Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news, re-tool discussion

[Lippo]

Love it
My Boy DD
Decade too late, wanted Ersan for him to play with Baddie but everyone hated the idea.

[Ruben Quevedo]

"Portland expected to make #3 pick available"

We need to do whatever it takes to get that imo.

The chances of either Miller or Scoot being better than Jrue over the next 2 years are pretty slim in my opinion.

Unless we can flip that pick for a better player I don't see the point.

We have longer then 2 years with Giannis. I'd wager the chances of a #3 pick being better then Jrue are pretty high:

Last 20 #3 picks:

Jabari Smith Jr
Evan Mobley
Lamelo Ball
RJ Barrett
Luka Doncic
Jayson Tatum
Jaylen Brown
Jahlil Okafor
Joel Embiid
Otto Porter Jr
Bradley Beal
Enes Freedom
Derrick Favors
James Harden
OJ Mayo
Al Horford
Adam Morrison
Deron Williams
Ben Gordon
Carmelo Anthony

Yeah I'll take my chances that #3 is better then Holiday... especially when you factor in his terrible offensive efficiency in the playoffs and the fact that you've got what at least 8 hall of famers on that list.

Not going for a legit #2 is what has held this franchise back because FO and fans are such homers for current players. Giannis needs another great player next to him, Middleton and Holiday are far from that.

We should have Giannis for more than 2 years. But how many more years do we have peak Giannis? He might have already begun his decline....

The time is now

[machu46]

"Portland expected to make #3 pick available"

We need to do whatever it takes to get that imo.

The chances of either Miller or Scoot being better than Jrue over the next 2 years are pretty slim in my opinion.

Unless we can flip that pick for a better player I don't see the point.

We have longer then 2 years with Giannis. I'd wager the chances of a #3 pick being better then Jrue are pretty high:

Last 20 #3 picks:

Jabari Smith Jr - still early but obviously nowhere near Jrue right now
Evan Mobley - still early, not as good as Jrue right now. Also probably should have been the #1 pick in that draft.
Lamelo Ball - not as good as Jrue right now and doesn't seem all that likely to get there (but is good enough that it's possible)
RJ Barrett - nowhere near Jrue
Luka Doncic - should have been the #1 pick, much better prospect than anyone that will be at #3
Jayson Tatum - better than Jrue, probably a comparable level of prospect as to what we could get at 3.
Jaylen Brown - debatably better than Jrue, probably a worse prospect than what we could get at 3.
Jahlil Okafor - obviously not
Joel Embiid - obviously better than Jrue. Was the best prospect in the draft that year and only fell because of injury concerns.
Otto Porter Jr - obviously not
Bradley Beal - debatable but Jrue is better IMO.
Enes Freedom - obviously not
Derrick Favors - obviously not
James Harden - obviously was better than Jrue in his prime and was probably a comparable level of prospect as to what we could get at 3.
OJ Mayo - obviously not
Al Horford - maybe better in his prime? could probably go either way. probably a comparable level of prospect as to what we could get at 3.
Adam Morrison - obviously not
Deron Williams - better in his prime at least statistically
Ben Gordon - obviously not
Carmelo Anthony - better in his prime, but also a higher level prospect than we will have available at 3.

Yeah I'll take my chances that #3 is better then Holiday... especially when you factor in his terrible offensive efficiency in the playoffs and the fact that you've got what at least 8 hall of famers on that list.

Not going for a legit #2 is what has held this franchise back because FO and fans are such homers for current players. Giannis needs another great player next to him, Middleton and Holiday are far from that.

My thoughts above on each above. Obviously ymmv on what you think of Scoot, Miller, the Thompsons, etc. as prospects. For me, they're probably around average for what I would expect to be available at #3 in a normal year (Scoot probably a bit better but also a pretty decent chance he goes #2 anyways). Carmelo, Embiid, Doncic, and Mobley were significantly better prospects IMO so I wouldn't really say those are comparable. Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Horford, Harden, Beal, and Deron Williams were probably closer to the same level of prospect as Scoot & Co. and some of them are indisputably better than Jrue while a few are more debatable. I reckon it's probably around a 25-40% chance you hit on someone as good as Jrue currently is. So a 60-75% chance that they are not and even if they are, it may take a few years that we may not have to wait and find out.

It would be defensible to me but I personally would hate it. Would much rather target at least a little more certainty even if it means losing a couple years of rookie salaries.

[Antinomy]

Please stop adding CP3 into trades unless he's going to a third team.

Seriously. Dude gets injured every single year in April or May. And almost 40.

Makes no sense to add him & notorious playoff chokers like DeRozan.

[Ron Swanson]

I just find the idea of "take a gap year to rebuild the asset base with picks/youth and then you can contend in 2024 or 2025" to be incredibly naive. Did people not see how this exact thing backfired for a franchise (Golden State) with a much greater track record of success than us? Giannis turns 29 in less than 7 months (time flies, man). You can't have your cake (trading both Jrue and Khris for picks and 20-23 year old players) and eat it too (contend for championships with that core in the next 2-3 years). Half-assing it never works.

[TroyD92]

I just find the idea of "take a gap year to rebuild the asset base with picks/youth and then you can contend in 2024 or 2025" to be incredibly naive. Did people not see how this exact thing backfired for a franchise (Golden State) with a much greater track record of success than us? Giannis turns 29 in less than 7 months (time flies, man). You can't have your cake (trading both Jrue and Khris for picks and 20-23 year old players) and eat it too (contend for championships with that core in the next 2-3 years). Half-assing it never works.

I agree but not sure how this team even gets better anymore. With what assets they have left should they go all in and mortgage whatever is left of their future while riding out Gianni’s prime? Okay sure, but then you’re at the point where the team is a **** disaster for a decade.

[paulpressey25]

You'd have to make the money work, but I'd trade Jrue for #3 if Scoot were there. This league is now so much about dynamic guards.

But again, can't see Portland ever trading that pick. Right now it is all posture, until they sort out Dame.

[machu46]

I just find the idea of "take a gap year to rebuild the asset base with picks/youth and then you can contend in 2024 or 2025" to be incredibly naive. Did people not see how this exact thing backfired for a franchise (Golden State) with a much greater track record of success than us? Giannis turns 29 in less than 7 months (time flies, man). You can't have your cake (trading both Jrue and Khris for picks and 20-23 year old players) and eat it too (contend for championships with that core in the next 2-3 years). Half-assing it never works.

I agree but not sure how this team even gets better anymore. With what assets they have left should they go all in and mortgage whatever is left of their future while riding out Gianni’s prime? Okay sure, but then you’re at the point where the team is a **** disaster for a decade.

It does feel like the new CBA has made going all in even scarier than it used to be due to how difficult they’ve made it to improve anymore.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LuessiT]

Lol! He absolutely does have the assets to make it happen. They have all their picks including the #3 overall this year. They have a couple promising young players. Building a winner from what they have would be a 1 day job.

He really doesn't. He needs to find 1A to Lillards 1B and find 2B while keeping Grant as 2A. I don't think 1A will be available. Maybe Embiid?

You don't need 4 possible all stars to have a winning team.

Are we talking about having a positive record or winning the championship? For a championship you probably need a player better than Lillard, Lillard, a borderline all star (Grant) and a good fourth option. I’m not sure Portland has enough in the current market to assemble that. They need to trade for like Embiid and find a Tobias Harris level player while adding depth? Something like that. Might have just enough.

[jakecronus8]

The golden state rebuild and the process both work with flying colors if they drafted well. They didn’t.

[jschligs]

We should have Giannis for more than 2 years. But how many more years do we have peak Giannis? He might have already begun his decline....

The time is now

Days like these are when I question why I even come to this board...

[machu46]

The golden state rebuild and the process both work with flying colors if they drafted well. They didn’t.

That's kinda the point though isn't it? Drafting perfectly or even drafting well aren't something you can safely assume. I also think there's a big difference with Golden State vs. us because we're talking about stripping the team down to get an early draft pick vs. Golden State keeping their core intact while also lucking into those picks. They were able to miss on all those picks and still win a title anyways; if we did what people are proposing and missed on the pick we'd be fighting for a playoff spot until Giannis inevitably leaves.

[Ruben Quevedo]

We should have Giannis for more than 2 years. But how many more years do we have peak Giannis? He might have already begun his decline....

The time is now

Days like these are when I question why I even come to this board...

I don't think it's far fetched at all. His shooting has not improved, and his injuries are starting to pile up (not to mention the chronic knee issue). 2021-2022 Giannis might end up being the best version we ever see.

[ABucksFan]

HOU calls up Khris for the 4th pick + spare parts. What you doing.

[M-C-G]

We should have Giannis for more than 2 years. But how many more years do we have peak Giannis? He might have already begun his decline....

The time is now

Days like these are when I question why I even come to this board...

I don't think it's far fetched at all. His shooting has not improved, and his injuries are starting to pile up (not to mention the chronic knee issue). 2021-2022 Giannis might end up being the best version we ever see.

It's not hard to see how Giannis can age gracefully, learn to play in the post. I was against this idea for so long, but now watching the beating he is taking by guys just sliding under him taking charges, it is time to change his game.

Doesn't mean he can't still do the other stuff, but getting beaten on and going to the line isn't a winning strategy come playoff time. Time to change up his game where he can still be extremely dominant for a long time.

[RiotPunch]

HOU calls up Khris for the 4th pick + spare parts. What you doing.

Driving him to the airport blasting a chopped and screwed playlist.

[Ron Swanson]

The core of this team are guys that were drafted 15th, 17th, and 39th overall in the draft. The Spurs extended their title window another half-decade (2011-2017) by trading George Hill for the 15th pick and drafting Kawhi, not by trading Tony Parker or Manu. This is where we need to start talking more about Bobby/Grayson/Pat/Marjon and smaller asset deals. For instance, that proposed Bobby & Grayson to Indiana for salary filler and #26 + #29 deal is the kind of thing we need to be looking at. Not "trade your 2nd best player to Portland so you can draft 19-year old rookie" stuff.

[M-C-G]

Some really tough decisions this offseason, but my guess is that the big and maybe only domino was firing Bud. I think they'll run it back with a new coach and some stuff on the fringes and try bringing it back, which is probably fine.

But, I think it would be wiser to try and cash in one of Jrue or Midds for a decent young player and a decent draft pick. I'd be on the phone with Hammond because that seems like a match.

Then if it looks like we still need to change, I'd kind of burn it down around Giannis and see what we can come up with but just make sure the new coach has input to get the right kind of players before you do it.

[neiLz]

We should have Giannis for more than 2 years. But how many more years do we have peak Giannis? He might have already begun his decline....

The time is now

Days like these are when I question why I even come to this board...

dude just had like the best season as a big man since wilt and we are ready to expect a decline. giannis is a freak and a gym rat, he will not be declining anytime soon.

[Xanadu]

How about a package of Khris and Jrue to Portland for 3 and Simons. Then take the 3rd and use it to get OG from the raptors and perhaps their 1st. Depending on how the new coach feels about Marjon throw him into the mix.
Simons gives you a late shot creation option who i think thrives next to Giannis. OG gives you that elite 3 and D option. Suddenly our teams timelines fit much better. Depends on if you think Simons can be a true star.