Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Payne Signed

[emunney]

Spoiler:

Our backcourt defense after this trade:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-shooting-guard-defensive-rating-2023

#1 defensive shooting guard in the NBA

[MVP2110]

Doesn't seem like AG will be anymore forthcoming about injuries then Bud was, and tbh I'm ok with that

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[crowhead76]

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I would expect Dame to be more locked in on defense this year, he seemed to be more locked in on that end a few years back.

[Badgerlander]

Questions for you guys:

Regardless of position, who are our five best offensive players? Who are our five best defensive players?

Dame, Giannis, Khris, Brook, AJJ/Payne/Tyty

Giannis, AJJ, Crowder, Brook, Gortman/Bobby/Pat

[Ron Swanson]

Not expecting him to be a plus but I don't think it's fair to have ever labelled Dame as a "turnstile" type guy either. Even stuck on those bad Portland defenses, he's generally graded out as a middle-of-the-pack PG defender going by RPM. Each of the last few years:

31st out of 77
50th out of 91
14th out of 91
88th out of 95
51st out of 102

Ok, so he was pretty bad in 2019-20, but that at least appears to be an outlier. He's got the wingspan (6'8) to bother most guards and now that he doesn't have to do everything on offense, the effort should improve.

[jimmybones]

Do we even care if Dame allows penetration? Does it not play into our hands defensively to funnel small guards into Giannis and Brook at the rim?

I want our perimeter defenders to put in effort to contest shots.

[rayallenscalves]

[spoiler]

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-shooting-guard-defensive-rating-2023

#1 defensive shooting guard in the NBA

They're not.

Makes total sense to me. Defensive rating is not an individual stat. Mitchell's numbers look good largely because he has Mobley and Allen behind him. Those two make Mitchell look better in much the same way that Giannis and Brook will make Dame look better.

[Ron Swanson]

I think if anything the Cavs are the perfect example of why this whole "but guard defense!?" thing is incredibly overblown. The Cavs had the #1 defense in the league despite playing crummy perimeter defenders at all 3 wing/guard spots (Garland, Mitchell, LeVert). Middleton, Lillard, Pat, Payne, Crowder, and Marjon is hardly a worse collection of perimeter defense than what Cleveland was working with last season.

[emunney]

They're not.

Makes total sense to me. Defensive rating is not an individual stat. Mitchell's numbers look good largely because he has Mobley and Allen behind him. Those two make Mitchell look better in much the same way that Giannis and Brook will make Dame look better.

All those reasons are good reasons why Mitchell's DRTG was good as it was, but it wasn't tops among SGs with 2000 minutes.

I think DRTG can be a decent snapshot of how well a team defends with the player on the court relative to other players on his team. On that measure, Mitchell was 2nd worst on the Cavs among qualifying players, which is not really different from what you'd expect, and offers support to the idea that you can have a good defense with Mitchell as one of your worst defenders.

[ReddRum]

December 16th trade Middleton, Beauchamp, and filler / picks for Donovan Mitchell?

Our backcourt defense after this trade:

Yeah but if our top 3 players can score more than Steph, Klay, and Draymond what the hell does it matter??

[emunney]

I know we always pencil the Ws in as contenders but they're looking awfully shaky to me. Steph/Klay/Draymond is no longer enough to carry all the trash they're hauling.

[M-C-G]

I think you are right, this team is going to be good if healthy, especially come playoffs. I'd rather go through the growing pains with Marjon and AJJ as the starting 2 then put Pat out there for now. Come playoffs, if the young guys haven't earned it, they can be cut out of the rotation, but we are way beyond the point of regular season being all that meaningful.

Get the young guys time and let's see how they can fit in with the rest of the roster, even if it is ugly and frustrating some times.

I think this is exactly right. With Pat in the starting 5, I think we are small favorites in the East. With Marjon and AJJ as productive rotation pieces, I think we are pretty clearly ahead.

The target I have in mind is for one of them to approach 2021 Cam Johnson productivity

Comeon people stop with the extreme overhype on AJJ wtf this guy doesnt shoot has got nothing going for him on O

Daver, I'll keep this simple, can you explain to me any given scenario where you want any of AJJ, Pat, MarJon, Beasley or <insert name here> trying to score in a situation over Dame, Middleton, Giannis or Brook assuming they are the other four on the court?

Most likely not, though I suppose you could get into extremely specific situations.

If that is the case, I personally don't believe you want or need a scorer, nor do I think the Raptors history (starting raw guys like OG, Barnes and even Sikiam) care about having all 5 scorers out there.

What we need is a guy that can be a good perimeter defender and take the tougher assignments so Dame and Middleton don't have to. I'll also say that I think who starts is super irrelevant and who closes is of far more importance to me.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I generally agree that G defense isn't super important, funny how I feel like that opinion wouldn't have been as popular around here a couple weeks ago

I worry more about Dame getting hunted in certain playoff matchups than I do about how he impacts the overall team D this season.

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[Prez]

I think Dame’s defense will be passable. It’s obviously a downgrade but I don’t really see some catastrophic drop-off that just craters our defense or something. He’s pretty strong, decent wingspan, and he’ll A) give a **** because he’s on a legit title contender now with a colossal chip on his shoulder, B) will have way more energy to expend playing next to Giannis, Khris, etc.

I think it might be similar to Kyrie on the 15-17 Cavs where he’s not good, but serviceable enough. Except Dame is even better offensively and not a lunatic.

[Rstuedes24]

If we are going after a target assuming someone gets waived give me Diallo. Still only 25, crazy athletic, good height and wingspan. Lots of talks about how much better the Pistons were with him defensively on the floor versus off. Just seems like he would be better suited for what we’re looking for.

Give Marjon/AJJ/Livingston or whoever some early playing time, figure out who might be something and who might not, deal them accordingly mid season if needed.

[Daver]

I think this is exactly right. With Pat in the starting 5, I think we are small favorites in the East. With Marjon and AJJ as productive rotation pieces, I think we are pretty clearly ahead.

The target I have in mind is for one of them to approach 2021 Cam Johnson productivity

Comeon people stop with the extreme overhype on AJJ wtf this guy doesnt shoot has got nothing going for him on O

Daver, I'll keep this simple, can you explain to me any given scenario where you want any of AJJ, Pat, MarJon, Beasley or <insert name here> trying to score in a situation over Dame, Middleton, Giannis or Brook assuming they are the other four on the court?

Most likely not, though I suppose you could get into extremely specific situations.

If that is the case, I personally don't believe you want or need a scorer, nor do I think the Raptors history (starting raw guys like OG, Barnes and even Sikiam) care about having all 5 scorers out there.

What we need is a guy that can be a good perimeter defender and take the tougher assignments so Dame and Middleton don't have to. I'll also say that I think who starts is super irrelevant and who closes is of far more importance to me.

You are correct all you are marjon as i stated earlier if i had to chose a 2 wod be him( though after seeing those stats i put up with green hitting 65% of his open 3s) might want him.Marjon is cool if his D is what you all say it is thats the perfect scenerio.AJJ i draw the line at.This is a chsmpionship team AJJ hasnt proved anything to me and his stint in SL was meh at best

[Daver]

Shooting % last year on “wide open” 3-pointers:

Malik Beasley: 36.8%
A.J. Green: 65.4%
Khris Middleton: 40%
Jae Crowder: 52.6%
Brook Lopez: 45%
Cam Payne: 40.7%
Bobby Portis: 39.3%

This board still anxious to get rid of green 65% wtf

[drdrG]

Shooting % last year on “wide open” 3-pointers:

Malik Beasley: 36.8%
A.J. Green: 65.4%
Khris Middleton: 40%
Jae Crowder: 52.6%
Brook Lopez: 45%
Cam Payne: 40.7%
Bobby Portis: 39.3%

This board still anxious to get rid of green 65% wtf

What's even better than Giannis 4 on 3 coming downhill from the FT line? Giannis coming downhill 3 on 2 because somebody is face guarding the 65% 3pt shooter in the corner.

[TroyD92]

Shooting % last year on “wide open” 3-pointers:

Malik Beasley: 36.8%
A.J. Green: 65.4%
Khris Middleton: 40%
Jae Crowder: 52.6%
Brook Lopez: 45%
Cam Payne: 40.7%
Bobby Portis: 39.3%

This board still anxious to get rid of green 65% wtf

Anxious is a weird word to use. He also didn’t get a guaranteed deal so he’s obviously not that valuable to the franchise. Might be more to the game then being Duncan Robinson

[Daver]

Shooting % last year on “wide open” 3-pointers:

Malik Beasley: 36.8%
A.J. Green: 65.4%
Khris Middleton: 40%
Jae Crowder: 52.6%
Brook Lopez: 45%
Cam Payne: 40.7%
Bobby Portis: 39.3%

This board still anxious to get rid of green 65% wtf

What's even better than Giannis 4 on 3 coming downhill from the FT line? Giannis coming downhill 3 on 2 because somebody is face guarding the 65% 3pt shooter in the corner.

This board complains that we dont have enough good 3 pt shooters on this team(aka boston) yet we have one a very good one albeit young n posters wanna wave him.I kniw hauser is alot taller hes not known as a D guy in favt hes not good on D at all but they can sure find time in thst lineup to use someone like that.He nsy never be nothing more than a role player but guys thst shoot that good there has to be a spot on a roster for him?