Khris Middleton Thread

[TD75]

any great player like Giannis improves the cast around him. honeslty I think middleton would be even better if it wasn't Giannis tho. a dynamic passing and shooting pg would benefit middleton even more than Giannis in that role. we talk about the gravity Giannis creates but its not like hes the only one and its not like hes the best conductor out there either

What do you mean "its not like hes the best conductor out there either"? Who is better?

i meant league wide. on our team hes the clear best initiator. I was speaking more like if Middleton was playing with a paul or a curry or even a Rubio type he would look better. our offense is initiated by Bledsoe and Giannis and if those two cant get to the paint we got nothing. since neither can really shoot that creates issues at point of attack. our offense is really really good but its a one trick pony

I don't know if he would look better. Khris seems to like dribbling the ball for 5-6 seconds to bring his defender in his preferred spots. Curry or Rubio will not facilitate that.

He is in an environment that gives him the most opportunities to take wide open 3 point shots (the Bucks lead the league in wide open 3 point shots) and this is mostly due to Giannis' gravity. He should thrive in this environment especially considering that Bud allows him to do his favorite ISO situations after last November. It's entirely up to him.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

What do you mean "its not like hes the best conductor out there either"? Who is better?

i meant league wide. on our team hes the clear best initiator. I was speaking more like if Middleton was playing with a paul or a curry or even a Rubio type he would look better. our offense is initiated by Bledsoe and Giannis and if those two cant get to the paint we got nothing. since neither can really shoot that creates issues at point of attack. our offense is really really good but its a one trick pony

I don't know if he would look better. Khris seems to like dribbling the ball for 5-6 seconds to bring his defender in his preferred spots. Curry or Rubio will not facilitate that.

He is in an environment that gives him the most opportunities to take wide open 3 point shots (the Bucks lead the league in wide open 3 point shots) and this is mostly due to Giannis' gravity. He should thrive in this environment especially considering that Bud allows him to do his favorite ISO situations after last November. It's entirely up to him.

I dont disagree with this. im just saying when the team sruggles its usually because Bledsoe and Giannis are struggling and if those too are struggling our system isn't really set up for khris to save us.

im not even sure khris has it in him to save us. just with a more traditional system I think no matter whats going on if we had a true distributing pg that khris could get his shots from his normal spots.

maybe im completely off. the initial comment was meant more offhanded. I just have thought all off season about how one dimensional we are offensively and we can say its all bud but I think a lot of it has to do with beldsoe and Giannis too. how they go we go. its been that way and you hear a lot of commentators say it im just trying to suggest maybe a reason why?

[TD75]

i meant league wide. on our team hes the clear best initiator. I was speaking more like if Middleton was playing with a paul or a curry or even a Rubio type he would look better. our offense is initiated by Bledsoe and Giannis and if those two cant get to the paint we got nothing. since neither can really shoot that creates issues at point of attack. our offense is really really good but its a one trick pony

I don't know if he would look better. Khris seems to like dribbling the ball for 5-6 seconds to bring his defender in his preferred spots. Curry or Rubio will not facilitate that.

He is in an environment that gives him the most opportunities to take wide open 3 point shots (the Bucks lead the league in wide open 3 point shots) and this is mostly due to Giannis' gravity. He should thrive in this environment especially considering that Bud allows him to do his favorite ISO situations after last November. It's entirely up to him.

I dont disagree with this. im just saying when the team sruggles its usually because Bledsoe and Giannis are struggling and if those too are struggling our system isn't really set up for khris to save us.

im not even sure khris has it in him to save us. just with a more traditional system I think no matter whats going on if we had a true distributing pg that khris could get his shots from his normal spots.

maybe im completely off. the initial comment was meant more offhanded. I just have thought all off season about how one dimensional we are offensively and we can say its all bud but I think a lot of it has to do with beldsoe and Giannis too. how they go we go. its been that way and you hear a lot of commentators say it im just trying to suggest maybe a reason why?

Yes, I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of the concerns you express. I have been critical with Khris a lot (and to be honest I am tired of recycling a lot of the points I have raised about Khris; at this point it is what it is), but if you ask me, I think the system issues under Bud are more concerning to me. I think Bud can do a lot better with this roster especially in terms of diverse strategies and micromanagement in game situations to help individuals like Khris, Giannis and Bledsoe/Lopez and the team as a whole (even if I believe the roster has some serious problems due to personnel).

[Jez2983]

This is basically a torn quad. If that makes more sense to people than 'thigh contusion'.

So yeah the timeframe is right.

Wha???

How are those two injuries at all synonymous? A bruise vs. a tear?

If you get hit hard enough, the muscle can rupture.

This is correct. Particularly the part about the rapture.

don't get hung up on the terminology, rupture just means some of it has torn, not that his whole quad has torn in half. I was just trying to help people understand why a 'bruise' meant he'd be missing weeks.

[Jez2983]

This is basically a torn quad. If that makes more sense to people than 'thigh contusion'.

So yeah the timeframe is right.

Your characterization sounds a lot worse. Especially for a guy who had his quad torn already.

As I said it's just to help understanding of the recovery timeframe. The terminology sounds worse, but it isn't. As said, it's a different muscle to his previous issue, and frankly you can't stop a direct blow injury. It's just bad luck.

Hell this reminds me of all the times we had Bogut discussions. He was bloody unlucky when here, kept getting random unrelated injuries. GS got to deal with all the injuries associated with previous issues. Hopefully we aren't going to do that again...

[Pachinko_]

A bruise is something that Ersan has a million of on his chest from offensive fouls.
A contusion is a partial rapture.
Got it.

[ANTETOKOUNBROS]

Good, while Khris is out, Brogdon will keep making the Bucks FO continue to look like morons. Still can’t believe the contract we gave him.

[freewhitemoon]

start DJ and hope he can make some 3s

So we have guys like DDV, Sterling, Wes, Hill, Korver and the answer is to start DJ, a 5/4 mix? Is there anything DJ can't do? Are we just holding him down so we can sign him to a cheap contract instead of the max he'd get if he just got a few minutes a game.

Weak part of the schedule, those guys are all midgets. Might as well give DJ some burn and see if he's improved any. Dosen't matter if he's a 5/4 mix he can move his feet on the perimeter and would probably be a better match up defensively on forwards.

[TroyD92]

start DJ and hope he can make some 3s

So we have guys like DDV, Sterling, Wes, Hill, Korver and the answer is to start DJ, a 5/4 mix? Is there anything DJ can't do? Are we just holding him down so we can sign him to a cheap contract instead of the max he'd get if he just got a few minutes a game.

Weak part of the schedule, those guys are all midgets. Might as well give DJ some burn and see if he's improved any. Dosen't matter if he's a 5/4 mix he can move his feet on the perimeter and would probably be a better match up defensively on forwards.

Midgets? lmao they area all 6'5 +

[freewhitemoon]

So we have guys like DDV, Sterling, Wes, Hill, Korver and the answer is to start DJ, a 5/4 mix? Is there anything DJ can't do? Are we just holding him down so we can sign him to a cheap contract instead of the max he'd get if he just got a few minutes a game.

Weak part of the schedule, those guys are all midgets. Might as well give DJ some burn and see if he's improved any. Dosen't matter if he's a 5/4 mix he can move his feet on the perimeter and would probably be a better match up defensively on forwards.

Midgets? lmao they area all 6'5 +

Only one taller than 6'5 is Korver. Sterling plays a bit bigger than his size but they'd all be undersized at the 3. Think we gotta see what other options we have defending big wings since we'll probably have to beat Boston, Philly, Clippers to win the title

[brettski]

Shout out to brewhoop twitter for calling out Daviddunn

[ackypoo]

lotta people sucking on each others middleton hate boners itt. which is fine, if thats what youre into.

[Fotis St]

A few guys from the bench can launch a brick at an efficiency that is somewhat close to Khris's to make the difference barely noticeable. Middleton's unique advantage is on defense funny enough, he's the only guy who is tall enough and mobile enough to guard 3s and taller guards and help pack the paint a bit at the same time. Basically he's our designated Kawhi defender. We don't have anyone else who can do that, Stirling/Pat/DDV/Hill/Wes are too small. That's a hole we've had in our roster for years but Khris played so many minutes we never noticed.

Unless you want to give Giannis that assignment on D but we probably don't want to have him running around too much. Maybe Connaughton is the closest thing (defensively).

Well its too early to talk about 2020 Finals, but the only Bucks player who can give Kawhi some trouble is … Thanasis !!!

[Shaffty]

If we are still beating good teams and carrying a +8-10 point differential with Khris out, and i think that's definitely possible, it makes me feel fortunate that we signed khris instead of letting him walk.

Respectfully, I'd feel the opposite. i.e. he's replaceable, and it likely would impact his trade value. i.e. other teams thinking that Giannis is the magic beans for all of these guys (Midds, Bledsoe, Lopez, etc.)

Middleton hit the lottery by being Giannis running mate for the last 6 years. Mids plays a perfect complementary role to Giannis, but, not one that couldn't be filled by a number of other guys. Put Bojan next to Giannis last few year and he probably gets a $150M contract from Bucks this past summer.

LOL No way bojan can carry the ball handling load, or the defensive responsibility khris has these past 6 years

We’ll be fine.

I agree. Middleton really doesn't fit the offense we are trying to run with Giannis.. So his skillset is somewhat wasted. In terms of a guy who can catch and shoot the 3 and play good defense, Sterling should be able to get the job done. Khris really isn't a catch and shoot guy, he's a guy who needs to build his own rhythm.

Khris has the 2nd most catch and shoot attempts on the team, and basically tied for the 4th best efficiency on them

Khris 3.8 attempts a game 64.1 EFG%
Brook 5.1 attempts a game 41.5 EFG%
Korver 3.6 attempts a game 73.3 EFG%
Wes 3.3 Attempts a Game 54.5 EFG%
Pat 3.0 Attempts a Game 37.5 EFG%

In fact for players attempting over 3.5 Catch and Shoot 3s a game Khris is tied for 15th best EFG%

I am very happy he is out. He's really just kind of the worst.

Maybe we can trade him for Derozan? The spurs aren't going anywhere

You guys legit suck so much. Stop being a fan

[fan230]

A few guys from the bench can launch a brick at an efficiency that is somewhat close to Khris's to make the difference barely noticeable. Middleton's unique advantage is on defense funny enough, he's the only guy who is tall enough and mobile enough to guard 3s and taller guards and help pack the paint a bit at the same time. Basically he's our designated Kawhi defender. We don't have anyone else who can do that, Stirling/Pat/DDV/Hill/Wes are too small. That's a hole we've had in our roster for years but Khris played so many minutes we never noticed.

Unless you want to give Giannis that assignment on D but we probably don't want to have him running around too much. Maybe Connaughton is the closest thing (defensively).

Well its too early to talk about 2020 Finals, but the only Bucks player who can give Kawhi some trouble is … Thanasis !!!

I think now is the right time in our schedule to give Thanasis some opportunities to play.

[soxperry]

Spoiler:

Respectfully, I'd feel the opposite. i.e. he's replaceable, and it likely would impact his trade value. i.e. other teams thinking that Giannis is the magic beans for all of these guys (Midds, Bledsoe, Lopez, etc.)

Middleton hit the lottery by being Giannis running mate for the last 6 years. Mids plays a perfect complementary role to Giannis, but, not one that couldn't be filled by a number of other guys. Put Bojan next to Giannis last few year and he probably gets a $150M contract from Bucks this past summer.

LOL No way bojan can carry the ball handling load, or the defensive responsibility khris has these past 6 years

We’ll be fine.

I agree. Middleton really doesn't fit the offense we are trying to run with Giannis.. So his skillset is somewhat wasted. In terms of a guy who can catch and shoot the 3 and play good defense, Sterling should be able to get the job done. Khris really isn't a catch and shoot guy, he's a guy who needs to build his own rhythm.

Khris has the 2nd most catch and shoot attempts on the team, and basically tied for the 4th best efficiency on them

Khris 3.8 attempts a game 64.1 EFG%
Brook 5.1 attempts a game 41.5 EFG%
Korver 3.6 attempts a game 73.3 EFG%
Wes 3.3 Attempts a Game 54.5 EFG%
Pat 3.0 Attempts a Game 37.5 EFG%

In fact for players attempting over 3.5 Catch and Shoot 3s a game Khris is tied for 15th best EFG%

I am very happy he is out. He's really just kind of the worst.

Maybe we can trade him for Derozan? The spurs aren't going anywhere

You guys legit suck so much. Stop being a fan

Relax dude, we are simply having a conversation.

Khris's 3 point numbers in general are up over this first ten games, but it's ten games. Why dont you see how he did on catch and shoot over 70+ games last year and get back to me.

Also, the fact that a guy who is the highest paid on the team and is supposed to be our second best shooter is fourth in the situations that our offense is designed to generate isnt great.

We can be disappointed in Middleton, you can like him. Its fine

[JimmyTheKid]

I think we need Middleton to get to the finals, but I don't think we will miss him all that much for a stretch of regular season games. Middleton brings zero intangibles to the table like killer instinct and leadership, so he's a guy where you really just miss his on court production. That can be replaced by committee. At least for a stretch.

It'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out thats for sure. Will the intangibles from Khris' replacements outweigh that run-stopping, mid range jumper, and automatic 20 points per game? Thats basically the case I've been making for the last couple years. Now, of course, it won't be apples to apples, because in my scenario we would have either traded or let Middleton walk, retained Brogdon, and spent money elsewhere to improve the team. But this will still be a pretty decent sample size gauge of Middleton's value to to the team.

I really wish this sort of minor, month long injury could have happened last year or the year before. Ya know, sometime prior to paying him a HUNDRED and SEVENTY EIGHT MILLION dollars.

[DingleJerry]

Well, in the year he did get hurt the team was bad without him and then got hot when he came back. Basically every ratingo n the team improved and the team started winning. I'm generally on the side of 'man that contract is nuts, I don' t see why he's worth double the other guys'. But in a way we did have that exact thing happen a couple years back. But of course it was pre-Bucks being actually good. I assume Kidd was still coach, but didn't double check if that was the same year he got fired.

[paulpressey25]

LOL No way bojan can carry the ball handling load, or the defensive responsibility khris has these past 6 years

Agreed. But so many of the Middleton discussions do not contain helpful perspective.

a) Bojan is not as good a player as Khris. But he's not $105 million worse, especially when you're looking at also keeping Brogdon under that scenario.

b) We aren't looking at the last six-years. During that time, Chris Paul was a lot better than SGA. We're looking at the next five years, and opportunity cost of using $178 million.

[Shaffty]

LOL No way bojan can carry the ball handling load, or the defensive responsibility khris has these past 6 years

Agreed. But so many of the Middleton discussions do not contain helpful perspective.

a) Bojan is not as good a player as Khris. But he's not $105 million worse, especially when you're looking at also keeping Brogdon under that scenario.

b) We aren't looking at the last six-years. During that time, Chris Paul was a lot better than SGA. We're looking at the next five years, and opportunity cost of using $178 million.

YOU COULD HAVE KEPT BROGDON AND KHRIS , KEEPING ONE DIDN"T PREVENT YOU FROM KEEPING THE OTHER AND IN FACT SIGNING BOJAN MEANS YOU LOSE G HILL