give honest analysis then put them on ignore. That way you'll stop taking up space with your constant running to the teacher and whining how Jimmy used a bad word at recess.[/quote]

Haha....You give an honest assessment.....Looks like constant power whining to me. Yes though I should probably put you on ignore. Its the same garbage over and over again.

What part of Salmons shooting 26 percent was incorrect?

[Fight the Tank]

YAWN...nothing of substance as usual. Just crying like a baby because someone make an honest analyses that doesn't contain unicorns or rainbows. I have an idea for you. If you don't like posters that give honest analysis then put them on ignore. That way you'll stop taking up space with your constant running to the teacher and whining how Jimmy used a bad word at recess.

nicely phrased

Don't you have a superstar comment to play devil's advocate with right now?

[InsideOut]

If you look at my post I said Salmons has sucked.

What part of my analys was incorrect?

When was the last time Maggette or Gooden took teams to the next level? When was the last time Salmons signed an extension then took his game to the next level? When was the last time guys like Dooling, Brockman and Boykins were key pieces that could be counted on?

[Shinyhubcaps]

Does it actually surprise anyone that Salmons starts slow? It's happened the past two years at least.

[crkone]

While it is extremely early, I think we are seeing the most predictable outcome of Hammond's moves. I mean when was the last time Maggette or Gooden took teams to the next level? When was the last time Salmons signed an extension then took his game to the next level? When was the last time guys like Dooling, Brockman and Boykins were key pieces that could be counted on?

Based on the history of these guys (especially the older ones) they are doing pretty much exactly what they have always done for their teams. I like Skiles as much as the next guy but to think he was going to get more out of these guys than what they have historically shown was wishful thinking. These older guy have never been the most coachable guys in the league and Skiles doesn't have the greatest history of working with older selfish vets.

The good news is that it is early and we have time for guys to come together and get into shape, but right now the most predictable outcome of Hammond's moves is on display. The bad news is that with the deals these 3 are signed too, if they don't get it together we could be seeing a repeat of this for years to come. Of course their is the chance Hammond pulls on of his crap for RJ then RJ for crap trades that gives everyone hope again.

Or these guys need to stop shooting below their career averages and we will win. They have not been playing up to their past at all.

Against NO both Maggette and Gooden shot 50% and we still lost. Against Min they were two made shots from shooting 50% but we lost by 11 so who cares. The 3rd game we won so who cares. Against Portland they needed several makes to get to 50% but then again we lost by 14. Granted, Salmons sucks and he is killing us but then again we don't know if it's the injury or him going into his usual I just signed a contract funk. I don't know. The point is we added guys that have don't have much of a history of making teams winners so should be shocked if they don't make us 50 game winners?

Numerous factors were against the Bucks on opening night for NO like Bogut missing 7 of 10 FTs, West destroying it with his long 2s, Gooden 2-8 and Ersan 1-5. Actually NO looks very good to start the year and West is hitting 75% of his long 2s still. Against Minn the team was 3-20 on 3s. That is ridiculous and should not happen. BJ was 0-6, Salmons 0-2, Dooling 0-2, and numerous 0-1s in there. Gooden shot 4-13. The Bucks make 4 more threes (35% for the game then) and that's the game for us. Yesterday's game was bad for numerous players so I won't even go into that. All the players are just not playing up to their standards. Once people get into shape or settle into their roles, everything will fall into place.

[jerrod]

Don't you have a superstar comment to play devil's advocate with right now?

bucks = good
superstars = bad

gotcha

[Fight the Tank]

Don't you have a superstar comment to play devil's advocate with right now?

bucks = good
superstars = bad

gotcha

Making fun of cancer=good

[InsideOut]

Numerous factors were against the Bucks on opening night for NO like Bogut missing 7 of 10 FTs, West destroying it with his long 2s, Gooden 2-8 and Ersan 1-5. Actually NO looks very good to start the year and West is hitting 75% of his long 2s still. Against Minn the team was 3-20 on 3s. That is ridiculous and should not happen. BJ was 0-6, Salmons 0-2, Dooling 0-2, and numerous 0-1s in there. Gooden shot 4-13. The Bucks make 4 more threes (35% for the game then) and that's the game for us. Yesterday's game was bad for numerous players so I won't even go into that. All the players are just not playing up to their standards. Once people get into shape or settle into their roles, everything will fall into place.

I agree with a lot of this. I said 47 wins and I'm not changing yet (I know that makes me negative for some because I didn't say 50+). Again, this is such a small sample so who knows.

Back to my point...When was the last time Maggette or Gooden took teams to the next level? When was the last time Salmons signed an extension then took his game to the next level? When was the last time guys like Dooling, Brockman and Boykins were key pieces that could be counted on?

So do you feel these guys will deviate from their past and will in fact take us to new and higher levels? Is so, why do you feel their impact on wins will be so much better now that they are Bucks?

[crkone]

Numerous factors were against the Bucks on opening night for NO like Bogut missing 7 of 10 FTs, West destroying it with his long 2s, Gooden 2-8 and Ersan 1-5. Actually NO looks very good to start the year and West is hitting 75% of his long 2s still. Against Minn the team was 3-20 on 3s. That is ridiculous and should not happen. BJ was 0-6, Salmons 0-2, Dooling 0-2, and numerous 0-1s in there. Gooden shot 4-13. The Bucks make 4 more threes (35% for the game then) and that's the game for us. Yesterday's game was bad for numerous players so I won't even go into that. All the players are just not playing up to their standards. Once people get into shape or settle into their roles, everything will fall into place.

I agree with a lot of this. I said 47 wins and I'm not changing yet (I know that makes me negative for some because I didn't say 50+). Again, this is such a small sample so who knows.

Back to my point...When was the last time Maggette or Gooden took teams to the next level? When was the last time Salmons signed an extension then took his game to the next level? When was the last time guys like Dooling, Brockman and Boykins were key pieces that could be counted on?

So do you feel these guys will deviate from their past and will in fact take us to new and higher levels? Is so, why do you feel their impact on wins will be so much better now that they are Bucks?

I don't think they will deviate from their past but they aren't even playing up to their past production. Once Skiles and these players find their roles, they should produce to at least slightly below career averages. They aren't really the core players and we just need them to produce what they have in the past. We need Bogut and Jennings to step up their games (more so with Jennings) if we want this team to be better than last year.

[smooth 'lil balla]

Back to my point...When was the last time Maggette or Gooden took teams to the next level? When was the last time Salmons signed an extension then took his game to the next level? When was the last time guys like Dooling, Brockman and Boykins were key pieces that could be counted on?

So do you feel these guys will deviate from their past and will in fact take us to new and higher levels? Is so, why do you feel their impact on wins will be so much better now that they are Bucks?

Did you really ask when guys like Dooling, Brockman, and Boykins were key pieces that could be counted on? Look at any championship team and you'll find guys just like them.

In regards to Maggette, when was the last time he was on a team that was close to going to the next level? Gooden's had chances I guess, but he can't stay anywhere more than a year.

Still too early to judge this team.

[Sigra]

In good teams players know their roles. Right now our players don't know their roles and that is our main problem.

At any moment you need to have #1 option (who have to be double teamed if posible) and then all 4 other players are basicly role players at that moment. Last year we had that with Bogut and Salmons and Jennings. This year too many players try to be that and penetrate defenses by themself. That create chaos and bad chemistry. That and we added few legendary bad defenders in the mix. Things don't look good honestly and I hope for some 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 trade that will shorten our rotation and make more order in our play. Skiles is not in control of this mess right now.

[Thunder Muscle]

Horrible first game to go to. Really disappointed with the attendance, there couldn't have been much more than 10,000 people there and it was probably one of the worst atmosphere for Bucks game I've been to.

Not much positive besides a decent start to the game. Salmons has been garbage to start, hoping he is just not healthy. Alot of guys that are disappointing and Skiles has not found a rotation combo that has worked.

[Newz]

Also, thus far that whole "Maggette can play D, he did it with the Clippers" hasn't been true. He has been awful on the defensive end thus far.

Maggette and Gooden both need to at least get close to average on the defensive end if we want to get to that 50 win mark... And if they stay as bad as they have started, then we should start to worry about just making the playoffs.

I think Skiles will work some magic and get us in the mid-40's again.

[trwi7]

I don't think people said Maggette could play D. They said his offensive contributions would outweigh his defense.

[PackerBacker89]

If you look at my post I said Salmons has sucked.

What part of my analys was incorrect?

When was the last time Maggette or Gooden took teams to the next level? When was the last time Salmons signed an extension then took his game to the next level? When was the last time guys like Dooling, Brockman and Boykins were key pieces that could be counted on?

It's amazing that someone needs to point this out, but Salmons missed the entire preseason. He has to play himself back into shape. Let's just forget that fact though.

[LUKE23]

I think people said he played average D with the Clippers, not great D, and that is accurate. Either way, way too early to say he's not going to defend for us. With his athleticism and Skiles coaching, I'm not very worried about him defensively. He's defended adequately before. Gooden has never defender adequately.

[Newz]

I think people said he played average D with the Clippers, not great D, and that is accurate. Either way, way too early to say he's not going to defend for us. With his athleticism and Skiles coaching, I'm not very worried about him defensively. He's defended adequately before. Gooden has never defender adequately.

Right... I never said anyone said he played great D, did I? Or did I mistype something? I'm pretty sure I didn't. People said he could be average... So far he has been awful.

I also never said he couldn't improve. I just said that he's been awful so far, which is true.

Like I said, I think Skiles is going to get those guys to improve. Hopefully it is enough where we can turn back into a top 5-7 defensive team.

[fabio]

Also, thus far that whole "Maggette can play D, he did it with the Clippers" hasn't been true. He has been awful on the defensive end thus far.

Maggette and Gooden both need to at least get close to average on the defensive end if we want to get to that 50 win mark... And if they stay as bad as they have started, then we should start to worry about just making the playoffs.

I think Skiles will work some magic and get us in the mid-40's again.

I said it many times, I'm shocked that people thinks he played D with Clippers, whether it was bad, good or average. I can't even remember a single minute of Maggette playing D in his entire life, and when I mentioned that, many people said he was playing "out of position" with Clippers, which was true, but still the objective fact is he never, ever, EVER played D, and I don't think he has any plans to start in the short future. Or any future as we're at it.

This being said, I don't think Maggette is a big issue regarding these losses. Skiles isn't a moron and he knew what he'd get with Maggette and what he wouldn't get, it's not like Maggette's nonexistent D is a surprise for anyone that follows the NBA . And so far, he's doing what he was brought for, so no complains at all.

Now that I had some time to evaluate yesterday's game, I think the real issues have been already mentioned by several posters: Salmons, chemistry issues, Bogut not at 100% and I will add my usual mantra: other than LRMAM, Delfino and Bogut, there's no D at all. And yes, I include he-that-should-never-be-criticized as well

[Village Idiot]

Jennings played like a slightly slower version of TJ Ford. No confidence in his shot, he motored around. His passing was worse than Ford's. Besides errant passes, he was throwing Farve-like bullets that no one would be expected to handle.

I was surprised at how overly disciplined Jennings was. The key to beating the Blazers is quickness and movement. Jennings has no problem getting an opening on the screen at the top of the key. The problem is that instead of going full bore he waited for the offense to set. (either the screen is coming too early or everyone else is late) I didn't notice any double screens or complexity or quickness to off the ball movement. The last three quarters it looked like the Blazers players knew your playbook better than the Bucks did. They don't usually rotate so well on D.

You guys got the Blazers on the wrong night. Had we beat the Bulls you would have undoubtedly beaten an exhausted team. Nate got a lot of effort out of his players. More than he usually does.

[InsideOut]

If you look at my post I said Salmons has sucked.

What part of my analys was incorrect?

When was the last time Maggette or Gooden took teams to the next level? When was the last time Salmons signed an extension then took his game to the next level? When was the last time guys like Dooling, Brockman and Boykins were key pieces that could be counted on?

It's amazing that someone needs to point this out, but Salmons missed the entire preseason. He has to play himself back into shape. Let's just forget that fact though.

Who forgot the part about Salmons being out during the preseason? It's only been mentioned a bunch of times in this thread and I myself address this point a few pages back when I said I didn't know if his poor play has to do with his injury or history of disappearing after signing a new contract. If you going to be a putz with the sarcastic comments at least read my all my posts in the thread before you start with the punk-a$$ comments.