Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions

[Ron Swanson]

Would be great if either Nwora or Merrill could end up being a steal, but you should never bank on 2nd round rookies to be actual NBA contributors for any team, much less one with championship aspirations. You're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

[jute2003]

I like Pat and think he is a fine bench piece. If his 3ball is falling he is even pretty damn useful. But wtf is with that contract? I was fine with the numbers from the original contract but thst was the high end. This 3 year weirdness is not cool.

[LuessiT]

Did we leave enough MLE to give Nwora a 3 year deal?

We have. We have about 2.6m available. For whatever reason we've handed both our 2nd round picks 2 year deals that are mostly guaranteed. Makes me livid.

By the way, you can actually offer up to 4 years via the MLE. You'd just have to make a decision by year 3 wether you want a player to enter RFA (then you'd have to decline the TO on year 4) or UFA (accept TO). For a player like Merrill this would have been ideal as you'd have control over the entirety of his prime.

[theFireBlanket]

Two things:

, you almost can always bank on a Bucks second round selection. Not so much lottery or first round picks.

Pat is about to improve & then we all see what a nice little accident it might be having a 2nd guaranteed year with 3rd PO.

[emunney]

Did we leave enough MLE to give Nwora a 3 year deal?

We have. We have about 2.6m available. For whatever reason we've handed both our 2nd round picks 2 year deals that are mostly guaranteed. Makes me livid.

By the way, you can actually offer up to 4 years via the MLE. You'd just have to make a decision by year 3 wether you want a player to enter RFA (then you'd have to decline the TO on year 4) or UFA (accept TO). For a player like Merrill this would have been ideal as you'd have control over the entirety of his prime.

Really don't get what we're doing on all the details of this offseason.

[LuessiT]

Also I'm really questioning getting better production from pick #45 & #60 on two year contracts compared to former prospects drafted higher that developed in the NBA on minimum deals. Talking about players like Bender, Diallo, Kaminsky, Frank Jackson, Vonleh, Mudiay etc..
If you get a lot of cheap years you can argue that if you hit you're getting cheaper production longer and more team control via RFA rights over minimum players. But the way we've set up their contracts you're basically betting that #45 and #60 are better than former draft picks that were drafted earlier and had years do develope.

[emunney]

Two things, you almost can always bank on a Bucks second round selection.

Pat is about to improve & then we all see what a nice little accident it might be having a 2nd guaranteed year with 3rd PO.

I appreciate the optimism.

I'm still very optimistic about this coming season and especially the following one (provided we keep Jrue and Giannis, of course), but the little things we're leaving on the table are maddening and it's as guaranteed as Pat's contract that it will **** us up at some point.

[LuessiT]

Did we leave enough MLE to give Nwora a 3 year deal?

We have. We have about 2.6m available. For whatever reason we've handed both our 2nd round picks 2 year deals that are mostly guaranteed. Makes me livid.

By the way, you can actually offer up to 4 years via the MLE. You'd just have to make a decision by year 3 wether you want a player to enter RFA (then you'd have to decline the TO on year 4) or UFA (accept TO). For a player like Merrill this would have been ideal as you'd have control over the entirety of his prime.

Really don't get what we're doing on all the details of this offseason.

It makes no sense to me. I have to think the FO has an idea behind that but as of right now I don't see it.

Edit: Maybe we're looking to open a roster spot and utilize the remaining MLE. That's my best reason for what we're doing.

[theFireBlanket]

Did we leave enough MLE to give Nwora a 3 year deal?

We have. We have about 2.6m available. For whatever reason we've handed both our 2nd round picks 2 year deals that are mostly guaranteed. Makes me livid.

By the way, you can actually offer up to 4 years via the MLE. You'd just have to make a decision by year 3 wether you want a player to enter RFA (then you'd have to decline the TO on year 4) or UFA (accept TO). For a player like Merrill this would have been ideal as you'd have control over the entirety of his prime.

Really don't get what we're doing on all the details of this offseason.

Got to admit this tidbit is definitely beyond stupid

[emunney]

Also I'm really questioning getting better production from pick #45 & #60 on two year contracts compared to former prospects drafted higher that developed in the NBA on minimum deals. Talking about players like Bender, Diallo, Kaminsky, Frank Jackson, Vonleh, Mudiay etc..
If you get a lot of cheap years you can argue that if you hit you're getting cheaper production longer and more team control via RFA rights over minimum players. But the way we've set up their contracts you're basically betting that #45 and #60 are better than former draft picks that were drafted earlier and had years do develope.

If we're really up against the hard cap to the extent that we can't even get a 15th guy, though, trading those 2nds out for a vet min deal would likely preclude a 14th guy as well.

[emunney]

We have. We have about 2.6m available. For whatever reason we've handed both our 2nd round picks 2 year deals that are mostly guaranteed. Makes me livid.

By the way, you can actually offer up to 4 years via the MLE. You'd just have to make a decision by year 3 wether you want a player to enter RFA (then you'd have to decline the TO on year 4) or UFA (accept TO). For a player like Merrill this would have been ideal as you'd have control over the entirety of his prime.

Really don't get what we're doing on all the details of this offseason.

It makes no sense to me. I have to think the FO has an idea behind that but as of right now I don't see it.

Edit: Maybe we're looking to open a roster spot and utilize the remaining MLE. That's my best reason for what we're doing.

Would love to have an interview with Horst that just got into the weeds on all this ****, but we essentially are the market for it.

[crkone]

Also I'm really questioning getting better production from pick #45 & #60 on two year contracts compared to former prospects drafted higher that developed in the NBA on minimum deals. Talking about players like Bender, Diallo, Kaminsky, Frank Jackson, Vonleh, Mudiay etc..
If you get a lot of cheap years you can argue that if you hit you're getting cheaper production longer and more team control via RFA rights over minimum players. But the way we've set up their contracts you're basically betting that #45 and #60 are better than former draft picks that were drafted earlier and had years do develope.

If we're really up against the hard cap to the extent that we can't even get a 15th guy, though, trading those 2nds out for a vet min deal would likely preclude a 14th guy as well.

Yep 900K vs a minimum of at least 500K more.

[LuessiT]

Also I'm really questioning getting better production from pick #45 & #60 on two year contracts compared to former prospects drafted higher that developed in the NBA on minimum deals. Talking about players like Bender, Diallo, Kaminsky, Frank Jackson, Vonleh, Mudiay etc..
If you get a lot of cheap years you can argue that if you hit you're getting cheaper production longer and more team control via RFA rights over minimum players. But the way we've set up their contracts you're basically betting that #45 and #60 are better than former draft picks that were drafted earlier and had years do develope.

If we're really up against the hard cap to the extent that we can't even get a 15th guy, though, trading those 2nds out for a vet min deal would likely preclude a 14th guy as well.

We're really not. We're getting more and more contracts in but I have us at $135,945,360 WITH the 15th player on a minimum deal (hard cap at $138,928,000). Which means we'll even dodge the tax if Leuer's dead cap gets removed (which is a good thing even though part of the fan base will be livid).

Only remaining things that need to be figured out is if a) Bryn Forbes is on the minimum and b) if Portis is on the BAE. Worst case Forbes is on the remaining part of the MLE and we'd still have space for one more guy (but we'd go over the tax with the 15th player even with Leuer's cap removed).

[emunney]

Also I'm really questioning getting better production from pick #45 & #60 on two year contracts compared to former prospects drafted higher that developed in the NBA on minimum deals. Talking about players like Bender, Diallo, Kaminsky, Frank Jackson, Vonleh, Mudiay etc..
If you get a lot of cheap years you can argue that if you hit you're getting cheaper production longer and more team control via RFA rights over minimum players. But the way we've set up their contracts you're basically betting that #45 and #60 are better than former draft picks that were drafted earlier and had years do develope.

If we're really up against the hard cap to the extent that we can't even get a 15th guy, though, trading those 2nds out for a vet min deal would likely preclude a 14th guy as well.

We're really not. We're getting more and more contracts in but I have us at $135,945,360 with the 15th player on a minimum deal. Which means we'll even dodge the tax if Leuer's dead cap gets removed (which is a good thing even though part of the fan base will be livid).

Only remaining things that need to be figured out is if a) Bryn Forbes is on the minimum and b) if Portis is on the BAE. Worst case Forbes is on the remaining part of the MLE and we'd still have space for one more guy (but we'd go over the tax with the 15th player even with Leuer's cap removed).

Are you sure you have all the details on Jrue's unlikely bonuses?

[higharc]

Another optimistic note is that we are finally through with all those middle ground contracts of around 10mil (Henson, Delly, Snell, Mirotic, Hill, Ilyasova). None moved the needle.
Hill just fit in better, but even he didn't outplay his contract. Fair value maybe... if you put a gun to my head.

Brook is our last one and he fits a specific need.

I much prefer our contract distribution now.

[LuessiT]

If we're really up against the hard cap to the extent that we can't even get a 15th guy, though, trading those 2nds out for a vet min deal would likely preclude a 14th guy as well.

We're really not. We're getting more and more contracts in but I have us at $135,945,360 with the 15th player on a minimum deal. Which means we'll even dodge the tax if Leuer's dead cap gets removed (which is a good thing even though part of the fan base will be livid).

Only remaining things that need to be figured out is if a) Bryn Forbes is on the minimum and b) if Portis is on the BAE. Worst case Forbes is on the remaining part of the MLE and we'd still have space for one more guy (but we'd go over the tax with the 15th player even with Leuer's cap removed).

Are you sure you have all the details on Jrue's unlikely bonuses?

I have all his likely and unlikely bonusses included. According to Spotrac it's

$4.7 million likely/unlikely Incentives (@BobbyMarks)

Over 5 years so it's a maximum of $940,000 per year and I've added that to his base salary. He's never recieved over $865,000 and we don't know the exact figures on each bonus but he can't get more than $940,000 so that estimate is playing it safe.

[LuessiT]

Like even if Bryn Forbes recieved the remaining part of the MLE he'd be at $2,591,333 over the $1,737,145 in my calculations. That doesn't get us close enough to the hard cap to matter (but would make a difference if we're trying to dodge the tax - which we should).

[packer396]

Another optimistic note is that we are finally through with all those middle ground contracts of around 10mil (Henson, Delly, Snell, Mirotic, Hill, Ilyasova). None moved the needle.
Hill just fit in better, but even he didn't outplay his contract. Fair value maybe... if you put a gun to my head.

Brook is our last one and he fits a specific need.

I much prefer our contract distribution now.

Enter Pat Connaughton 3/16 with player option - likely worse than a couple of those when they were signed

[emunney]

Another optimistic note is that we are finally through with all those middle ground contracts of around 10mil (Henson, Delly, Snell, Mirotic, Hill, Ilyasova). None moved the needle.
Hill just fit in better, but even he didn't outplay his contract. Fair value maybe... if you put a gun to my head.

Brook is our last one and he fits a specific need.

I much prefer our contract distribution now.

Enter Pat Connaughton 3/16 with player option - likely worse than a couple of those when they were signed

Also Augustin 3/21.

[raferfenix]

John Hollinger is pretty adamant that this was a goof on Horst's end.

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