Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst Given Extension

[ShootingtheJ]

Roster is terrible. A team with a top two player in the league, another All-Timer who still fills it up, a perennial candidate for defensive player of the year, a leading candidate for 6th man, and an upstart kid who looks like young Wade.

We have 2 replacement level players on the floor at all times.

Who?

Kuzma, Prince, Trent, and Green are a combined -.6 Vorp, and that's including only Kuzma’s time with the Bucks.

[ReasonablySober]

We have 2 replacement level players on the floor at all times.

Who?

Kuzma, Prince, Trent, and Green are a combined -.6 Vorp, and that's including only Kuzma’s time with the Bucks.

Yea, championship teams usually have a Mario Chalmers or two in the rotation. There's a salary cap.

[Bucksmaniac]

It would be an all time great coaching performance to win it with this roster.

Bud didn’t have the league’s best shooting team along with Giannis and two talents alongside him like KPJ and Dame. The team still got it done once under him. Was that an all-time coaching performance?

Dude had prime Middleton plus Jrue. A much younger Brook. The Bucks leading the league in 3 point shooting is a function of the coaching. Taurean Prince was not a great shooter before this year.

Not prime Middleton on defense. He was nearly as bad as Dame. On your Prince shooting note he benefits as much as anyone from the talent around him in being wide open, it’s not the coaching that has Prince shooting well.

[ShootingtheJ]

Who?

Kuzma, Prince, Trent, and Green are a combined -.6 Vorp, and that's including only Kuzma’s time with the Bucks.

Yea, championship teams usually have a Mario Chalmers or two in the rotation. There's a salary cap.

Yup, 1 to go with Lebron, Bosch, Wade, and Allen.

[Bucksmaniac]

Kuzma, Prince, Trent, and Green are a combined -.6 Vorp, and that's including only Kuzma’s time with the Bucks.

Yea, championship teams usually have a Mario Chalmers or two in the rotation. There's a salary cap.

Yup, 1 to go with Lebron, Bosch, Wade, and Allen.

Mike Miller started in the Finals, and he and Allen were not much above neutral VORP.

[ReasonablySober]

Kuzma, Prince, Trent, and Green are a combined -.6 Vorp, and that's including only Kuzma’s time with the Bucks.

Yea, championship teams usually have a Mario Chalmers or two in the rotation. There's a salary cap.

Yup, 1 to go with Lebron, Bosch, Wade, and Allen.

Allen didn't start. Miller did. Battier was the 6th man. Ray was deep on the bench.

[ShootingtheJ]

Bud didn’t have the league’s best shooting team along with Giannis and two talents alongside him like KPJ and Dame. The team still got it done once under him. Was that an all-time coaching performance?

Dude had prime Middleton plus Jrue. A much younger Brook. The Bucks leading the league in 3 point shooting is a function of the coaching. Taurean Prince was not a great shooter before this year.

Not prime Middleton on defense. He was nearly as bad as Dame.

Every statistical measure graded Middleton a solid defender in the championship year, as did the eye test. Comparing his defense to Dame's is lame man.

[Bucksmaniac]

Dude had prime Middleton plus Jrue. A much younger Brook. The Bucks leading the league in 3 point shooting is a function of the coaching. Taurean Prince was not a great shooter before this year.

Not prime Middleton on defense. He was nearly as bad as Dame.

Every statistical measure graded Middleton a solid defender in the championship year, as did the eye test. Comparing his defense to Dame's is lame man.

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/khris-middleton-player-stats?category=advanced&seasonType=reg

119.1 is solid? It’s below average.

[ShootingtheJ]

Yea, championship teams usually have a Mario Chalmers or two in the rotation. There's a salary cap.

Yup, 1 to go with Lebron, Bosch, Wade, and Allen.

Allen didn't start. Miller did. Battier was the 6th man. Ray was deep on the bench.

And? You have yet to mention a player that was replacement level. Chalmers had 5 seasons over 1 VORP, including a season on Memphis. He was a defender.

Ray Allen averaged 26 mpg in his 2 seasons in Miami. Sorry, that's not deep on the bench.

[ShootingtheJ]

Not prime Middleton on defense. He was nearly as bad as Dame.

Every statistical measure graded Middleton a solid defender in the championship year, as did the eye test. Comparing his defense to Dame's is lame man.

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/khris-middleton-player-stats?category=advanced&seasonType=reg

119.1 is solid? It’s below average.

You can't compare that to players on different teams, that's not the way it works.

Are you really trying to say Khris Middleton, one of the greatest Bucks of all time, the 2nd hero of that championship team, multi time All Star, Olympian, wasn't good?

[Bucksmaniac]

Every statistical measure graded Middleton a solid defender in the championship year, as did the eye test. Comparing his defense to Dame's is lame man.

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/khris-middleton-player-stats?category=advanced&seasonType=reg

119.1 is solid? It’s below average.

You can't compare that to players on different teams, that's not the way it works.

Are you really trying to say Khris Middleton, one of the greatest Bucks of all time, the 2nd hero of that championship team, multi time All Star, Olympian, wasn't good?

After his hamstring issues he wasn’t good on defense, nothing controversial about that.

[ShootingtheJ]

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/khris-middleton-player-stats?category=advanced&seasonType=reg

119.1 is solid? It’s below average.

You can't compare that to players on different teams, that's not the way it works.

Are you really trying to say Khris Middleton, one of the greatest Bucks of all time, the 2nd hero of that championship team, multi time All Star, Olympian, wasn't good?

After his hamstring issues he wasn’t good on defense, nothing controversial about that.

Other than it's wrong. Opponents consistently shot poorly in iso versus Middleton, and he was really good at team concepts.

[Bucksmaniac]

You can't compare that to players on different teams, that's not the way it works.

Are you really trying to say Khris Middleton, one of the greatest Bucks of all time, the 2nd hero of that championship team, multi time All Star, Olympian, wasn't good?

After his hamstring issues he wasn’t good on defense, nothing controversial about that.

Other than it's wrong. Opponents consistently shot poorly in iso versus Middleton, and he was really good at team concepts.

The Net Rating stats are there in the link I shared a few posts back. It plunged starting our championship year and was negative from that year on. It’s clear that was the year he started to decline significantly in overall play. Yes he did have some great games in the playoffs but was not the ideal all-around #2 on a championship team.

[Dick Tate]

If the Bucks win the finals, would you bring Doc back?

If Giannis says yes, it’s yes.

[ReasonablySober]

Yup, 1 to go with Lebron, Bosch, Wade, and Allen.

Allen didn't start. Miller did. Battier was the 6th man. Ray was deep on the bench.

And? You have yet to mention a player that was replacement level. Chalmers had 5 seasons over 1 VORP, including a season on Memphis. He was a defender.

Ray Allen averaged 26 mpg in his 2 seasons in Miami. Sorry, that's not deep on the bench.

So we’re just moving goalposts now? Okay.

[ShootingtheJ]

Allen didn't start. Miller did. Battier was the 6th man. Ray was deep on the bench.

And? You have yet to mention a player that was replacement level. Chalmers had 5 seasons over 1 VORP, including a season on Memphis. He was a defender.

Ray Allen averaged 26 mpg in his 2 seasons in Miami. Sorry, that's not deep on the bench.

So we’re just moving goalposts now? Okay.

What goalposts are moving? You said Miami had a bunch of replacement level players like the Bucks do, and then failed to name 1.

Are you really arguing the Bucks have a strong roster? You've already stated you hope we get swept. That doesn't sound like someone who believes in this team.

[ShootingtheJ]

If we win the title then Doc likely gets the option to either go for the repeat or gets bumped up to POBO so he can bring in his own guy. And I’m 100% fine with either in that scenario.

I'm not fine with Hamm as our head coach. Doc is either our coach, or he retires completely. If he needs a job, we just found out Novak replacement.

[Ron Swanson]

If we win the title then Doc likely gets the option to either go for the repeat or gets bumped up to POBO so he can bring in his own guy. And I’m 100% fine with either in that scenario.

I'm not fine with Hamm as our head coach. Doc is either our coach, or he retires completely. If he needs a job, we just found out Novak replacement.

If we win another title then Doc could pick his doofus son to coach the team and as long as Giannis is fine with it, so am I.

[ShootingtheJ]

If we win the title then Doc likely gets the option to either go for the repeat or gets bumped up to POBO so he can bring in his own guy. And I’m 100% fine with either in that scenario.

I'm not fine with Hamm as our head coach. Doc is either our coach, or he retires completely. If he needs a job, we just found out Novak replacement.

If we win another title then Doc could pick his doofus son to coach the team and as long as Giannis is fine with it, so am I.

Yeah, winning it this year would really be something.

[JRoy]

Just for fun, I've been playing with the trade machines. Blazers could likely offer a trade centered around Shaedon Sharp, Matice Thybulle and Deandre Ayton. That package works in the checker with Dame and Kuzma (if the Blazers added Grant), and a minimal filler.

I'm not saying the Bucks should do that type of deal, but in theory, there are several variables that could work.

I'd do that but your fellow Portlander is about to storm in and nix it for including Sharpe. And, frankly, he's got a point. Not sure why you'd do this.

I'm hoping Portland captures the Flagg, then they can include Avdija with Ayton for Dame.

Hope is a good thing.