Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Joe Johnson workout, pg 97

[ShootingtheJ]

Bryn Forbes is averaging just 1.1 assists per 36. Have the Bucks ever had a worse passing/playmaking guard? He's an absolute ball stopper.

Gary Neal comes to mind.

Excellent comparison, Neal had absolute tunnel vision. Yet Neal still averaged 2.7 assists per 36 as a Buck.

[M-C-G]

Bryn Forbes is averaging just 1.1 assists per 36. Have the Bucks ever had a worse passing/playmaking guard? He's an absolute ball stopper.

Gary Neal comes to mind.

Excellent comparison, Neal had absolute tunnel vision. Yet Neal still averaged 2.7 assists per 36 as a Buck.

I mean, it is almost like roles matter. Forbes is not on this roster to create, he is there to shoot it or give it right back to where it came from. My only frustration with him is when he tries to do anything more than that, because he can't and he shouldn't.

[ShootingtheJ]

Gary Neal comes to mind.

Excellent comparison, Neal had absolute tunnel vision. Yet Neal still averaged 2.7 assists per 36 as a Buck.

I mean, it is almost like roles matter. Forbes is not on this roster to create, he is there to shoot it or give it right back to where it came from. My only frustration with him is when he tries to do anything more than that, because he can't and he shouldn't.

In today's NBA, there's no longer room for role players, everyone needs to be a basketball player. It's not asking too much for Forbes to simply have a sliver of court vision. Merrill understands how to bend the defense better as a rook then Forbes does as a seasoned vet.

[M-C-G]

Excellent comparison, Neal had absolute tunnel vision. Yet Neal still averaged 2.7 assists per 36 as a Buck.

I mean, it is almost like roles matter. Forbes is not on this roster to create, he is there to shoot it or give it right back to where it came from. My only frustration with him is when he tries to do anything more than that, because he can't and he shouldn't.

In today's NBA, there's no longer room for role players, everyone needs to be a basketball player. It's not asking too much for Forbes to simply have a sliver of court vision. Merrill understands how to bend the defense better as a rook then Forbes does as a seasoned vet.

I just disagree, if you can be an 'elite' 3 pt shooter, that is stand alone in todays league. But like I said, the margin is slim with him, because he has to outscore what he is giving up, so if he is not shooting and making shots you can't play him. I do want to see Merril in that role though because I think he has more playmaking, better rebounding and better defender. But once Bud starts to trust Merril, then maybe it isn't either/or as much as why not both. If Forbes is hot, ride it, if he isn't, give a more complete player those minutes. That's what I would do anyway.

[PG Graveyard]

Do we have the ability to sign another buyout guy or would that put us over the tax?

[Baddy Chuck]

Problem is, he isn't always able to get his shot off because he's too short. Then the ball stops.

I mean you keep saying that but no(?) stat would back that up. He doesn't hold onto the ball and he doesn't turn it over, I don't really see what other option you're left with to suggest that he stops the ball there. He averages 2 seconds per touch, extremely low. He averages 1.3 dribbles per touch, extremely low. He averages 1 turnover per 36, extremely low. He literally gets the ball and gets a (good) shot off or gets it to someone else quick. His points per touch blows anyone on the team out of the water and he turns the ball over less than anyone besides Pat.

[LUKE23]

Think the rotation is set.

Holiday/Teague
DDV/Forbes
Middleton/Connaughton
Giannis/Tucker
Lopez/Portis

[Baddy Chuck]

Bryn Forbes is averaging just 1.1 assists per 36. Have the Bucks ever had a worse passing/playmaking guard? He's an absolute ball stopper.

Gary Neal comes to mind.

Excellent comparison, Neal had absolute tunnel vision. Yet Neal still averaged 2.7 assists per 36 as a Buck.

He also wasn't in anywhere near the stratosphere of a scorer for the Bucks that Forbes has been.

[ShootingtheJ]

Problem is, he isn't always able to get his shot off because he's too short. Then the ball stops.

I mean you keep saying that but no(?) stat would back that up. He doesn't hold onto the ball and he doesn't turn it over, I don't really see what other option you're left with to suggest that he stops the ball there. He averages 2 seconds per touch, extremely low. He averages 1.3 dribbles per touch, extremely low. He averages 1 turnover per 36, extremely low. He literally gets the ball and gets a (good) shot off or gets it to someone else quick. His points per touch blows anyone on the team out of the water and he turns the ball over less than anyone besides Pat.

The problem is, when he passes, is almost always a reset pass. Now the clock is running out, and all advantage is lost. This is why the offense struggles with him on the floor despite his shooting. Combined with his predictability, as a shooter only who can't rotate into the dunkers spot, and were stuck with a poor offensive option.

[paulpressey25]

Forbes is both the best open 3-ball shooter this team has had, and at the same time, one of the most one-skill only players who got decent minutes we've had in awhile.

Both can be true guys. Just as how he can be an asset for us come playoff time, if used sparingly in the right moments.

[ShootingtheJ]

Gary Neal comes to mind.

Excellent comparison, Neal had absolute tunnel vision. Yet Neal still averaged 2.7 assists per 36 as a Buck.

He also wasn't in anywhere near the stratosphere of a scorer for the Bucks that Forbes has been.

Actually wonder scrub Gary Neal averaged more points per 36. Forbes has been a more efficient shooter, but with the caveat that he plays in empty arenas next to Giannis.

[LUKE23]

Neal was 17.9 ppg per 36, .360 from 3, .500 TS
Forbes is 17.7 ppg per 36, .451 from 3, .608 TS

The "empty gym" clarifier is stupid, the entire league is shooting in empty gyms.

Forbes is one-dimensional as hell, but he's elite at that one dimension. Neal wasn't even average in any dimension. Stop with the idiotic takes.

[LittleRooster]

Forbes is both the best open 3-ball shooter this team has had, and at the same time, one of the most one-skill only players who got decent minutes we've had in awhile.

Both can be true guys. Just as how he can be an asset for us come playoff time, if used sparingly in the right moments.

This


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[ShootingtheJ]

Neal was 17.9 ppg per 36, .360 from 3, .500 TS
Forbes is 17.7 ppg per 36, .451 from 3, .608 TS

The "empty gym" clarifier is stupid, the entire league is shooting in empty gyms.

Forbes is one-dimensional as hell, but he's elite at that one dimension. Neal wasn't even average in any dimension. Stop with the idiotic takes.

Did Gary Neal get to shoot in empty gyms? Hence the qualifier.

The fact the they compare at all is a death noll to Forbes, as Neal was brutal.

[LUKE23]

They don't compare at all, as my stats show. Stop with the garbage for the sake of everyone on this board.

[Baddy Chuck]

The problem is, when he passes, is almost always a reset pass. Now the clock is running out, and all advantage is lost. This is why the offense struggles with him on the floor despite his shooting. Combined with his predictability, as a shooter only who can't rotate into the dunkers spot, and were stuck with a poor offensive option.

This "reset pass" theory is honestly just weird. So basically any time he touches the ball that isn't a basket or an assist would be considered a "reset pass"?

Points created per frontcourt touch (points + assisted points)
Donte - .87
Forbes -.83
Portis - .82
Brook - .76
Pat - .73

Outside of our big three literally nobody separates themselves from Bryn there. If he's killing possessions by stopping the ball we have literally nobody on the team outside of our top 3 who doesn't.

[ShootingtheJ]

The problem is, when he passes, is almost always a reset pass. Now the clock is running out, and all advantage is lost. This is why the offense struggles with him on the floor despite his shooting. Combined with his predictability, as a shooter only who can't rotate into the dunkers spot, and were stuck with a poor offensive option.

This "reset pass" theory is honestly just weird. So basically any time he touches the ball that isn't a basket or an assist would be considered a "reset pass"?

Points created per frontcourt touch (points + assisted points)
Donte - .87
Forbes -.83
Portis - .82
Brook - .76
Pat - .73

Outside of our big three literally nobody separates themselves from Bryn there. If he's killing possessions by stopping the ball we have literally nobody on the team outside of our top 3 who doesn't.

This start you're using is incredibly flawed, and doesn't really show anything. Forbes touches the ball less because it's bad to give him the ball unless he's open for 3.

If he was good, the offense wouldn't be worse when he's on the floor. It's pretty simple.

I'd prefer it was one of the rookies replacing him, but it will end up being Teague, which is fine.

[ReasonablySober]

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Thinking this is where Darvin finally lands.

[MickeyDavis]

Davin hasn't had any luck in his NBA interviews and it's a natural fit there so I bet he goes if offered.

[ShootingtheJ]

Ham bringing the Bucks player development system to the college level could be really successful. Happy for him if he gets it.