ATL - LMA retires with heart issue - pg 78

[DingleJerry]

Looking at the standings. I know it's not huge, butI really think we should want and push for that 2 seed. With BKN still hurt hopefully they can get there. I'd expect MIA/BOS to finish well and get to the 5,6 seeds so I think it would be a big plus to get away from them getting up to the 2. Plus, of course getting that home court vs BKN in round 2 could matter. Of course would prefer the 1 but let's not get greedy and Phi isn't hurt like BKN. I suppose if they can get both these heads up games vs Phi this weekend that changes things though.

[KidA24]

If you were to take every Finals team and remove the best player, has there ever been a worse roster to win a conference finals than this one?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2018-nba-eastern-conference-finals-cavaliers-vs-celtics.html

LeBron's first Cleveland NBA Finals team.

The east was terrible, but those two Nets teams that made the finals were abysmal aside from Kidd. I think the Cleveland teams win out though.

[coolhandluke121]

If you were to take every Finals team and remove the best player, has there ever been a worse roster to win a conference finals than this one?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2018-nba-eastern-conference-finals-cavaliers-vs-celtics.html

LeBron's first Cleveland NBA Finals team.

The east was terrible, but those two Nets teams that made the finals were abysmal aside from Kidd. I think the Cleveland teams win out though.

I'm with emunney on this. Guys like K-Mart and Richard Jefferson from those Nets, or Josh Howard and Devin Harris from the '06 Mavs, were darn good 2-way players who help any team a lot. Other guys like Kittles and Van Horn and Jason Terry were plenty good. Those Nets in particular were actually pretty good but LAL and SAS were dynasties.

The Cavs had K-Love but history has not exactly vindicated his contributions in terms of actual impact. Quite the contrary in fact. That said, the path to the finals was fairly easy for them compared to the '06 Mavs and arguably even the Kidd nets.

So Sterling Brown got assaulted after getting into the wrong van on his way home from the strip club? There's a free Candy joke in there somewhere. Something tells me he won't be suing the city for that.

[skones]

LeBron's first Cleveland NBA Finals team.

The east was terrible, but those two Nets teams that made the finals were abysmal aside from Kidd. I think the Cleveland teams win out though.

I'm with emunney on this. Guys like K-Mart and Richard Jefferson from those Nets, or Josh Howard and Devin Harris from the '06 Mavs, were darn good 2-way players who help any team a lot. Other guys like Kittles and Van Horn and Jason Terry were plenty good. Those Nets in particular were actually pretty good but LAL and SAS were dynasties.

The Cavs had K-Love but history has not exactly vindicated his contributions in terms of actual impact. Quite the contrary in fact. That said, the path to the finals was fairly easy for them compared to the '06 Mavs and arguably even the Kidd nets.

So Sterling Brown got assaulted after getting into the wrong van on his way home from the strip club? There's a free Candy joke in there somewhere. Something tells me he won't be suing the city for that.

It's pretty weird to say that A, B, and C were good two way players and then list the guys you did as quality supporting cast members when Kevin Love is pretty comfortably better. Devin Harris was a 22 year old bench guard who would mostly disappoint in Dallas until he moved onto New Jersey. Jefferson was a rookie and sophomore during those Nets campaigns. Kerry Kittles, Keith Van Horn, Jason Terry, but it's Love who's the guy who's history hasn't vindicated his contributions? You can't be serious.

[coolhandluke121]

The east was terrible, but those two Nets teams that made the finals were abysmal aside from Kidd. I think the Cleveland teams win out though.

I'm with emunney on this. Guys like K-Mart and Richard Jefferson from those Nets, or Josh Howard and Devin Harris from the '06 Mavs, were darn good 2-way players who help any team a lot. Other guys like Kittles and Van Horn and Jason Terry were plenty good. Those Nets in particular were actually pretty good but LAL and SAS were dynasties.

The Cavs had K-Love but history has not exactly vindicated his contributions in terms of actual impact. Quite the contrary in fact. That said, the path to the finals was fairly easy for them compared to the '06 Mavs and arguably even the Kidd nets.

So Sterling Brown got assaulted after getting into the wrong van on his way home from the strip club? There's a free Candy joke in there somewhere. Something tells me he won't be suing the city for that.

It's pretty weird to say that A, B, and C were good two way players and then list the guys you did as quality supporting cast members when Kevin Love is pretty comfortably better. Devin Harris was a 22 year old bench guard who would mostly disappoint in Dallas until he moved onto New Jersey. Jefferson was a rookie and sophomore during those Nets campaigns. Kerry Kittles, Keith Van Horn, Jason Terry, but it's Love who's the guy who's history hasn't vindicated his contributions? You can't be serious.

You can't be serious if you think that's all it's about, and I didn't even say Love wasn't better per se. The point is that those Mavs and Nets had several good players besides their star, whereas Lebron had just Love and he was supremely overrated for his empty stats from his loser Timberwolves days.

[Ron Swanson]

George Hill, Jae Crowder, JR (when he was still useful), Tristan Thompson, Korver, etc. That's a lot of very good veteran players whose "impact" we saw translate on multiple playoff teams throughout the years. And that's not even getting into the tradition of underrating every All-Star/All-NBA level big that Lebron plays with because they tend to get neutered being forced to play a position or style that doesn't maximize their strengths. Point is I don't think that 2018 Cavs team is even in the Top-10 of worst supporting casts to ever make a Finals. 2007 Cavs sure is up there though.

[skones]

You can't be serious if you think that's all it's about, and I didn't even say Love wasn't better per se. The point is that those Mavs and Nets had several good players besides their star, whereas Lebron had just Love and he was supremely overrated for his empty stats from his loser Timberwolves days.

We're going to run down everyone elses roster except for that Cleveland team then? George Hill, Tristan Thompson, Jae Crowder, Jordan Clarkson, Kyle Korver.... But again, you've done the same thing here, Love supremely overrated for his empty stats, meanwhile again, sitting there using names like Keith Van Horn in defense of that Nets roster. You're not being consistent. Believe it or not, Kevin Love was an incredibly impactful player during his "loser Timberwolves days," and his role being dramatically altered in Cleveland doesn't change that.

[DingleJerry]

The first Lebron finals when they lost to Spurs was really the atrocious roster he took to the finals. The ones who lost to the Warriors on paper looked better than they were as the other stars were hurt in the playoffs so he was rolling with Delly as his #2 in the Finals and still winning some games.

[coolhandluke121]

You can't be serious if you think that's all it's about, and I didn't even say Love wasn't better per se. The point is that those Mavs and Nets had several good players besides their star, whereas Lebron had just Love and he was supremely overrated for his empty stats from his loser Timberwolves days.

We're going to run down everyone elses roster except for that Cleveland team then? George Hill, Tristan Thompson, Jae Crowder, Jordan Clarkson.... But again, you've done the same thing here, Love supremely overrated for his empty stats, meanwhile again, sitting there using names like Keith Van Horn in defense of that Nets roster. You're not being consistent.

You're not really worth arguing with and never have been. Those guys pretty much all played like crap that year, even Hill who is one of my favorite glue guys. If Cleveland's collapse after Lebron left means nothing to you, more power to you.

[skones]

You're not really worth arguing with and never have been. Those guys pretty much all played like crap that year, even Hill who is one of my favorite glue guys. If Cleveland's collapse after Lebron left means nothing to you, more power to you.

I'm not worth arguing with here because you're all over the place and wrong.

Kevin love empty stats overrated loser days!

But the nets had Keith Van Horn u guys!

Listen to yourself.

[Wonka]

I just wanna say, that your father and I love you BOTH.

Haven’t heard the name Keith Van Horn in a minute lol.

[coolhandluke121]

You're not really worth arguing with and never have been. Those guys pretty much all played like crap that year, even Hill who is one of my favorite glue guys. If Cleveland's collapse after Lebron left means nothing to you, more power to you.

Lol. K. I'm not worth arguing with here because you're all over the place and wrong.

Kevin love empty stats overrated loser days!

But the nets had Keith Van Horn u guys!

Listen to yourself.

Yeah because KVH is the only guy I mentioned and K-Mart didn't continue to be a very good PF for Denver without Kidd and Jefferson didn't average an efficient 20 ppg with good defense after Kidd left... and again, clearly I never mentioned those guys... my whole argument is about how much KVH helped Kidd. GTFO, your takes are garbage. Do you see why there's no point to arguing with you?

[emunney]

What's the **** fish? I'm going with this melting Ziggy face ass trick

[skones]

Yeah because KVH is the only guy I mentioned and K-Mart didn't continue to be a very good PF for Denver without Kidd and Jefferson didn't average an efficient 20 ppg with good defense after Kidd left... and again, clearly I never mentioned those guys... my whole argument is about how much KVH helped Kidd. GTFO, your takes are garbage. Do you see why there's no point to arguing with you?

It's almost as if you don't realize the player Jefferson became has absolutely NO relevance to those finals teams, or that Kenyon Martin screaming after a dunk and pulling on his jersey didn't make him an incredibly impactful player. But yes, again, KVH helped Kidd! Kevin love empty stats!

THIS is your take. THIS is an actual garbage take that's on fire. A take that's a steaming pile of **** that's the size of Jabari's fat ancestrally tongan ass.

[coolhandluke121]

Yeah because KVH is the only guy I mentioned and K-Mart didn't continue to be a very good PF for Denver without Kidd and Jefferson didn't average an efficient 20 ppg with good defense after Kidd left... and again, clearly I never mentioned those guys... my whole argument is about how much KVH helped Kidd. GTFO, your takes are garbage. Do you see why there's no point to arguing with you?

It's almost as if you don't realize the player Jefferson became has absolutely NO relevance to those finals teams, or that Kenyon Martin screaming after a dunk and pulling on his jersey didn't make him an incredibly impactful player. But yes, again, KVH helped Kidd! Kevin love empty stats!

THIS is your take. THIS is an actual garbage take that's on fire.

Kevin Love averaged like 12 ppg on 48% ts in the ECF that year. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. The idea of him being anywhere near as good as Jefferson, Martin, or - yes - even KVH was with the Nets in the Kidd era is a joke. I wouldn't trade Nets KVH for Love that year and I wouldn't trade Jefferson or Martin for 2 Loves.

[BroncoBuck]

The first Lebron finals when they lost to Spurs was really the atrocious roster he took to the finals. The ones who lost to the Warriors on paper looked better than they were as the other stars were hurt in the playoffs so he was rolling with Delly as his #2 in the Finals and still winning some games.

Sir! Don’t you dare besmirch Boobie Gibson’s name!

[skones]

Kevin Love averaged like 12 ppg on 48% ts in the ECF that year. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. The idea of him being anywhere near as good as Jefferson, Martin, or - yes - even KVH was with the Nets in the Kidd era is a joke. I wouldn't trade Nets KVH for Love that year and I wouldn't trade Jefferson or Martin for 2 Loves.

You'll be in Shanghai any minute dood.

[coolhandluke121]

Kevin Love averaged like 12 ppg on 48% ts in the ECF that year. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. The idea of him being anywhere near as good as Jefferson, Martin, or - yes - even KVH was with the Nets in the Kidd era is a joke. I wouldn't trade Nets KVH for Love that year and I wouldn't trade Jefferson or Martin for 2 Loves.

You'll be in Shanghai any minute dood.

Did you even know Love's stats in the 2018 ECF or the Cavs' record after Lebron left and most of the same players were still there in 2019 before you started this argument? You will never convince me that you did because your take is completely oblivious to facts here.

[skones]

Did you even know Love's stats in the 2018 ECF or the Cavs' record after Lebron left and most of the same players were still there in 2019 before you started this argument? You will never convince me that you did because your take is completely oblivious to facts here.

Facts like KVH giving the Nets 10.5 points on 38% from the field in the Finals against the Lakers and getting his ass shipped out of town for it in 2002? A rookie Richard Jefferson playing a bit role and giving less than 7 a night in that same finals in 24 minutes a contest? Like Kenyon Martin giving 14.7 on a uber efficient 34% from the field in the 2003 finals turn? A sophomore Jefferson giving 13 on 41% from the field? Kevin Love giving 19 and 11 on an underwhelming 53.5 TS% in the finals turn you're using in question? Oblivious to facts like these?

[coolhandluke121]

Did you even know Love's stats in the 2018 ECF or the Cavs' record after Lebron left and most of the same players were still there in 2019 before you started this argument? You will never convince me that you did because your take is completely oblivious to facts here.

Facts like KVH giving the Nets 10.5 points on 38% from the field in the Finals against the Lakers and getting his ass shipped out of town for it in 2002? A rookie Richard Jefferson playing a bit role and giving less than 7 a night in that same finals in 24 minutes a contest? Like Kenyon Martin giving 14.7 on a uber efficient 34% from the field in the 2003 finals turn? A sophomore Jefferson giving 13 on 41% from the field? Oblivious to facts like these?

You're comparing playing the Lakers and Spurs in the finals to playing against the 2018 Celtics in the ECF and STILL being hot trash like Love was? Give me a break. His stats were just as bad as any of those guys against a MUCH worse team and Martin/Jefferson were already 10x the defender he ever was. If you think those stats are evidence of Jefferson and Martin not being good, it just proves my point about Love when his stats are just as bad against a much worse team while also being a complete sieve on defense.

Crowder was trash for Cleveland too. He was terrible after being traded to the Cavs the summer his mother died and he didn't get his mojo back for years. I like Hill but the fact is he spent the whole season pouting like a little bitch after being humiliated in free agency, signing the Kings for about 2/$40m guaranteed after turning down 4/$88m from the Jazz during the season. He was garbage in 2018 and that's the only reason the Bucks got him so cheap in 2019. That Cavs team was trash.