PG Portland - Backcourt Domination

[DingleJerry]

What was evident to me is they need another quick twitch G of some kind. They essentially only have Bledsoe who could fall in that category whereas most teams have multiple these days. The DDV, Brog, Pat, Snell guys are all doing generally fine in the wing type role. But another quicker person could be needed. Even just your mediocre backup types like Nelson, Collison, etc.

[M-C-G]

Too much gloom and doom. It is going to be very hard to beat a team that has two players hitting the types of shots they were hitting last night while our guys are missing lay ups left and right.

The Blazers were almost a 50 win team in the West and played lights out at their home court. It happens guys.

[M-C-G]

What was evident to me is they need another quick twitch G of some kind. They essentially only have Bledsoe who could fall in that category whereas most teams have multiple these days. The DDV, Brog, Pat, Snell guys are all doing generally fine in the wing type role. But another quicker person could be needed. Even just your mediocre backup types like Nelson, Collison, etc.

I don't know if Pat Bev is a quick twitch guy, but I know he is a tough ass defender when I have seen him play. I personally think he could be more valuable to the team next season than Bledsoe (this is not a dis on bledsoe).

I love to see DDV effort out there, but man, guys are running lots of action to get the guys he is guarding open. One thing that seems to have worked well in the past against McCollum and Lillard was putting more length on them and playing off a bit, but still when both those guys are hitting a lot of the shots they were hitting, they aren't losing many games.

[steger_3434]

Lillard didn’t even kill us last night. He was 5-15. It was obviously McCollum and turner


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[pack15412]

How is a team coached by Terry Stotts that good? Haha.

Mo Williams' ball distribution skills and Mike Redd's ligaments consisting of uncooked spaghetti wonder the same thing.

[HKPackFan]

Giannis is great. Probably the best Buck since Kareem. But his hesitation when he gets the ball open at the top of the key hamstrings this offense at times. Teams know he's afraid to shoot it, so they let him sit up there and close the gaps created by the ball movement and reset. Sometimes this means that Giannis is able to drive and dunk with his incredible natural gifts. Othertimes, it leads to good position for drawing offensive fouls or turnovers because defenders have position on our guys.

He has to get it in his mind that he's either going to release on an open 3 or look to move it immediately, because when he hesitates for even a second, it leads to some really ugly basketball.

Ya that hesitation was old habit. Was annoying seeing it creep up all game. We saw it all last season, we were promised it was gone.

Old Kidd habits die hard.

THIS is the kind of fun stuff I was alluding to early on in the season. One of the hottest starts in franchise history? "Bud for President!!!" A semi-dud of a game? "Tough to shake those old Kidd-habits." But this is why I keep coming back here. Pure entertainment.

We just need a few years to fix the mess left from Larry err Kidd.

[Besiktas]

Woke up 07.30 and checked box score than i saw 10+ deficit, some tear, disappoint, cry and not set alarm back to sleep.

After woke up again 09.00 and went to work
My boss said to me where have you been?
I said "our backcourts responsible for that i hope they wont pay a lot money for brog and not keep bledsoe, btw do you remember snell? He is been great again. Good season start as rotation guy"

[Jimmmycrackcorn]

Lillard didn’t even kill us last night. He was 5-15. It was obviously McCollum and turner


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yup

McCollum just went off

you tip your hat and move on

[FrieAaron]

The goalposts moved very quickly after that hot start, but this road trip is one that any team could very easily go 0-4 on. Of course that result would suck, but we're kind of ripping off the band-aid early on in the season. By December 21st we'll be done for the season with Golden State, Denver and Portland and will have already played Boston, Toronto and Indiana twice. The remaining 50 games after that we'll have a good chance to build a lot of separation.

[skones]

Lillard didn’t even kill us last night. He was 5-15. It was obviously McCollum and turner


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Which is a give and take. If you're limiting Lillard to the degree we did last night, it stands to reason that, unless you have all nba caliber defenders all over the floor, McCollum has a little more freedom. (ie. stretches where he's matched up against a rookie.)

[paulpressey25]

What was evident to me is they need another quick twitch G of some kind. They essentially only have Bledsoe who could fall in that category whereas most teams have multiple these days. The DDV, Brog, Pat, Snell guys are all doing generally fine in the wing type role. But another quicker person could be needed. Even just your mediocre backup types like Nelson, Collison, etc.

Kidd refused to bring in small guards and it has killed us. Even a journeyman like Isaiah Canaan would help.

Brogdon is so far proving out to be a compelling and frustrating player at the same time.

[skones]

What was evident to me is they need another quick twitch G of some kind. They essentially only have Bledsoe who could fall in that category whereas most teams have multiple these days. The DDV, Brog, Pat, Snell guys are all doing generally fine in the wing type role. But another quicker person could be needed. Even just your mediocre backup types like Nelson, Collison, etc.

Kidd refused to bring in small guards and it has killed us. Even a journeyman like Isaiah Canaan would help.

Brogdon is so far proving out to be a compelling and frustrating player at the same time.

Brogdon should have been traded this past offseason as I pushed at times. He's not going to be worth his second deal. He's got too many limitations to his game that limit his upside to a quality bench piece.

[Jimmmycrackcorn]

Brogdon was just awful last night. He hesitated shooting three's when open, and instead chose to dribble the air out of the ball in the lane.

Why he's hesitating from three is beyond me...but that just made his bad night awful.

If he's gonna hesitate, i'd rather Snell start.

[old skool]

Complaining about the officiating is so lame. A loser trap.

Complaining about Jason Kidd is beyond lame. Budenholzer is a big upgrade. We should revel in that.

Portland out played the Bucks in almost every phase of the game. They were better on the boards. They played better defense. They had more steals. More blocks. They moved the ball better and created open shots. They led most of the game. It was not close. The Bucks shot good enough to win. 16 of 42 (38%) from the arc is about typical. The problem was that they were outplayed in almost every other area.

Portland did a great job of getting open. They created a ton of open shots from the arc. They created open mid range shots at will. The Bucks created some open 3 pointers, but almost all of their mid range shots and drives to the basket were contested.

It seems to me that the Bucks do not as yet have a team identity. In the first 2 or 3 quarters, they freely shoot the 3-point ball. That changes at crunch time, when the free wheeling 3 point chucking Bucks become hesitant. The Bucks are great at shooting threes with abandon when the game is not on the line. They display a lack of confidence when possessions matter and look like they are confused. For all of the love being showered on the new coaching staff, the Bucks struggle more often than not at the end of the few close games they have played. An identity needs to be developed. Their identity can't be that they build up an insurmountable lead early so they don't face pressure at the end.

Bledsoe has limitations, but he is a huge upgrade over the point guards the Bucks had before acquiring him. There are not many point guards who will win the head to head match up every game. It would be an easy call to trade him for an upgrade like Walker. Trading him just to get him off the roster would be a mistake. Same with Brogdon.

I think that much of the angst in this thread comes from frustration with the reality that the Bucks might not be an elite dominant team this season. They might just be a very good team with obvious weaknesses. Too early to tell.

[JimmyTheKid]

What was evident to me is they need another quick twitch G of some kind. They essentially only have Bledsoe who could fall in that category whereas most teams have multiple these days. The DDV, Brog, Pat, Snell guys are all doing generally fine in the wing type role. But another quicker person could be needed. Even just your mediocre backup types like Nelson, Collison, etc.

Kidd refused to bring in small guards and it has killed us. Even a journeyman like Isaiah Canaan would help.

Brogdon is so far proving out to be a compelling and frustrating player at the same time.

It'll take awhile for Horst to be able to break old habits. Look for us to sign a smaller, quicker guard in 2023.

[JimmyTheKid]

Complaining about the officiating is so lame. A loser trap.

Complaining about Jason Kidd is beyond lame. Budenholzer is a big upgrade. We should revel in that.

Portland out played the Bucks in almost every phase of the game. They were better on the boards. They played better defense. They had more steals. More blocks. They moved the ball better and created open shots. They led most of the game. It was not close. The Bucks shot good enough to win. 16 of 42 (38%) from the arc is about typical. The problem was that they were outplayed in almost every other area.

Portland did a great job of getting open. They created a ton of open shots from the arc. They created open mid range shots at will. The Bucks created some open 3 pointers, but almost all of their mid range shots and drives to the basket were contested.

It seems to me that the Bucks do not as yet have a team identity. In the first 2 or 3 quarters, they freely shoot the 3-point ball. That changes at crunch time, when the free wheeling 3 point chucking Bucks become hesitant. The Bucks are great at shooting threes with abandon when the game is not on the line. They display a lack of confidence when possessions matter and look like they are confused. For all of the love being showered on the new coaching staff, the Bucks struggle more often than not at the end of the few close games they have played. An identity needs to be developed. Their identity can't be that they build up an insurmountable lead early so they don't face pressure at the end.

Bledsoe has limitations, but he is a huge upgrade over the point guards the Bucks had before acquiring him. There are not many point guards who will win the head to head match up every game. It would be an easy call to trade him for an upgrade like Walker. Trading him just to get him off the roster would be a mistake. Same with Brogdon.

I think that much of the angst in this thread comes from frustration with the reality that the Bucks might not be an elite dominant team this season. They might just be a very good team with obvious weaknesses. Too early to tell.

8-2 with 7 blowout wins and no bad losses in our first 10 games. Couldn't ask for a better start.

[DingleJerry]

What was evident to me is they need another quick twitch G of some kind. They essentially only have Bledsoe who could fall in that category whereas most teams have multiple these days. The DDV, Brog, Pat, Snell guys are all doing generally fine in the wing type role. But another quicker person could be needed. Even just your mediocre backup types like Nelson, Collison, etc.

Kidd refused to bring in small guards and it has killed us. Even a journeyman like Isaiah Canaan would help.

Brogdon is so far proving out to be a compelling and frustrating player at the same time.

Brogdon should have been traded this past offseason as I pushed at times. He's not going to be worth his second deal. He's got too many limitations to his game that limit his upside to a quality bench piece.

Just ran through teams quickly to see what blah backups are out there that could be easily attainable. Trey Burke, Augustin, Devin Harris, Tyus Jones, Cam Payne (IDK if he's done anything lately, thinking back to the hype a few years back). Beverley makes sense too but hasn't rebounded well from that injury so far as far as I can tell. For better options, when looking at the Clips, Lou Will would be a good fit too and on a cost controlled contract. Really the one that makes most sense is Rozier from Boston but that's just not gonna happen (well, I guess the Cavs/Celts trade happened so who knows).

[M-C-G]

Lillard didn’t even kill us last night. He was 5-15. It was obviously McCollum and turner


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I am actually surprised by that, but yeah, Evan Turner learning how to shoot was a problem.

[FrieAaron]

8-2 with 7 blowout wins and no bad losses in our first 10 games. Couldn't ask for a better start.

With the third highest strength of schedule in the league (I imagine that jumps to 1st highest after Sunday).

[imithanos]

Lots to comment.

We didn't do anything wrong tonight. Portland just made a ton of terrible shots. It happens sometimes.

Read on Twitter

19 of 24 from mid-range. Still not worried at all. How many teams are gonna shoot 80% from mid-range?

If we allow elbow jumpers like Portland got easily and wide open I’d assume a lot

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You could lock some players in an empty gym and they wouldn't hit 80% of their off-the-dribble mid-range shots. McCollum hitting wide open looks is one thing. Evan Turner and Al-Farouq Aminu chucking up/converting off-balance shots and contested floaters is another...

I'm sure this Bucks team will win 50+ games.
They will probably win the 1st round of PO and possibly the 2nd if we get to play Philly (if they won't trade for shooters).

But against teams with good backcourt players? Scratch that. Teams with elite guards or decent shooters? The odds are against us. Irving, Kemba, Lowry, CJ, Curry etc will make 9-10 out of 10 shots from midrange. Teams that will go deep in the PO have more than one of these.
Next time against Toronto Ibaka may shoot worse, but Lowry or Kawhi can score easily and effortless 30 points. Danny Green will surely have 1-2 good shooting games in the PO. Lol even a random dude like Powell 2 years ago can have 1-2 good shooting games.
Same goes with Boston. I don't even want to mention GSW.

The most frustrating thing with this def. scheme is that is not up to you to dictate the outcome, it's been left to the opponent. They make the pull up 3s or long midrange 2s, they win the game. Not many teams can do it, but the top 10 of the league can. So yeah, I dont worry about the 50+ wins in RS, I worry about the PO.

Hopefully we evolve by the end of the RS, but the first results are not encouraging on this area. If we'll not see any switching, we will pray in the PO for the opponents to miss the open jumpers. And that will be all on Bud, cause if Prunty figured it out after 2 games vs Boston, I surely don't expect a Kidd stubbornness from him too.

last year when we went to Portland brogdon was out and Bledsoe went off for 25 on 10-17. just a game. move on

As far as the Bledsoe topic goes, I'm positively surprised how well he's playing this season. But he is a PG with a ceiling and with some obvious weaknesses.

If the ownership is fine with paying the luxury tax next season (at least until we clear the Henson and Delly contracts from our salary), I'm all in for keeping him in a modest and not multiyear contact. Something like 3/50 would be a decent offer(I'm not sure his agent would be fine though). Anyway whatever the team wants to pay.

But...
I'm not convinced our owners like this idea. So I'd rather prioritize keeping Brolo and in the dilemma Brogdon or Bledsoe I'd go with the former. The main reason would be that Brogdon will be RFA and unless the Bucks yet again surprise us and offer him on July 1st, 00:01 AM a big contract, they can control the offer and maybe resign him relatively cheaply (~10m). The good thing is I don't see it happening on the first days, because of Midds.
Another reason I don't mind trading Bledsoe (actually I'd prefer we'd trade him) is not only for the above reason, but also cause he still has some value and if the owners don't plan to pay the luxury tax, I'd rather not lose him for nothing in the next summer like Jabari. I'm not sure that Bud is a fan of this idea though.


PS. I'm trying to see in the future and share some concerns. It is not a complain to Bud or Bledsoe. I enjoy our basketball and we surely don't need to panic. Only adjustments are needed.