OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers)

[ReasonablySober]

Watch on YouTube

I really want Brightburn to be good but my expectations are low.

[HaroldinGMinor]

I really appreciate how much money and time this thread saves me. I watched every episode of Lost until missing the start of the final season. Was going to wait and buy the dvd set but after reading the thread, passed on the purchase.

Ditched HBO about 10+ years ago. This thread reaffirms my satisfaction with that decision.

You've missed a lot of good TV.

[MiltownHawkeye]

If D&D decided to listen to the people who called out Beyond the Wall for what it was (a jump the shark moment) and not the people blindly defending it then maybe Season 8 turns out differently.

Nah, this relatively new idea that writers and producers should "listen" to the fans is terrible. You can like or hate the end product, but let the actual film creators have creative control and freedom without these dumb, rabid social media campaigns demanding they change stuff. There's a difference between actual fan-service (a complaint that I felt was way overblown) and simply disagreeing with the direction they went with certain characters.

You're misunderstanding my position. It's not "D&D should have listened to the fans!" It's that they DID listen to the fans, and chose to listen to the ones who are more enthralled by explosions and dragons and Tormund's dick jokes than the intricate political maneuvering and slow-burn style of the earlier seasons.

I 100% agree that writers should follow their own vision and not let fans write the plot, but D&D gave up on that when they decided to include:

Spoiler:

Meta jokes about Gendry rowing

Ed Sheeran cameo

Lingering close-up of Olly's corpse

Arya becoming the most invincible assassin in all of Westeros that apparently has no faults

Sansa becoming the top political schemer in all of Westeros and also having no faults

Cleganebowl long past the point it made narrative sense

Lyanna Mormont being a character at all

Arya/Gendry sex scene

Jaime/Brienne sex scene

Reducing Littlefinger to a creepy weirdo and having Arya murder him

Reducing Varys to dick joke fodder

Somehow having all of the fan-favorite warriors like Hound/Jon/Tormund/Jorah being willing and able to go north of the Wall on a pointless mission and killing none of them off

Somehow having everyone survive the Inconvenient Evening except Jorah (who gets heroic death fighting for Dany) and Theon (who gets heroic death fighting for a Stark) because hey, we can't NOT have them engage in drinking games and sex scenes later

Listening to fans is generally a bad idea, so what does it say about their writing in this case that listening to diehard fans would have actually resulted in a much better ending? I never would have dreamed about saying that in s1-4 (and even gave them a pass for season 5) but here we are now.

[hege53190]

I really appreciate how much money and time this thread saves me. I watched every episode of Lost until missing the start of the final season. Was going to wait and buy the dvd set but after reading the thread, passed on the purchase.

Ditched HBO about 10+ years ago. This thread reaffirms my satisfaction with that decision.

You've missed a lot of good TV.

Yeah. I have said it often but A Game Of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, and A Storm of Swords are the best fantasy novels I have ever read.

The adaptation to the small screen was executed perfectly and I would rate the first 4 seasons as some of my favorite television of all time. Just because both the book series and the TV show fall off the rails and in the TV shows case jump a shark doesn’t diminish the excellence and entertainment of the earlier work.


Huge spoiler if you haven’t seen the show or read the books
Edit-

Spoiler:

reading the Red Wedding for the first time might have been the most shocked/shook I have ever been reading a book or watching a movie/ TV show in my life. I couldn’t comprehend anything that just happened. Not because it wasn’t clear but because that stuff just doesn’t happen to the good guys.

[hege53190]

GOT

My nits to pick on the last episode

Spoiler:

Am I supposed to be happy that 3 people that did absolutely nothing the last 3 seasons except make blunder after blunder came out the best. Did everyone conveniently forget that Danny and her armies/dragons are the only reason they are still alive? You can’t try to change her. Or rule well with her. You have to kill her.

Sansa is supposedly some kind of political savant but the only things I have seen her do is fail to tell anybody that “hey, I have more armies coming hold on a minute”. Screw that we need dramatic effect. I don’t know what you would call what that feud was with Arya besides pointless. Get into squabbles with someone literally saving the world, and after everyone does everything for her throwing them all under the bus and demanding the north be free but only after you send Jon to the Wall so she can rule the North.

Btw- the North is just allowed their freedom but the Iron Islands and Dorne don’t even want to put in a request? Like WTF. The Iron Islands had a rebellion about 10 years earlier for their freedom. Dorne held out forever from joining the 7 kingdoms. But the North asks and they are fine with it and more surprisingly don’t want their own.

Bran a great book character does nothing positive the last 3 seasons. Supposedly he has the power to warg into animals and people but uses neither power to do anything useful in any battle. Just says he is no lord. Only the three eyed raven for the large majority of the last two seasons. Drives a young boy insane gets everyone killed in his party but somehow he wants to be king. Oh yeah but everyone else is still going to do all the work. He doesn’t need to sit in on small council meetings. So not only is he a turd of a helper but he is a figurehead King.

Tyrion didn’t make one good decision for nearly 3 seasons. But yet everyone still listens to him? He betrays everyone and somehow ends up Hand of the King at the end.

Bronn is master of coin? Seriously what qualifications does he have in finance. How is it smart to put that guy in charge of the realms money? How is this even a somewhat decent idea by the new king and hand?

And all three of these people get their station and lot thanks in large part to Dany and Jon who they plot to kill and throw under the bus.

[MiltownHawkeye]

Spoiler:

Bronn is master of coin? Seriously what qualifications does he have in finance. How is it smart to put that guy in charge of the realms money? How is this even a somewhat decent idea by the new king and hand?

Spoiler:

Plus, he became lord of the Riverlands by literally holding Jaime and Tyrion at gunpoint. Not only did they not resent him for doing that or try to have him killes/jailed, but apparently Tyrion (and by extension Bran) trusts him in general.

[stellation]

GoT finale

Spoiler:

I thought it was fine.

[ReasonablySober]

Spoiler:

Bronn is master of coin? Seriously what qualifications does he have in finance. How is it smart to put that guy in charge of the realms money? How is this even a somewhat decent idea by the new king and hand?

Spoiler:

Plus, he became lord of the Riverlands by literally holding Jaime and Tyrion at gunpoint. Not only did they not resent him for doing that or try to have him killes/jailed, but apparently Tyrion (and by extension Bran) trusts him in general.

Spoiler:

Do you really think Tyrion wanted Bronn troubles in his life? Imagine being the one to tell him you're going back on a deal.

[Chuck Diesel]

Not enough Robin Arryn imo

[emunney]

Not enough Robin Arryn imo

Poor kid's gotta be wasting away.

[hege53190]

Spoiler:

Bronn is master of coin? Seriously what qualifications does he have in finance. How is it smart to put that guy in charge of the realms money? How is this even a somewhat decent idea by the new king and hand?

Spoiler:

Plus, he became lord of the Riverlands by literally holding Jaime and Tyrion at gunpoint. Not only did they not resent him for doing that or try to have him killes/jailed, but apparently Tyrion (and by extension Bran) trusts him in general.

Spoiler:

Do you really think Tyrion wanted Bronn troubles in his life? Imagine being the one to tell him you're going back on a deal.

Spoiler:

That is why you kill him. Seriously. They gave a homicidal idiot the richest lands in the kingdom because he threatened to kill them. Did Bran approve giving Bronn the richest lands in Westeros and access to all the money? I understand Tyrion is the Hand but I thought the reason they appointed Bran was to be a smart ruler. This is beyond a horrific first move.

[WeekapaugGroove]

but people were obviously gonna crucify the writers no matter how the show ended.

I don't really see what the basis is for this statement. They ended the show poorly and I don't even see how you can say they made an effort. D&D made the conscious decision to wrap things up in 13 episode when the story probably demanded 2-3 more seasons and HBO would have given it to them.

Sure there will always be people who complain that their pet theories didn't come true, but those people (book fanatics) have been there for years now. What you're seeing is people who just wanted a decently-written end to the story or hell, even just a little bit of genuine tension.

And yeah I'll play the "casual fans helped ruin the show" card all day. Season 7 was a complete and utter disaster from a storytelling standpoint, but the visual effects/production value (which has remained top-notch as you pointed out) gave D&D a buffer for criticism for some reason. If D&D decided to listen to the people who called out Beyond the Wall for what it was (a jump the shark moment) and not the people blindly defending it then maybe Season 8 turns out differently.

You're right. While I didn't particularly like the outcome they landed on I would have been totally fine with it if they would have got there in a clever, exciting, and we'll thought out manner. But unfortunately they did not.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[Chuck Diesel]

Not enough Robin Arryn imo

Poor kid's gotta be wasting away.

Moon Door Milk is the freshest in all the realm.

[humanrefutation]

My thoughts on GOT:

Spoiler:

They clearly ran out of ideas of how to resolve the story. That last episode - up to the final 10-15 minutes - was terrible.

I didn't buy Jon killing Dany that way. It almost felt like a letdown. I expected more drama with her murder than that. Though, it would have been SUPER dope if the final scene was Drogon and Dany North of the Wall with Dany somehow becoming resurrected as the Night Queen, restarting the cycle towards the next Long Night.

I didn't buy Bran being named King. He didn't earn it with the way they told his story. Perhaps GRRM can bring it all together more effectively, though, because I'm guessing that he wanted it to end that way. But Bran knew the whole time he was going to be King? WTF? And WTF does the three-eyed raven need a Master of Whispers for?

I didn't buy Arya essentially accomplishing nothing in the episode...and is she a **** flat-earther? She doesn't know how maps work?

I didn't buy Tyrion somehow becoming the voice of reason at the end after failing over and over again for two years.

I didn't like Grey Worm's evil turn. Dude is supposed to be a lot more honorable than that.

I didn't like banishing Jon to the NW, though I did suspect he'd end up back North in the end. I just wish they would have just waited 20 minutes for the Unsullied to leave and then have him turn around and come back.

They just didn't stick the landing. Every one of those plot points could have worked if the story approached them more deliberately than they did. Instead, they just wrote plot points and depicted them on screen. No character development. That's how Bran becoming King comes off as absurd instead of a moment of triumph.

By the way, if I ever become King, you better believe I'm going to have a better name than Bran the Broken. GTFO with that ****.

This show wasn't Dexter-bad in terms of a final couple seasons, but they've been disappointing enough that I'd never ever trust Benioff and Weiss to take on any other projects and depict them in a fulfilling way.

[emunney]

My suspicion is that the Big Conclusion is exactly what Martin had planned, just hadn't figured out how to get there.

Spoiler:

Jon kills Dany. Bran becomes king in a pseudo-parliamentary process. Jon lives out his days with the Free Folk.

I think that stuff is what they were given and where they've been trying to go, with almost no map of how to get there.

[emunney]

Not enough Robin Arryn imo

Poor kid's gotta be wasting away.

Moon Door Milk is the freshest in the all the realm.

"You can really taste the plummeting!"

[WRau1]

GoT

Spoiler:

[HurricaneKid]

Shazam. Good, fun, movie.

I don't think we have ever agreed on a movie. Overly childish and grating imo.

Sent from my VS995 using RealGM mobile app

[MiltownHawkeye]

Spoiler:

Bronn is master of coin? Seriously what qualifications does he have in finance. How is it smart to put that guy in charge of the realms money? How is this even a somewhat decent idea by the new king and hand?

Spoiler:

Plus, he became lord of the Riverlands by literally holding Jaime and Tyrion at gunpoint. Not only did they not resent him for doing that or try to have him killes/jailed, but apparently Tyrion (and by extension Bran) trusts him in general.

Spoiler:

Do you really think Tyrion wanted Bronn troubles in his life? Imagine being the one to tell him you're going back on a deal.

Spoiler:

Let's pretend for a second that it wouldn't be as easy as having Bronn thrown in a Black Cell or assassinated. Doing so requires pretending that Bronn is basically invincible rather than just one guy, but he's been established as fairly cunning and one of the best swordsman in the show so sure.

You're telling me that Bran, who is basically an omniscient god, and Tyrion, who is supposed to be one of the smartest men in Westeros, can't figure this out?

And did Bronn actually get promised a position as Master of Coin? Did that happen in his conversation with Jaime and Tyrion and I just missed it?

[humanrefutation]

Spoiler:

Plus, he became lord of the Riverlands by literally holding Jaime and Tyrion at gunpoint. Not only did they not resent him for doing that or try to have him killes/jailed, but apparently Tyrion (and by extension Bran) trusts him in general.

Spoiler:

Do you really think Tyrion wanted Bronn troubles in his life? Imagine being the one to tell him you're going back on a deal.

Spoiler:

Let's pretend for a second that it wouldn't be as easy as having Bronn thrown in a Black Cell or assassinated. Doing so requires pretending that Bronn is basically invincible rather than just one guy, but he's been established as fairly cunning and one of the best swordsman in the show so sure.

You're telling me that Bran, who is basically an omniscient god, and Tyrion, who is supposed to be one of the smartest men in Westeros, can't figure this out?

And did Bronn actually get promised a position as Master of Coin? Did that happen in his conversation with Jaime and Tyrion and I just missed it?

Spoiler:

He just got promised Highgarden.

His financial qualifications really don't matter there. His friendship with Tyrion and his access to the wealth of Highgarden are all that matter. That's actually pretty realistic, IMO.