2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers

[ReasonablySober]

This is the first time the warping around the map got too absurd, even as someone who generally doesn't give a **** about it.

[jute2003]

The writing has regressed.. no argument here. It's still the most entertaining show on tv though.

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[dogswithbeesintheirmouths]

Spoiler:

I have always just enjoyed the show and not critiqued or nitpicked anything. But the "kidnap a wight" plot was so stupid it totally destroyed that. When you toss in the fast-travel, insta-ravens, and miracle rescues the whole story starts to fall apart. It's overkill to say that it ruined the show, but they were clearly writing backwards from "zombie dragon" and totally botched it over and over.

[BUCKnation]

Plot holes be damned, I thoroughly enjoyed that episode in the live viewing, but I agree on the whole after thinking about it, the time jumps and lack of logic does leave a sour taste.

[Turk Nowitzki]

Plot holes be damned, I thoroughly enjoyed that episode in the live viewing, but I agree on the whole after thinking about it, the time jumps and lack of logic does leave a sour taste.

This was the first time the plot holes and lack of logical build up to a major confrontation took me out of a battle/action sequence. All other times I've been totally invested and then maybe later on I can acknowledge a few logical gaps even if they didn't bother me in the moment.

[Turk Nowitzki]

GoT blew a 3-1 lead.

I think it's more like they were up 3-1 and now it's 3-3 and Game 7 is on the road. There's a chance they can salvage this but all the momentum is going in the other direction.

[RRyder823]

The more I've thought about it. The more I dislike last night's episode. Either it's completely telegraphed or the plot points make zero damn sense. It really does seem like they've hit the point where they've gotten lazy and are saying "let's just throw as much action at the screen as possible, sprinkle in some dragons and hope people don't catch on that none of this makes any damn sense"



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[leroyjw10]

Spoiler:

I have always just enjoyed the show and not critiqued or nitpicked anything. But the "kidnap a wight" plot was so stupid it totally destroyed that. When you toss in the fast-travel, insta-ravens, and miracle rescues the whole story starts to fall apart. It's overkill to say that it ruined the show, but they were clearly writing backwards from "zombie dragon" and totally botched it over and over.

Spoiler:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but: If someone who's killed by a wight subsequently turns into a wight, then couldn't the gang just have taken one of the sherpas (or whoever they were) who was killed by the wight polar bear as their example? Then, they could've avoided the whole big battle altogether.

[KidA24]

Spoiler:

I have always just enjoyed the show and not critiqued or nitpicked anything. But the "kidnap a wight" plot was so stupid it totally destroyed that. When you toss in the fast-travel, insta-ravens, and miracle rescues the whole story starts to fall apart. It's overkill to say that it ruined the show, but they were clearly writing backwards from "zombie dragon" and totally botched it over and over.

Spoiler:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but: If someone who's killed by a wight subsequently turns into a wight, then couldn't the gang just have taken one of the sherpas (or whoever they were) who was killed by the wight polar bear as their example? Then, they could've avoided the whole big battle altogether.

Spoiler:

Supposedly, one of the White Walkers needs to do something to turn the dead into a wight. What that is exactly, we're unsure of.

[Lippo]

GoT:

Spoiler:

This truly feels like they started at the end: "Ice Dragon needs to happen." Then spitballed ideas on how that could happen, and that was the best that they came up with.

Some ridiculous plot, "If we show Cerci a Wight she'll help us" (no, she won't, Tyrion knows that)
Let's go out beyond the wall, with no horses, and expect to outrun an army back to the wall.

I just cannot get over that this was the plan. Not to mention the ridiculous time travel that it would take to get Dany and the Dragons to the wall in enough time to save the 7 before they starved to death.

Also, WTF Arya?

Spoiler:

BTW it is called a Dracolich

[RRyder823]

GoT:

Spoiler:

This truly feels like they started at the end: "Ice Dragon needs to happen." Then spitballed ideas on how that could happen, and that was the best that they came up with.

Some ridiculous plot, "If we show Cerci a Wight she'll help us" (no, she won't, Tyrion knows that)
Let's go out beyond the wall, with no horses, and expect to outrun an army back to the wall.

I just cannot get over that this was the plan. Not to mention the ridiculous time travel that it would take to get Dany and the Dragons to the wall in enough time to save the 7 before they starved to death.

Also, WTF Arya?

Spoiler:

BTW it is called a Dracolich

Spoiler:

No phlaychtury. Not a Dracolich. Common man I've played to much D&D to let that slide

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[jimmybones]

Plot holes be damned, I thoroughly enjoyed that episode in the live viewing, but I agree on the whole after thinking about it, the time jumps and lack of logic does leave a sour taste.

Same here. It was definitely noticeable while watching but I still enjoyed it. The more I think about it and read about it, the more annoying it gets.

[Siefer]

GoT:

Spoiler:

The seams are really starting to show, and it's getting ugly. I have sympathy for D&D given the situation they've found themselves in. They signed up to produce an adaption, and proved themselves more than capable of handling that task. Now they're stuck finishing the story on their own when the creator himself doesn't appear to be up to the task. We aren't wrapping up a ton of content in 13 episodes because that's how many episodes this last act should have. That's just how many episodes D&D were able to cobble together given the barebones outline they're working from. That's not to say I think they're doing a good job, but it's a tough spot to be in.

An aside on the plan to kidnap a wight, because I'm not as down on it as most. Broadly, the goal of getting the South to work with Dany and the North is a good one. How to do that is a bit tricky, but if you absolutely refuse to take the dragons to King's Landing, you've probably got to convince the Southerners that the existential threat is real. They clearly landed on a silly plan to capture a wight because of plot contrivances, but I can at least fathom how they got there.

But man...those plot contrivances. Even if I'm willing to forgive the eyebrow-raising wight plan, the execution strains credibility. They were attempting an incredibly difficult heist, but had no scouting, communication, or escape plan, because every single story beat was in service of gifting the Night's King an ice dragon. Even with the transparent plot devices, there were a lot of self-inflicted wounds in this scene. Why wasn't Dany at Eastwatch just in case? Why have Gendry sprint miles to the Wall when this is exactly the kind of thing Ghost would have been perfect for? Why was Jon fighting wights on the ice well after the last person was aboard Drogon? Even if you needed a dragon to die, it could have easily happened while they were still boarding Drogon instead of after. Why couldn't Benjen say anything besides the ludicrous "there's no time," as justification for staying behind. It's such a damn shame, because they absolutely nailed the spectacle.

And Arya's arc has been complete nonsense for 2+ seasons now. It's possible that she's playing Littlefinger, but given the information the audience has to work with, she's being presented as a deranged moron with mystical assassin powers. She's gone from one of my favorite characters, to one who threatens to ruin every scene she's in.

[humanrefutation]

GoT blew a 3-1 lead.

I think it's more like they were up 3-1 and now it's 3-3 and Game 7 is on the road. There's a chance they can salvage this but all the momentum is going in the other direction.

Spoiler:

I agree the writing this season is on the precipice of ruining one of the great stories of modern television.

Most of the time, I've suspected that the things we complain about here go unnoticed by, or are otherwise insignificant to, the casual viewer. But these last couple weeks - especially after last night - I've seen criticisms all over my world from family, friends, and acquaintances who thought the time/distance dynamic was so implausible that it was worthy of derision.

The absurdity is entering the zeitgeist surrounding GOT. Even the Ice Dragon and Dany/Jon couldn't overcome that.

[humanrefutation]

GoT:

Spoiler:

The seems are really starting to show, and it's getting ugly. I have sympathy for D&D given the situation they've found themselves in. They signed up to produce an adaption, and proved themselves more than capable of handling that task. Now they're stuck finishing the story on their own when the creator himself doesn't appear to be up to the task. We aren't wrapping up a ton of content in 13 episodes because that's how many episodes this last act should have. That's just how many episodes D&D were able to cobble together given the barebones outline they're working from. That's not to say I think they're doing a good job, but it's a tough spot to be in.

An aside on the plan to kidnap a wight, because I'm not as down on it as most. Broadly, the goal of getting the South to work with Dany and the North is a good one. How to do that is a bit tricky, but if you absolutely refuse to take the dragons to King's Landing, you've probably got to convince the Southerners that the existential threat is real. They clearly landed on a silly plan to capture a wight because of plot contrivances, but I can at least fathom how they got there.

But man...those plot contrivances. Even if I'm willing to forgive the eyebrow-raising wight plan, the execution strains credibility. They were attempting an incredibly difficult heist, but had no scouting, communication, or escape plan, because every single story beat was in service of gifting the Night's King an ice dragon. Even with the transparent plot devices, there were a lot of self-inflicted wounds in this scene. Why wasn't Dany at Eastwatch just in case? Why have Gendry sprint miles to the Wall when this is exactly the kind of thing Ghost would have been perfect for? Why was Jon fighting wights on the ice well after the last person was aboard Drogon? Even if you needed a dragon to die, it could have easily happened while they were still boarding Drogon instead of after. Why couldn't Benjen say anything besides the ludicrous "there's no time," as justification for staying behind. It's such a damn shame, because they absolutely nailed the spectacle.

And Arya's arc has been complete nonsense for 2+ seasons now. It's possible that she's playing Littlefinger, but given the information the audience has to work with, she's being presented as a deranged moron with mystical assassin powers. She's gone from one of my favorite characters, to one who threatens to ruin every scene she's in.

Spoiler:

I agree with a lot of what you say here.

I'll say about Arya - the more I think about it, the more I am convinced the season is going to end with her taking out LF. There's some logic in her setting a trap for LF by using Sansa. She knows that LF is invested in Sansa, and she also knows Sansa tells LF too much. I also believe, quite strongly, that it is impossible that she'd be so dumb but to actually think that Sansa is somehow responsible for Ned's death, or is a traitor to the family, or is motivated to unseat Jon. She can't hate her sister THAT much.

[DanoMac]

GOT

Spoiler:

Sometimes you gotta put away the over analyzing hat and just enjoy something that is presented in an overwhelmingly entertaining way. Plot hole? Implausibility? For sure. But ladies and gents, we're watching a show about dragons and an undead ice zombie army in a fictional fantasy land with prophecies, curses, spells etc. Its fantasy entertainment and quite honestly the best fantasy story that's ever been told. With so few episodes left I'm focusing on enjoying the ride.

ETA: The top 5 GOT deaths that have most **** me up in order:

1) Hodor
2) Any of the direwolves
3) The giant from the battle of the bastards
4) Viserion
5) Ned

Jon Snow initially made the list but I quickly realized he wasn't dead dead. Oddly I wasn't really bothered much by the red wedding as Robb was super annoying in his bad decision making.

Agree with all of this. I started listening to a GOT podcast last week on a long drive to Nashville and had to turn it off after 15 mins because of the overanalyzing.

I enjoyed this episode immensely, was on the edge of my seat.

I think I can appreciate GOT more comparing it to **** booking/storylines like WWE.

[KidA24]

GoT:

Spoiler:

The seems are really starting to show, and it's getting ugly. I have sympathy for D&D given the situation they've found themselves in. They signed up to produce an adaption, and proved themselves more than capable of handling that task. Now they're stuck finishing the story on their own when the creator himself doesn't appear to be up to the task. We aren't wrapping up a ton of content in 13 episodes because that's how many episodes this last act should have. That's just how many episodes D&D were able to cobble together given the barebones outline they're working from. That's not to say I think they're doing a good job, but it's a tough spot to be in.

An aside on the plan to kidnap a wight, because I'm not as down on it as most. Broadly, the goal of getting the South to work with Dany and the North is a good one. How to do that is a bit tricky, but if you absolutely refuse to take the dragons to King's Landing, you've probably got to convince the Southerners that the existential threat is real. They clearly landed on a silly plan to capture a wight because of plot contrivances, but I can at least fathom how they got there.

But man...those plot contrivances. Even if I'm willing to forgive the eyebrow-raising wight plan, the execution strains credibility. They were attempting an incredibly difficult heist, but had no scouting, communication, or escape plan, because every single story beat was in service of gifting the Night's King an ice dragon. Even with the transparent plot devices, there were a lot of self-inflicted wounds in this scene. Why wasn't Dany at Eastwatch just in case? Why have Gendry sprint miles to the Wall when this is exactly the kind of thing Ghost would have been perfect for? Why was Jon fighting wights on the ice well after the last person was aboard Drogon? Even if you needed a dragon to die, it could have easily happened while they were still boarding Drogon instead of after. Why couldn't Benjen say anything besides the ludicrous "there's no time," as justification for staying behind. It's such a damn shame, because they absolutely nailed the spectacle.

And Arya's arc has been complete nonsense for 2+ seasons now. It's possible that she's playing Littlefinger, but given the information the audience has to work with, she's being presented as a deranged moron with mystical assassin powers. She's gone from one of my favorite characters, to one who threatens to ruin every scene she's in.

Spoiler:

I agree with a lot of what you say here.

I'll say about Arya - the more I think about it, the more I am convinced the season is going to end with her taking out LF. There's some logic in her setting a trap for LF by using Sansa. She knows that LF is invested in Sansa, and she also knows Sansa tells LF too much. I also believe, quite strongly, that it is impossible that she'd be so dumb but to actually think that Sansa is somehow responsible for Ned's death, or is a traitor to the family, or is motivated to unseat Jon. She can't hate her sister THAT much.

Spoiler:

The more I think about Arya, the more I feel like she must know Littlefinger has people listening in Winterfell. Sansa must know too, that's why she sent Brienne away (at least, I think so).

Who knows, though.

[DanoMac]

Spoiler:

I agree the writing this season is on the precipice of ruining one of the great stories of modern television.

Lol slow your roll man, this is about as much of an overreaction as you can have. It's still, easily, the best show on television. Nothing about GOT is close to being ruined. Sheesh.

[humanrefutation]

GOT

Spoiler:

Sometimes you gotta put away the over analyzing hat and just enjoy something that is presented in an overwhelmingly entertaining way. Plot hole? Implausibility? For sure. But ladies and gents, we're watching a show about dragons and an undead ice zombie army in a fictional fantasy land with prophecies, curses, spells etc. Its fantasy entertainment and quite honestly the best fantasy story that's ever been told. With so few episodes left I'm focusing on enjoying the ride.

ETA: The top 5 GOT deaths that have most **** me up in order:

1) Hodor
2) Any of the direwolves
3) The giant from the battle of the bastards
4) Viserion
5) Ned

Jon Snow initially made the list but I quickly realized he wasn't dead dead. Oddly I wasn't really bothered much by the red wedding as Robb was super annoying in his bad decision making.

Agree with all of this. I started listening to a GOT podcast last week on a long drive to Nashville and had to turn it off after 15 mins because of the overanalyzing.

I enjoyed this episode immensely, was on the edge of my seat.

I think I can appreciate GOT more comparing it to **** booking/storylines like WWE.

Spoiler:

I will say this: some of the dialogue from that episode was simply outstanding, especially on the march from Eastwatch to the WW. In fact, I'd say the dialogue this entire season has been pretty excellent.

[humanrefutation]

Spoiler:

I agree the writing this season is on the precipice of ruining one of the great stories of modern television.

Lol slow your roll man, this is about as much of an overreaction as you can have. It's still, easily, the best show on television. Nothing about GOT is close to being ruined. Sheesh.

Look, I'm just calling it like I see it. I'm just seeing more criticism of GOT than I've ever seen before from the interwebs and my world. It would be foolish not to have concerns the story is going to end in a way that leaves a lot of people really unsatisfied.

Will that mean the rest of the show is unfulfilled for everyone? Nah. But I look at a show like "Lost," which had a lot of similarities to GOT in terms of the complicated plot. "Lost" was resolved in a way that continues to attract mockery for a show that was as big as GOT was back then. Same with "Dexter." It's to the point that a lot of people wouldn't recommend it to people who haven't seen it.

I'm concerned GOT could end up the same way. That doesn't mean I won't watch it, obviously. But when it's done, my feeling on the experience will be materially impacted by its finish.

Maybe that isn't the case for you. And I respect that. Just offering my perspective.