Around the League - IST Games talk

DingleJerry · Post #1701 » by **DingleJerry** » Tue Dec 5, 2023 3:59 pm

Where were all these Jrue opinions six months ago during the should we trade him or not discussions of the summer?

Yea, good dude and good regular season guy but his offense was trash every playoffs. Impending big contract (or him quitting) coming soon, had to look to move him. Wish he didn't end up on Bos though.

BUCKnation · Post #1702 » by **BUCKnation** » Tue Dec 5, 2023 6:00 pm

greekbuck34 wrote:The Celtics are really the anti-2024 bucks right now. All the hype in the first 3 quarters, good defense and zero clutch.
I knew they were going to lose the close game.
The Pacers kept playing their game and Haliburton kept making good decisions without turnovers.
The Celtics started the Tatum and Brown ISOs which are either buckets, turnovers or bad bricks with the other just simply watching and in between Jrue's dumb turnovers and missed layups who fully replaced Markus Smart but with way worse efficiency overall.

Had the same thought. Roughly the same records, but the Celts generally look great until clutch time, Bucks look like trash until clutch time.

crowhead76 · Post #1703 » by **crowhead76** » Tue Dec 5, 2023 6:17 pm

BUCKnation wrote:
greekbuck34 wrote:The Celtics are really the anti-2024 bucks right now. All the hype in the first 3 quarters, good defense and zero clutch.
I knew they were going to lose the close game.
The Pacers kept playing their game and Haliburton kept making good decisions without turnovers.
The Celtics started the Tatum and Brown ISOs which are either buckets, turnovers or bad bricks with the other just simply watching and in between Jrue's dumb turnovers and missed layups who fully replaced Markus Smart but with way worse efficiency overall.

Had the same thought. Roughly the same records, but the Celts generally look great until clutch time, Bucks look like trash until clutch time.

I would much rather have the Bucks problem than the Celtics.

BigO · Post #1704 » by **BigO** » Tue Dec 5, 2023 6:27 pm

The Celtics didn't have Porzingis. They probably would have won with him.

But they do have issues if any of their starters are out. Their bench is horrible defensively, except for Horford,

crowhead76 · Post #1705 » by **crowhead76** » Tue Dec 5, 2023 6:29 pm

BigO wrote:The Celtics didn't have Porzingis. They probably would have won with him.

But they do have issues if any of their starters are out. Their bench is horrible defensively, except for Horford,

Did you watch the game?

Ron Swanson · Post #1706 » by **Ron Swanson** » Tue Dec 5, 2023 6:40 pm

The game was just another reminder of how ridiculously reliant Boston's offense still is on the 3PT shot. They shot 29% and ended up with a 109 OFF-RTG. The two losses before that? 24% and a 97-RTG vs. Orlando, and 32% and a 110 RTG against Charlotte. The Celtics of the last few years are what people inaccurately thought we were under Bud: the ultimate 3PT variance contender.

Bucksmaniac · Post #1707 » by **Bucksmaniac** » Tue Dec 5, 2023 7:10 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:The game was just another reminder of how ridiculously reliant Boston's offense still is on the 3PT shot. They shot 29% and ended up with a 109 OFF-RTG. The two losses before that? 24% and a 97-RTG vs. Orlando, and 32% and a 110 RTG against Charlotte. The Celtics of the last few years are what people inaccurately thought we were under Bud: the ultimate 3PT variance contender.

I think I’d rather have their 3 point dependent roster but have a deeper top 5 or 6 than be relying on an older guard who takes a lot of contact and Giannis to stay healthy. Absolutely imperative that happens in the postseason.

FrieAaron · Post #1708 » by **FrieAaron** » Tue Dec 5, 2023 7:47 pm

jute2003 wrote:Why is it necessary to do this to Jrue? He was a good player, great person, and the missing piece to the championship. He wasn't perfect but he played his ass off and they wouldn't have won without him. He and his wife embraced the city and do so much good.

He is allowed to show that he's human.

I think it's mostly just a reaction to Jrue going from most underrated player in the NBA to equivalent to Dame Lillard and potential MVP candidate overnight when he got to Boston.

BigO · Post #1709 » by **BigO** » Tue Dec 5, 2023 7:51 pm

crowhead76 wrote:
BigO wrote:The Celtics didn't have Porzingis. They probably would have won with him.

But they do have issues if any of their starters are out. Their bench is horrible defensively, except for Horford,

Did you watch the game?

Nope. But it was a close game and they didn't have their only skilled big. Not much of a leap.

crowhead76 · Post #1710 » by **crowhead76** » Tue Dec 5, 2023 8:27 pm

BigO wrote:
crowhead76 wrote:
BigO wrote:The Celtics didn't have Porzingis. They probably would have won with him.

But they do have issues if any of their starters are out. Their bench is horrible defensively, except for Horford,

Did you watch the game?

Nope. But it was a close game and they didn't have their only skilled big. Not much of a leap.

You should actually watch games before making such statements otherwise it is just hyperbole. I did watch the game and I do not think Porzingas would have been the difference maker last night, the team with the best player on the floor in the 2nd half won. Kornet played fairly well last night, 4 blocks. The only Celtic player making shots was Hauser. The Celtics also out rebounded the Pacers 56 to 41. Also, Halliburton is a joy to watch play.

Post #1711 » by **MickeyDavis** » Tue Dec 5, 2023 8:37 pm

Would the Celtics have won with Porzingas? We'll never know. But I certainly wouldn't simply dismiss it. He can be a difference maker against any team. Horford had to play 31 minutes and was pretty bad. Yes I watched the game.

pifhluk23 · Post #1712 » by **pifhluk23** » Tue Dec 5, 2023 9:16 pm

jute2003 wrote:Why is it necessary to do this to Jrue? He was a good player, great person, and the missing piece to the championship. He wasn't perfect but he played his ass off and they wouldn't have won without him. He and his wife embraced the city and do so much good.

He is allowed to show that he's human.

Why do people think that you can't separate the person from the player? I think Jrue is a great human being and I was glad to have him here for the city. But I thought he was barely above a replacement player in the playoffs. Defense is so overrated nowadays, his shooting was so poor that imo it completely negated any defensive stops he was part of.

Post #1713 » by **Prez** » Tue Dec 5, 2023 9:19 pm

Love Jrue but we clearly let him go at the right time, there’s a clear decline happening there. Whether it’s on-ball defense, finishing at the rim, creating separation, etc. Maybe he’s just coasting like crazy but to me there’s a clear physical dropoff from even just a couple years ago.

Saw it posted on twitter, but there are some statistical indicators as well - he probably has the most spacing of his career on this Celtics team and yet his TOV% is up, AST% is nearly halved, his lowest 2PT% (this is the concerning one), TS%, and FT rate in like a decade, etc.

If we had Jrue instead of Dame we’d be in a LOT of trouble, like our window would’ve officially been slammed shut. Now Griffin might close that window anyways, but Dame at least gives us a punchers chance.

Ron Swanson · Post #1714 » by **Ron Swanson** » Tue Dec 5, 2023 9:31 pm

Yep, not enough talk about how dire things would be looking right now with this version of Jrue instead of Dame. I'd be right there with the pessimists and all but ready to blow things up at the deadline (we also would probably be scuttling closer to .500). I don't care that they're the same age. This is Jrue's 15th season in the league. Then you consider all the playoff wear & tear the last 3-years, and that stuff adds up.

Jez2983 · Post #1715 » by **Jez2983** » Tue Dec 5, 2023 10:29 pm

DingleJerry wrote:Where were all these Jrue opinions six months ago during the should we trade him or not discussions of the summer?

Yea, good dude and good regular season guy but his offense was trash every playoffs. Impending big contract (or him quitting) coming soon, had to look to move him. Wish he didn't end up on Bos though.

There definitely was discussion on moving Jrue going back 12 months now. I'm not sure anyone thought he could bring Dame back. We've also got another 6 months of observations, with him in a different environment, to confirm that it's probably a Jrue issue, not a Jrue on the Bucks issue.

I say probably as I still think he would be finding his feet as a complementary piece, and that I think he's still capable of high level two-way play. Just not as consistent as he was.

Dick Tate · Post #1716 » by **Dick Tate** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 3:50 am

The Lakers court is the worst eye-sore yet.

MartyConlonOnTheRun · Post #1717 » by **MartyConlonOnTheRun** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 4:15 am

MickeyDavis wrote:Would the Celtics have won with Porzingas? We'll never know. But I certainly wouldn't simply dismiss it. He can be a difference maker against any team. Horford had to play 31 minutes and was pretty bad. Yes I watched the game.

That's my biggest knock on the Celtics. They designed this team to be extremely reliant on Zinger and old man horford being healthy.

KidA24 · Post #1718 » by **KidA24** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 4:20 am

LeBron still effects the game as much as anyone. Damn.

ReginaldDwight · Post #1719 » by **ReginaldDwight** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 4:30 am

MickeyDavis wrote:Would the Celtics have won with Porzingas? We'll never know. But I certainly wouldn't simply dismiss it. He can be a difference maker against any team. Horford had to play 31 minutes and was pretty bad. Yes I watched the game.

Depending on a guy like zinger to be healthy for any portion of meaningful games seems like wishful thinking.

ReginaldDwight · Post #1720 » by **ReginaldDwight** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 4:32 am

KidA24 wrote:LeBron still effects the game as much as anyone. Damn.

Hard to not call him the GOAT imo, gonna be so weird when he does hang it up.