Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid

[MiltownHawkeye]

Honestly, I still don't see it with Gordon.

Imagine a Josh Smith that isn't stupid.

[Baddy Chuck]

Honestly, I still don't see it with Gordon.

agreed. absolutely 0 offense, even though it shouldn't be a problem COULD be a tweener on defense.

whenever a prospect is best known for his toughness/hustle/heart/etc, it usually means he isn't very skilled. i don't touch him in the top 10. can't believe some people mock him to utah at 5. yuck.

I don't think he's zero offense at all, I just think he's one of those guys who thinks he's a lot better then he is. He can dribble, he can pass, he makes good cuts to the basket but at times he tries to play like he's a superstar. I'd draft him a little later in the lotto based on his potential, but I wouldn't have high expectations for him. Kind of along the same lines as LaVine to me. I think there's the off chance he becomes Josh Smith, with a really good chance he becomes something like the Bulls version of Tyrus Thomas.

[paulpressey25]

That same type foolish rigid thinking allowed guys like Dirk, Garnett, Kobe, etc to get bypassed by to many teams.

I think that has cut both ways though. Guys like Yi, Skita, Darko, Pavel, Oliver St. Jean, and other overseas players have busted.

From a physical standpoint and workouts, yes, that aspect of talent evaluation is obviously comparable with any US players. But if I also have a player with an NCAA resume, that means a lot for me. It has been very, very hard for overseas NBA prospects to have translatable statistics from their foreign leagues and all-star games.

I think you also have to look at where you are picking in relation to other players available. In this years draft you've got three bonafide studs in Parker, Wiggins and Embiid. We aren't talking about Exum versus say Adam Morrison as the choice for the top three clubs.

[Zeezprah]

Honestly, I still don't see it with Gordon.

agreed. absolutely 0 offense, even though it shouldn't be a problem COULD be a tweener on defense.

whenever a prospect is best known for his toughness/hustle/heart/etc, it usually means he isn't very skilled. i don't touch him in the top 10. can't believe some people mock him to utah at 5. yuck.

I don't think he's zero offense at all, I just think he's one of those guys who thinks he's a lot better then he is. He can dribble, he can pass, he makes good cuts to the basket but at times he tries to play like he's a superstar. I'd draft him a little later in the lotto based on his potential, but I wouldn't have high expectations for him. Kind of along the same lines as LaVine to me. I think there's the off chance he becomes Josh Smith, with a really good chance he becomes something like the Bulls version of Tyrus Thomas.

i don't see it at all on offense. nothing about that part of his game impressed me at all every time i saw him. he's got a ton of work to do on that end. and usually that never comes to fruition if history is any indicator.

i don't like the josh smith comp at all.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Honestly, I still don't see it with Gordon.

I think it's his pick and roll defense potential and rebounding that teams are falling in love with. Hes got a chance to be one of if not the very best pick and roll defenders in the league. For an unskilled guy he has a great feel for the game especially when it comes to rebounding; his ultra quick second jump helps this too.

What worries me the most with him is the horrible free throw shooting. Guys who can't hit free throws can start to avoid driving and contact in general and ruin them offensively. It's also a bad sign for his overall development as a shooter.

Saw someone said he's a tweener defensively. This I just don't see. I for sure big and athletic enough to guard 4s and will probably be able to guard 3s and even 5s at times in the pros.
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[Rockmaninoff]

That same type foolish rigid thinking allowed guys like Dirk, Garnett, Kobe, etc to get bypassed by to many teams.

I think that has cut both ways though. Guys like Yi, Skita, Darko, Pavel, Oliver St. Jean, and other overseas players have busted.

From a physical standpoint and workouts, yes, that aspect of talent evaluation is obviously comparable with any US players. But if I also have a player with an NCAA resume, that means a lot for me. It has been very, very hard for overseas NBA prospects to have translatable statistics from their foreign leagues and all-star games.

I think you also have to look at where you are picking in relation to other players available. In this years draft you've got three bonafide studs in Parker, Wiggins and Embiid. We aren't talking about Exum versus say Adam Morrison as the choice for the top three clubs.

I just don't think Wiggins and Parker had statistically significant freshman years. Embiid yes. The others were good, not great.

For that reason I think you have to include Exum in the #2 discussion, because we're going more off of skill set and physical profile, than hard evidence.

[sidney lanier]

There are those who believe that the #5 pick in this draft could net us a perennial all-star.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/471329166881996801[/tweet]

I'd rather have this guy

Not me. Length is nice, but it doesn't tell the whole story, as we've all learned after two underwhelming years with this guy:

[JayMKE]

So by your logic then, if hypothetically high school players had been made eligible for last years draft, you wouldn't have taken either of Parker/Wiggins first overall because they had only faced inferior competition vs overmatched high school kids which they could dominate physically?

It's not even worth arguing, dude just hates exum because he's not American. Exum has been on the radar as a potential top 5 pick in this strong draft since 2012.

I don't think he hates Exum for being a foreign player. Instead, he's irrationally stuck on the kid having not played a year of college ball and on that alone disqualifying Exum as being worthy of being picked over Parker or Wiggins. That same type foolish rigid thinking allowed guys like Dirk, Garnett, Kobe, etc to get bypassed by to many teams.

Scouts and GM's get paid well to evaluate players regardless of the competition they've faced. The good ones can more often evaluate well which prospects will translate to the NBA whether they've played mostly again poor competition, in college at a mid-major, in college in a major conference, or foreign players who could be facing all different levels of competition. Only a weak willed and low skilled scout/GM would flat out disqualify a certain high level talent for any pick based on who that player mostly played against.

Guys like KG and Dirk are easier to project since they are skilled big men, they just have way more breathing room as far becoming quality if that makes sense. Exum is a high school player from overseas that plays a position that you better damn well know how to play, if he isn't Penny Hardaway then he is worthless to me. This year we have 3 players with sky high upside with resumes to back them up, I straight up think they're better prospects with higher upside and less chance of busting. I don't really understand why Smart is ranked below Exum, the reasoning seems to be that Exum is this special prospect because he's 2 inches taller which don't put much value in, Smart has the leadership and intensity of what you out of a PG. I just don't get it, period. Appealing to authority doesn't really score any points with me either, they scouts and GMs aren't gods and they make mistakes more times than not. It's a crap shoot.

[blazza18]

For **** n giggles, I hope we do end up drafting Exum.

[Badgerlander]

There are those who believe that the #5 pick in this draft could net us a perennial all-star.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/471329166881996801[/tweet]

I'd rather have this guy

Not me. Length is nice, but it doesn't tell the whole story, as we've all learned after two underwhelming years with this guy:

Length? He doesn't look it in the picture but Stokes is 6'7", managed to put up 20pts 15reb on Randle

[machu46]

Honestly, I still don't see it with Gordon.

agreed. absolutely 0 offense, even though it shouldn't be a problem COULD be a tweener on defense.

whenever a prospect is best known for his toughness/hustle/heart/etc, it usually means he isn't very skilled. i don't touch him in the top 10. can't believe some people mock him to utah at 5. yuck.

There's more to offense than scoring the basketball. He's a great ball-handler, passer, and cutter for his position. He can knock down shots if he's left open (but he's gotta work on getting it quicker and drastically needs to get better shooting off the dribble if he wants to play as a 3). He can pretty much do everything offensively that you want besides shooting off the dribble.

Edit: And yes, obviously he's an extremely weak free throw shooter from what we've seen so far.

[MrPerfect1]

I would strongly prefer Exum over Parker. Exum is a willing passer who fits the ideal mold of attacking the rim, shooting 3s, and dishing off to teammates. He also has very good size for his position which is a plus.

Parker by contrast loves the mid range 2 (worst shot in basketball), is Harden level bad on defense, and likely will be played undersized at his position.

The last thing I want is a player whose best case scenario is probably that of Melo, 1 of the most overrated players of the last decade.

[machu46]

There are those who believe that the #5 pick in this draft could net us a perennial all-star.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/471329166881996801[/tweet]

I'd rather have this guy

Not me. Length is nice, but it doesn't tell the whole story, as we've all learned after two underwhelming years with this guy:

Really? Henson easily exceeded my expectations his rookie year. He wasn't as effective this year IMO, but I think he's played better than I expected from him when we drafted him at least.

[step3profit]

the mid range 2 (worst shot in basketball)

The mid range 2 is the best and most artful shot in basketball, but other than that, I get what you are saying.

[mattg]

Honestly, I still don't see it with Gordon.

agreed. absolutely 0 offense, even though it shouldn't be a problem COULD be a tweener on defense.

whenever a prospect is best known for his toughness/hustle/heart/etc, it usually means he isn't very skilled. i don't touch him in the top 10. can't believe some people mock him to utah at 5. yuck.

There's more to offense than scoring the basketball. He's a great ball-handler, passer, and cutter for his position. He can knock down shots if he's left open (but he's gotta work on getting it quicker and drastically needs to get better shooting off the dribble if he wants to play as a 3). He can pretty much do everything offensively that you want besides shooting off the dribble.

Edit: And yes, obviously he's an extremely weak free throw shooter from what we've seen so far.

and what position is Gordon exactly? I think he's firmly a 4, but he himself thinks he can play all over the court because he lacks self awareness and understanding of his limitations. He's not a great handler if he's a SF and he definitely isn't a shooter at any spot and anyone who argues for that has no basis for it. He was about as bad of a shooter as you can be except on a low volume number of a 3s which given his ineptitude everywhere else is an aberration.

I want to like Gordon, but guys who should be interior players who think they can play on the perimeter seem destined to fail. I can't see Gordon succeeding as long as he thinks he's something he's not. Or he becomes the next josh smith and ends up as the most overrated player in the nba(though smith is no longer that after people finally realized the dude sucks recently).

[dedned]

I would strongly prefer Exum over Parker. Exum is a willing passer who fits the ideal mold of attacking the rim, shooting 3s, and dishing off to teammates. He also has very good size for his position which is a plus.

Parker by contrast loves the mid range 2 (worst shot in basketball), is Harden level bad on defense, and likely will be played undersized at his position.

The last thing I want is a player whose best case scenario is probably that of Melo, 1 of the most overrated players of the last decade.

How is 6'9" undersized?

[MrPerfect1]

Many consider Parker to be undersized for the PF when factoring in athleticism. If he had prototypical size he would not be regarded as a Tweener by some

[machu46]

agreed. absolutely 0 offense, even though it shouldn't be a problem COULD be a tweener on defense.

whenever a prospect is best known for his toughness/hustle/heart/etc, it usually means he isn't very skilled. i don't touch him in the top 10. can't believe some people mock him to utah at 5. yuck.

There's more to offense than scoring the basketball. He's a great ball-handler, passer, and cutter for his position. He can knock down shots if he's left open (but he's gotta work on getting it quicker and drastically needs to get better shooting off the dribble if he wants to play as a 3). He can pretty much do everything offensively that you want besides shooting off the dribble.

Edit: And yes, obviously he's an extremely weak free throw shooter from what we've seen so far.

and what position is Gordon exactly? I think he's firmly a 4, but he himself thinks he can play all over the court because he lacks self awareness and understanding of his limitations. He's not a great handler if he's a SF and he definitely isn't a shooter at any spot and anyone who argues for that has no basis for it. He was about as bad of a shooter as you can be except on a low volume number of a 3s which given his ineptitude everywhere else is an aberration.

I want to like Gordon, but guys who should be interior players who think they can play on the perimeter seem destined to fail. I can't see Gordon succeeding as long as he thinks he's something he's not. Or he becomes the next josh smith and ends up as the most overrated player in the nba(though smith is no longer that after people finally realized the dude sucks recently).

Aaron Gordon said that he is a forward. There's nothing wrong with that. With his ball-handling, passing, and cutting abilities, along with his ability to make jumpshots if he's left open, he can handle playing some minutes on the perimeter or in the very least, operating out of the mid-range. Yes, he didn't jack up 5 3's a game, but you're saying he doesn't understand his limitations while brushing off a respectable 3 point percentage because he didn't shoot enough. He still shot the 3 ball more than Noah Vonleh this year, and shot a higher percentage than guys like Shawn Marion that have made it work as a 3/4 (not to mention he shot higher than Jabari and Wiggins as well). His mechanics aren't bad either. He doesn't look comfortable shooting off the dribble, but he doesn't have to. That is one area where he can definitely learn about his game more. He shouldn't be taking shots off the dribble at all. He should either catch and shoot, or just take it all the way to rack.

But if you actually listen to his interviews rather than taking excerpts out of context, Gordon sounds like he just wants to go out and do whatever it takes to help his team win games. He doesn't care if it's as a SF or PF.

[SupremeHustle]

That same type foolish rigid thinking allowed guys like Dirk, Garnett, Kobe, etc to get bypassed by to many teams.

I think that has cut both ways though. Guys like Yi, Skita, Darko, Pavel, Oliver St. Jean, and other overseas players have busted.

From a physical standpoint and workouts, yes, that aspect of talent evaluation is obviously comparable with any US players. But if I also have a player with an NCAA resume, that means a lot for me. It has been very, very hard for overseas NBA prospects to have translatable statistics from their foreign leagues and all-star games.

I think you also have to look at where you are picking in relation to other players available. In this years draft you've got three bonafide studs in Parker, Wiggins and Embiid. We aren't talking about Exum versus say Adam Morrison as the choice for the top three clubs.

You get props for the Tariq Abdul-Wahad pull.

[Max Green]

Many consider Parker to be undersized for the PF when factoring in athleticism. If he had prototypical size he would not be regarded as a Tweener by some

Huh, factoring in his athleticism makes up for him being "undersized" for a PF. Now that his measurements are out, the only way he should be considered undersize is due to strength and bulk, he has the length and athleticism to play the position.