Wisconsin Badgers Thread

[buckboy]

Yeah, Crowl isn't any better than he was as a sophomore. Which is very disappointing.

He's the best they have though, sadly. Could've really used a big in the portal instead of Amos.

[MikeIsGood]

Yeah, Crowl isn't any better than he was as a sophomore. Which is very disappointing.

He's the best they have though, sadly. Could've really used a big in the portal instead of Amos.

My thought, as well. I wonder if there was some hope that Amos could have filled this role in small-spurts, maybe a la Marcus Landry, but he clearly ain't it / it didn't transfer over from the lower ranks of CBB.

[Kerb Hohl]

Yeah, Crowl isn't any better than he was as a sophomore. Which is very disappointing.

He's the best they have though, sadly. Could've really used a big in the portal instead of Amos.

Amos disappoints me a little bit given what I thought his potential may be - and he may get there.

But in my forever waffling about Gard and talent in college sports, this is the issue. Gard has improved but is still taking the same guys he used to. Other teams are taking more swings and high-upside guys and dealing with the portal to fill in the gaps. There are probably a lot of teams paying for this with really **** teams, though. Crowl is just capped at how good he can be.

However, TBD - we're seeing Fickell probably go the other direction in lots of swings at high end talent vs. taking the safe/developmental options. We'll see if that's a possible route for Wisconsin. It's possible we're not going to get enough high-end talent that way, either.

[chonestown]

Yeah, Crowl isn't any better than he was as a sophomore. Which is very disappointing.

He's the best they have though, sadly. Could've really used a big in the portal instead of Amos.

Amos disappoints me a little bit given what I thought his potential may be - and he may get there.

But in my forever waffling about Gard and talent in college sports, this is the issue. Gard has improved but is still taking the same guys he used to. Other teams are taking more swings and high-upside guys and dealing with the portal to fill in the gaps. There are probably a lot of teams paying for this with really **** teams, though. Crowl is just capped at how good he can be.

However, TBD - we're seeing Fickell probably go the other direction in lots of swings at high end talent vs. taking the safe/developmental options. We'll see if that's a possible route for Wisconsin. It's possible we're not going to get enough high-end talent that way, either.

Gard got both Storrs and Tonje in the portal. Guys, who based on performance AND style of play, literally any top-tier program would gladly take. Storrs left to go to the top-ranked team in the country! By definition, that's high-end talent.

Crowl do make me wistful for Dave Mader, though. If you're going to do nothing, might as well do nothing at 270 while "inadvertently" landing a couple elbows.

[Kerb Hohl]

Yeah, Crowl isn't any better than he was as a sophomore. Which is very disappointing.

He's the best they have though, sadly. Could've really used a big in the portal instead of Amos.

Amos disappoints me a little bit given what I thought his potential may be - and he may get there.

But in my forever waffling about Gard and talent in college sports, this is the issue. Gard has improved but is still taking the same guys he used to. Other teams are taking more swings and high-upside guys and dealing with the portal to fill in the gaps. There are probably a lot of teams paying for this with really **** teams, though. Crowl is just capped at how good he can be.

However, TBD - we're seeing Fickell probably go the other direction in lots of swings at high end talent vs. taking the safe/developmental options. We'll see if that's a possible route for Wisconsin. It's possible we're not going to get enough high-end talent that way, either.

Gard got both Storrs and Tonje in the portal. Guys, who based on performance AND style of play, literally any top-tier program would gladly take. Storrs left to go to the top-ranked team in the country! By definition, that's high-end talent.

Crowl do make me wistful for Dave Mader, though. If you're going to do nothing, might as well do nothing at 270 while "inadvertently" landing a couple elbows.

Legitimate top 15 teams are loaded with these guys, though. Tonje is really good, I'm not sure he's a superstar sort of guy. Regardless, Gard has been really good at finding them in the portal.

The problem is that Wisconsin recruits Steven Crowl and develops/keeps him and his known ceiling is "solid Big Ten starter." There are probably 15 guys that can replace what Crowl does for other teams in the portal every single year.

Alabama, Illinois, other teams consistently better are recruiting several higher ceiling guys over 2 years and tell them they have a path to starting early and likely find a player that is much better than Steven Crowl. If all else fails, they fill in the portal.

That's kind of where we're stuck...but I'm not sure going the other route is going to be a better option - because there's only so many of those good players out there in the end.

[DingleJerry]

TBF, Crowl was brought in long before the change of the world order in college sports. And has been generally competent his career so tough to take the gamble to push him out. Winter recruiting started back then too. So just saying I wouldn't take it as much of an indicator on the future here. With how much everything else has changed I'd expect that to be gone too and Crowl to kind of be the last bridge to the old ways. But we'll see this offseason. I'd guess bigs with athleticism will be the push in the future, I think we can all see it.

That said, Crowl has killed them the last few games. With all his experience he just has to be better. I'd also add that his 'mold' isn't necessarily something that can't work in the future, but they have to be able to shoot. Crowl never being a good enough shooter has been a drag the last few years.

[Kerb Hohl]

TBF, Crowl was brought in long before the change of the world order in college sports. And has been generally competent his career so tough to take the gamble to push him out. Winter recruiting started back then too. So just saying I wouldn't take it as much of an indicator on the future here. With how much everything else has changed I'd expect that to be gone too and Crowl to kind of be the last bridge to the old ways. But we'll see this offseason. I'd guess bigs with athleticism will be the push in the future, I think we can all see it.

That said, Crowl has killed them the last few games. With all his experience he just has to be better. I'd also add that his 'mold' isn't necessarily something that can't work in the future, but they have to be able to shoot. Crowl never being a good enough shooter has been a drag the last few years.

Call me crazy, but they have one big man commit and my guess is he's going to have the developmental ceiling of Crowl.

https://247sports.com/player/will-garlock-46138191/

Gard has adapted a bit in finding guys in the portal and moving on when he has to - but in terms of finding a roster deep with high-end talent, while money may be a big reason - I don't think he's going to be getting that going anytime soon.

Winter has a bit more run and jump upside, but I don't think he's going to be bullying guys above the rim the next 2 years, either.

[DingleJerry]

TBF, Crowl was brought in long before the change of the world order in college sports. And has been generally competent his career so tough to take the gamble to push him out. Winter recruiting started back then too. So just saying I wouldn't take it as much of an indicator on the future here. With how much everything else has changed I'd expect that to be gone too and Crowl to kind of be the last bridge to the old ways. But we'll see this offseason. I'd guess bigs with athleticism will be the push in the future, I think we can all see it.

That said, Crowl has killed them the last few games. With all his experience he just has to be better. I'd also add that his 'mold' isn't necessarily something that can't work in the future, but they have to be able to shoot. Crowl never being a good enough shooter has been a drag the last few years.

Call me crazy, but they have one big man commit and my guess is he's going to have the developmental ceiling of Crowl.

https://247sports.com/player/will-garlock-46138191/

Gard has adapted a bit in finding guys in the portal and moving on when he has to - but in terms of finding a roster deep with high-end talent, while money may be a big reason - I don't think he's going to be getting that going anytime soon.

Winter has a bit more run and jump upside, but I don't think he's going to be bullying guys above the rim the next 2 years, either.

Yea its all about transfers now. I don't even follow all the stuff anymore because its just free agency after the year. But yea, I assume they're still going to want the mode of big guys who can shoot, the key is they actually have to be able to shoot unlike crowl. But around it I'm sure they see what we all see in needing a modern athletic big too

[chonestown]

That's kind of where we're stuck...but I'm not sure going the other route is going to be a better option - because there's only so many of those good players out there in the end.

Ultimately, this is where I land. I also think the difference between the middle-class and upper-class is less than what it had been traditionally. Take a look at recent Final 4s. Being stuck in that neighborhood has come with a wildly-varying ceiling.

Gard's got a team that scores in the 80s, allows his shooters to pull it and has ceded freedom to wing penetrators that didn't exist before Johnny Davis. For a team supposed to have an intractable identity, he's showed surprising flexibility.

[Kerb Hohl]

TBF, Crowl was brought in long before the change of the world order in college sports. And has been generally competent his career so tough to take the gamble to push him out. Winter recruiting started back then too. So just saying I wouldn't take it as much of an indicator on the future here. With how much everything else has changed I'd expect that to be gone too and Crowl to kind of be the last bridge to the old ways. But we'll see this offseason. I'd guess bigs with athleticism will be the push in the future, I think we can all see it.

That said, Crowl has killed them the last few games. With all his experience he just has to be better. I'd also add that his 'mold' isn't necessarily something that can't work in the future, but they have to be able to shoot. Crowl never being a good enough shooter has been a drag the last few years.

Call me crazy, but they have one big man commit and my guess is he's going to have the developmental ceiling of Crowl.

https://247sports.com/player/will-garlock-46138191/

Gard has adapted a bit in finding guys in the portal and moving on when he has to - but in terms of finding a roster deep with high-end talent, while money may be a big reason - I don't think he's going to be getting that going anytime soon.

Winter has a bit more run and jump upside, but I don't think he's going to be bullying guys above the rim the next 2 years, either.

Yea its all about transfers now. I don't even follow all the stuff anymore because its just free agency after the year. But yea, I assume they're still going to want the mode of big guys who can shoot, the key is they actually have to be able to shoot unlike crowl. But around it I'm sure they see what we all see in needing a modern athletic big too

Well, unless Winter leaves and Gard does his portal magic, I don't think they will be finding a difference-making big in the portal, either. That's obviously hard to find.

[Kerb Hohl]

That's kind of where we're stuck...but I'm not sure going the other route is going to be a better option - because there's only so many of those good players out there in the end.

Ultimately, this is where I land. I also think the difference between the middle-class and upper-class is less than what it had been traditionally. Take a look at recent Final 4s. Being stuck in that neighborhood has come with a wildly-varying ceiling.

Gard's got a team that scores in the 80s, allows his shooters to pull it and has ceded freedom to wing penetrators that didn't exist before Johnny Davis. For a team supposed to have an intractable identity, he's showed surprising flexibility.

The more I've thought about it of late, I actually think Gard is closer to Bo Ryan than given credit.

The two things that have changed over this past decade is: depth of opponents due to Big Ten trying harder and having more money + other teams figuring out analytics and efficiency.

It just sucks because I think we're stuck in this cycle now of a moderately promising year when they hit a home run with the portal or a Johnny Davis followed up by a year where there are just a bunch of weaknesses.

[Mtsportsfan]

Yeah, Crowl isn't any better than he was as a sophomore. Which is very disappointing.

He's the best they have though, sadly. Could've really used a big in the portal instead of Amos.

Amos disappoints me a little bit given what I thought his potential may be - and he may get there.

But in my forever waffling about Gard and talent in college sports, this is the issue. Gard has improved but is still taking the same guys he used to. Other teams are taking more swings and high-upside guys and dealing with the portal to fill in the gaps. There are probably a lot of teams paying for this with really **** teams, though. Crowl is just capped at how good he can be.

However, TBD - we're seeing Fickell probably go the other direction in lots of swings at high end talent vs. taking the safe/developmental options. We'll see if that's a possible route for Wisconsin. It's possible we're not going to get enough high-end talent that way, either.

Gard got both Storrs and Tonje in the portal. Guys, who based on performance AND style of play, literally any top-tier program would gladly take. Storrs left to go to the top-ranked team in the country! By definition, that's high-end talent.

Crowl do make me wistful for Dave Mader, though. If you're going to do nothing, might as well do nothing at 270 while "inadvertently" landing a couple elbows.

Yep , just a couple of hard shots and maybe KAM doesn't drive the lane as often as he did ! I'm not talking about hurting him , just a couple of hard fouls to make him think twice about driving. There is not one guy on this team to do that!

[RiotPunch]

Klesmit has been a complete dumpster fire lately.

[MikeIsGood]

Wisconsin teams utterly inept on the glass. My goodness. Embarrassing.

[Kerb Hohl]

Sadly the comparison to the team of 2 years ago is getting real.

Existential post: I barely watch anymore to be honest. I am in the position that I’m fine with college sports where they are and it’s fun for the general sport - but it sucks for Wisconsin, specifically,

Give me the days of 10-20 years ago where the bottom half of the conference not even trying and it was easy to win 75% of your games in both sports every year by simply playing mostly **** opponents. We had it pretty good. I’m soft and I miss it.

[ReasonablySober]

Existential post: I barely watch anymore to be honest.

Good, stop posting.

[RiotPunch]

Existential post: I barely watch anymore to be honest.

Good, stop posting.

[Kerb Hohl]

Existential post: I barely watch anymore to be honest.

Good, stop posting.

Never.

[chonestown]

Existential post: I barely watch anymore to be honest.

Good, stop posting.

Never.

Tru posting mindset right here.

Love you both, tho.

Weird-ass game last night

Winters looks ascendant this year, so already bracing for the junior/senior year plateauing.

[tski1972]

Looks like they peaked way too early again.