Trading Redd Is Not The Way

[ahagen87]

i think a trade like this would be pretty interesting for both teams

Milwaukee Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -3.5 ppg, +3.9 rpg, and -0.6 apg.
Incoming Players
Channing Frye
6-11 C from Arizona
7.1 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.3 minutes
Martell Webster
6-7 SG from Seattle Prep (HS)
11.2 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.5 apg in 29.3 minutes
Travis Outlaw
6-9 SF from Starkville (HS)
12.0 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 1.5 apg in 26.3 minutes
Raef LaFrentz
6-11 PF / C from Kansas
2.2 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.2 apg in 8.7 minutes
Outgoing Players
Charlie Villanueva
6-10 PF from Connecticut
9.6 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 20.1 minutes
Jake Voskuhl
6-11 C from Connecticut
3.0 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.9 minutes
Michael Redd
6-6 SG from Ohio State
23.4 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 3.8 apg in 38.1 minutes

Portland Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +3.5 ppg, -3.9 rpg, and +0.6 apg.
Incoming Players
Charlie Villanueva
6-10 PF from Connecticut
9.6 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 20.1 minutes
Jake Voskuhl
6-11 C from Connecticut
3.0 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.9 minutes
Michael Redd
6-6 SG from Ohio State
23.4 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 3.8 apg in 38.1 minutes
Outgoing Players
Channing Frye
6-11 C from Arizona
7.1 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.3 minutes
Martell Webster
6-7 SG from Seattle Prep (HS)
11.2 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.5 apg in 29.3 minutes
Travis Outlaw
6-9 SF from Starkville (HS)
12.0 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 1.5 apg in 26.3 minutes
Raef LaFrentz
6-11 PF / C from Kansas
2.2 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.2 apg in 8.7 minutes


leaves the bucks w. the option of trading mo and a future first for a 08 draft pick

could make the line ups for each team like

Bucks

Rose/Ivey/Bell
Webster/Pick/Bell
Outlaw/Pick/mason/simmions
Yi/Frye
Bogut/Gadz/Frye

Blazers

Jack/Serio
Roy
Redd
Aldridge/CV
Oden/Vosk

the only problem for the blazers is it take a lot of there depth away

[carmelbrownqueen]

-= original quote snipped =-

But you don't. You have that with a lot of us already. Not everyone will.

I know that.. it's just always interesting to see what comments come out of the woodwork when stuff like this comes up.

[Simulack]

But what if her sources have asked her to keep it private? Otherwise if people did tell us and did not respect what the sources wanted they would no longer be privileged to that info.

That is fine but then what reason do we have to believe someone unless they have established previously that they have some credibility? It's no way to settle disputes either since what is to prevent Adam from claiming the same thing? or claiming the scenario he mentioned before (he has a source who is providing all these other sources with false info)? It doesn't add anything to a discussion unless it can be verified/falsified in someway or unless the person have proven to be credible.

I've been posting here for like 6 years now. In the least two years or so, it seems like suddenly half of the regular posters are claiming some kind of inside information. How many have ever provided any concrete information that was later confirmed and something any knowledgeable poster couldn't have guessed? Nowhere near as many as the number who claim they have that kind of information.

I'm late to the debate here but, unless I am remembering incorrectly, according to Adamcz didn't CBQ refer to "inside" information which directly contradicated what GAD (an "established insider") has previously posted?

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

But what if her sources have asked her to keep it private? Otherwise if people did tell us and did not respect what the sources wanted they would no longer be privileged to that info.

Then she should keep it private. If people keep their information private, than nobody even knows they have it, and there's nothing to argue about.

Sharing inside news gives us something to discuss, and I don't think anybody has a problem with receiving it (although the poster needs to accept responsibility for their track record of information that they claim is legitimate). For example if I create a thread that says "My source tells me that we have offered player Y for player Z," it creates a new discussion, and eventually the major newspapers will either raise or lower my credibility.

But some posters are even trying to post news. They're trying to back up their opinions with unfalsifiable claims. "Michael Redd has more value than you say, and people I talk to around the league agree." What's the point of a statement like that other than to try and feel important? Why should we care what towel boys and hot dog vendors around the league think of our player, and why is it worth throwing into the discussion when we already have the opinions of 50 of our own educated posters to work with?

When people claim inside information is the motive to give us the "gift" of early news, or is it to feel important?

Also, if your information contradicts the information provided by somebody with an established track record (such as in this thread), don't you have a greater burden of proof?

[LUKE23]

i think a trade like this would be pretty interesting for both teams

Milwaukee Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -3.5 ppg, +3.9 rpg, and -0.6 apg.
Incoming Players
Channing Frye
6-11 C from Arizona
7.1 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.3 minutes
Martell Webster
6-7 SG from Seattle Prep (HS)
11.2 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.5 apg in 29.3 minutes
Travis Outlaw
6-9 SF from Starkville (HS)
12.0 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 1.5 apg in 26.3 minutes
Raef LaFrentz
6-11 PF / C from Kansas
2.2 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.2 apg in 8.7 minutes
Outgoing Players
Charlie Villanueva
6-10 PF from Connecticut
9.6 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 20.1 minutes
Jake Voskuhl
6-11 C from Connecticut
3.0 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.9 minutes
Michael Redd
6-6 SG from Ohio State
23.4 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 3.8 apg in 38.1 minutes

Portland Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +3.5 ppg, -3.9 rpg, and +0.6 apg.
Incoming Players
Charlie Villanueva
6-10 PF from Connecticut
9.6 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 20.1 minutes
Jake Voskuhl
6-11 C from Connecticut
3.0 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.9 minutes
Michael Redd
6-6 SG from Ohio State
23.4 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 3.8 apg in 38.1 minutes
Outgoing Players
Channing Frye
6-11 C from Arizona
7.1 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.3 minutes
Martell Webster
6-7 SG from Seattle Prep (HS)
11.2 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.5 apg in 29.3 minutes
Travis Outlaw
6-9 SF from Starkville (HS)
12.0 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 1.5 apg in 26.3 minutes
Raef LaFrentz
6-11 PF / C from Kansas
2.2 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.2 apg in 8.7 minutes


leaves the bucks w. the option of trading mo and a future first for a 08 draft pick

could make the line ups for each team like

Bucks

Rose/Ivey/Bell
Webster/Pick/Bell
Outlaw/Pick/mason/simmions
Yi/Frye
Bogut/Gadz/Frye

Blazers

Jack/Serio
Roy
Redd
Aldridge/CV
Oden/Vosk

the only problem for the blazers is it take a lot of there depth away

This is basically my idea, but adding CV and Webster. Add Portland's 2008 first and I do this, without the pick I don't think it's enough.

[ahagen87]

i dont know if they do that with the pick being that they are high on outlaw and webster has turned into a pretty good player if we could somehow get there pick i would love that but id do it without the pick because we get good young talent back that i feel would mesh with yi and bogut pretty well

[carmelbrownqueen]

CBQ - there are really two issues that you've created in this thread.

One is that you haven't established credibility here (as an insider, not as a poster in general), and we've been over that.

The other issue is that in this case you were talking completely out your ass when you said insiders had posted things on this board that back up your own claim. It is impossible for you to know that insiders posted those things unless you also remember who those insiders were. It is completely unacceptable to say "I'm right, and insiders posted the exact same information... No, I don't know who those insiders are; go look it up."

It is one thing to try and back up your claims with unverified anonymous insiders that you haven't established. But it's even worse to try and back up your claim with inside sources who's identity you can't even remember.

I'd like to know why MD locked BrewersGM's attempt to share inside information. That decision would indicate that he has some methodology for deciding who has insider sources and who doesn't. I really think it's getting to the point where we should have a stickied thread with a list of who claims to be an insider and what news they've broke. We literally have 10 or 20 posters claiming behind-the-scenes knowledge, but only 2 or 3 of them have actually provided verifiable information. If these type of claims are to play such a big role around here, people should be responsible for their track records as well.

I haven't created anything you did.. that is what YOU fail to understand. If you recall any of the posts from around the time that information came out about the Bobby Simmons/SAR situations then you might recognize that a number of very interesting things came out of it. Lots of posters presented themselves as "insiders" and a number of them were right on certain aspects of the situation, and sometimes they were not. Later a number of those things were verified by individuals you respect as credible... when they presented their understanding of the situation based on "their" sources. Am I going to go back over 2, excuse me I stand corrected, now 3 years worth of posts and copy and paste everything written that I know to have been correct by some posters who have (and some who haven't) established "credibility" as someone with inside sources just for you? HELL NO!!!!

You are the one with questions.. not me, so if you want to know that bad, go through all of those posts and look them up. I don't need too. Some were discredited right on the spot for what they posted, others were easily accepted, even though later things changed which made their post appear incorrect. Again, it's up to you to decifer.. if you want to continue with the "you're talking out the side of your ass" comments that's fine. I have nother to prove to you or anyone else. Like I said before, I'm secure in my understanding of things and have no need to "search" for things just to make you accept what I have written.

[carmelbrownqueen]

-= original quote snipped =-

But what if her sources have asked her to keep it private? Otherwise if people did tell us and did not respect what the sources wanted they would no longer be privileged to that info.

He doesn't seem to understand a concept such as that. If I go back and piece together all the details that were true at one time or another, and "prove" my point then I could end up revealing too much inadvertantly. So again, he can believe what he wants..it doesn't matter much to me.

[Simulack]

i dont know if they do that with the pick being that they are high on outlaw and webster has turned into a pretty good player if we could somehow get there pick i would love that but id do it without the pick because we get good young talent back that i feel would mesh with yi and bogut pretty well

Try it on the trade board, my hunch is it gets a "No" from Portland fans. I really don't understand why they would want Redd.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

But GAD is an established insider and you are not. And you are saying he's wrong about how this situation unfolded. You also say that insiders here at realgm back you up, but you don't remember who they are. It's just ridiculous.

Anyway, my sources are a lot higher up than your sources are, and they say you're wrong.

[bigkurty]

Can't we all just get along? I think everyone needs to


CBQ, if I start a fight with you on here, can we kiss and make up?
haha

[carmelbrownqueen]

-= original quote snipped =-



That is fine but then what reason do we have to believe someone unless they have established previously that they have some credibility? It's no way to settle disputes either since what is to prevent Adam from claiming the same thing? or claiming the scenario he mentioned before (he has a source who is providing all these other sources with false info)? It doesn't add anything to a discussion unless it can be verified/falsified in someway or unless the person have proven to be credible.

I've been posting here for like 6 years now. In the least two years or so, it seems like suddenly half of the regular posters are claiming some kind of inside information. How many have ever provided any concrete information that was later confirmed and something any knowledgeable poster couldn't have guessed? Nowhere near as many as the number who claim they have that kind of information.

I'm late to the debate here but, unless I am remembering incorrectly, according to Adamcz didn't CBQ refer to "inside" information which directly contradicated what GAD (an "established insider") has previously posted?

Then you have a choice.. again, some things that are posted can be "verified" some things can't. There is information that even GAD has posted that's been challenged by a few choice posters on this board that he couldn't get them to believe, even though he's an "established insider." If you choose to believe that's fine.. if you don't it's no skin off my back. Go past my posts and only read your "established insiders," really I don't care.. I do the same thing with a number of people on this forum.

[Simulack]

LOL at Adam's sig.

[paulpressey25]

I love how starting this past week in our trade proposals, we again are including who we want in the lotto as a prime piece of the team....

i.e.

Guards: Rose/Mo/Bell
Forwards:Dez/CV/etc.....

I remember when we started doing that last year and people were putting in:

Forwards:Durant/CV/Simmons.....

[WEFFPIM]

Man, the make-up sex that's gonna occur here is gonna be epic

[carmelbrownqueen]

[quote="adamcz"][/quote]Who are you to tell ANYONE what they should or should not post? Are you a moderator now? Or the Bucks Board God? Please let me know.. since it's now your job and I guess the job a few others to say whether information should be shared if you can't get everything you want from the discussion regarding the persons "sources." Wow.. this is getting beyond juvenile now.

Whether we "believe" a persons source or not doesn't mean we can't discuss some facets of it. IF MD locks a thread because of how information is presented then that's fine.. if he doesn't lock others because whether true or false (in his opinion) it's presented appropriately then its the RIGHT of anyone who is interested to discuss it. If you don't think it's credible.. then if you so choose, go talk about something else.

[Simulack]

I love how starting this past week in our trade proposals, we again are including who we want in the lotto as a prime piece of the team....

i.e.

Guards: Rose/Mo/Bell
Forwards:Dez/CV/etc.....

I remember when we started doing that last year and people were putting in:

Forwards:Durant/CV/Simmons.....

Here is mine from the 3-way trade I posted in that other thread:

PG: Mo Williams/Sessions
SG: Eric Gordon/Bell
SF: Julian Wright/Mason/Simmons
PF: Yi/
C: Bogut/Hilton Armstrong/Gadz

Plus we still have Miamis 2008 first which could be another lottery pick! So we can add Blake Griffin or Mayo in there too, woohoo!

[carmelbrownqueen]

But GAD is an established insider and you are not. And you are saying he's wrong about how this situation unfolded. You also say that insiders here at realgm back you up, but you don't remember who they are. It's just ridiculous.

Anyway, my sources are a lot higher up than your sources are, and they say you're wrong.

When did I say that? I don't recall anything like that being said.. I believe that is your assumption.

Wow..

[carmelbrownqueen]

Can't we all just get along? I think everyone needs to
(picture)

CBQ, if I start a fight with you on here, can we kiss and make up?
haha

Now now.. I'm not sure that would go over well with my new fiance but I will ask him.

[steger_3434]

CBQ, Adam isn't asking you to research the posts and copy and paste the posts. All he is asking you is to tell him what posters with inside infor backed up your claim. From there THEN he can go back and do the research on his own to verify that they were indeed backing you up.

However, all you're doing is telling him to go look it up for himself. That is IMPOSSIBLE to do without knowing what posters post to look through.

Tell him what posters with insider info backed you up and let him do the rest of the work. If he wants more than that from you then I agree with you that you should tell him to find it himself.