CBS: Deal on the table: LRMAM, 1st for Redick.

[Max Green]

quote="whatthe_buck!?"]

let's just say for the sake of the argument we overpay out all three. better lineup than we have now at least... i mean don't get me wrong it's overpaying but it's not a bad lineup.

bj
redick
ers
smith
sanders

Locked into the 8th seed for the length of those deals. Might as well deal Henson.

Yeah right, we are the 8th seed right now, and adding Redick & Smith would be a significant upgrade over Moute & Ellis. We be locked in to fighting for the 4th/5th seed.

That isn't even a coherent lineup. Who guards big quick athletic SGs or PGs? That's a gimmicky lineup that only gives u an advantage against other poorly constructed teams, 8 seed lockdown is exactly right...[/quote]

Jennings & Redick can guard them. Ellis & Brandon guard them now and we are a top 10 defensive team. Redick & Smith are better scorers then Moute & Ellis so our offense will improve as well. That lineup has two elite defenders and shot blockers, 2 great outside shooters, and Brandon who is a good 3 point shooter and could get hot and win you any game.

[sneakerdust]

A rough winshare estimate puts us at about 4 extra wins, but I feel it would be a bit more since JJ contributes to about one quarter of Orlando's wins by himself.

What does the winshare estimate give Lebron and Wade in that heartstopping 1st round match up with Redick rather than LRMAM on the floor? 80 - 100 - 120 more points.

Does winshare have an embarrassment measurement for playoff humiliation?

[jakecronus8]

BTW, does anybody think Josh Smith gives anything near full effort in Milwaukee??

This is totally a Gary Payton situation in waiting.

Doubtful. He'd be mr. Nice guy and try to up his value then bash Milwaukee back handedly after he's gone.

[whatthe_buck!?]

If we keep Sanders and Ilyasova the Bucks won't be bad enough to tank. Simple as that.

Yup. If the deadline passes the way it's looking more and more like it will, this team is without any hope. Permanently stuck in no mans land for the next 5 years (or at least until Sanders gets traded or signs with another team). Fmfl

Wouldn't say that. So long as we don't overpay Jennings and Ellis we're not totally screwed

What do u think the odds are we don't overpay at least one of them if we keep both through the end of the season though? Or are u saying that overpaying one leaves some hope and that only overpaying both means we're totally screwed...

[Buck You]

BTW, does anybody think Josh Smith gives anything near full effort in Milwaukee??

This is totally a Gary Payton situation in waiting.

Doubtful. He'd be mr. Nice guy and try to up his value then bash Milwaukee back handedly after he's gone.

Yep.

[sneakerdust]

quote="whatthe_buck!?"]

Yeah right, we are the 8th seed right now, and adding Redick & Smith would be a significant upgrade over Moute & Ellis. We be locked in to fighting for the 4th/5th seed.

That isn't even a coherent lineup. Who guards big quick athletic SGs or PGs? That's a gimmicky lineup that only gives u an advantage against other poorly constructed teams, 8 seed lockdown is exactly right...

Jennings & Redick can guard them. Ellis & Brandon guard them now and we are a top 10 defensive team. Redick & Smith are better scorers then Moute & Ellis so our offense will improve as well. That lineup has two elite defenders and shot blockers, 2 great outside shooters, and Brandon who is a good 3 point shooter and could get hot and win you any game.[/quote]


What I'm learning here is that Redic have more then it all.

[aboveAverage]

Didn't read all the comments, but HELL to the Fing NO on this offer. That's a garbage proposal by Orlando. We lose a first rounder and a cheap elite defender for a half year rental of a role player?

I'll stop watching any Bucks if Hammond makes that deal.

[Bucksfans1and2]

Sanders wins you games. Elite Defensive Anchors are hell valuable.

Sanders will win you about 6-7 games by himself unless he has Chris Paul as his point guard. Ersan maybe 7-8 games. They would still need an uber efficient player like Dunleavy next to them and a ball dominant low turnover low efficiency to get to playoff worthiness. This isn't even discussing if other teams like the Cavs, Raptors, or Pistons take a leap next year.

Jennings wins you 4, Ersan wins you 7, Sanders wins you 7, Dunleavy wins you 4, Henson wins you 3. You get up to about 35 wins when you look at the entire team. Shooting for the 8th seed, getting the 9th seed.

[crkone]

A rough winshare estimate puts us at about 4 extra wins, but I feel it would be a bit more since JJ contributes to about one quarter of Orlando's wins by himself.

What does the winshare estimate give Lebron and Wade in that heartstopping 1st round match up with Redick rather than LRMAM on the floor? 80 - 100 - 120 more points.

Does winshare have an embarrassment measurement for playoff humiliation?

What does this have to do with anything? If the Bucks go on a run, they won't be an 8th seed with this year's terrible EC. This may show that the Bucks could be in a decent win now position. If they stay where they are, the Bucks will get destroyed by Miami and Smith and Redick will bolt leaving the Bucks in a possible tanking situation.

[paulpressey25]

Jennings & Redick can guard them. Ellis & Brandon guard them now and we are a top 10 defensive team. Redick & Smith are better scorers then Moute & Ellis so our offense will improve as well. That lineup has two elite defenders and shot blockers, 2 great outside shooters, and Brandon who is a good 3 point shooter and could get hot and win you any game.

I agree with this. Put aside the age and contract issues, I think we're a better team tomorrow with adding those two guys and hypothetically subtracting Monta, Moute, Dalembert who might go out in these deals.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

BTW, does anybody think Josh Smith gives anything near full effort in Milwaukee??

This is totally a Gary Payton situation in waiting.

Don't like the comparison since Ellis is way closer to Payton than he is Allen. The reason the GP trade sucked balls is that Allen actually liked Milwaukee, was young, talented, and popular. Another thing wrong with your statement is assuming GP didn't try because he was in Milwaukee. GP decline was due to his age as you can tell by his time in LA. He wasn't completely opposed to Milwaukee and heard he was willing to resign before we canned Karl.

[whatthe_buck!?]

BTW, does anybody think Josh Smith gives anything near full effort in Milwaukee??

This is totally a Gary Payton situation in waiting.

+1000
Like I said, this board needs u man, sh*t it needs all the voices of reason it can get. Just to be clear though, I'm not claiming to be a voice of reason...

[Max Green]

quote="Bucksfans1and2"]

let's just say for the sake of the argument we overpay out all three. better lineup than we have now at least... i mean don't get me wrong it's overpaying but it's not a bad lineup.

bj
redick
ers
smith
sanders

Locked into the 8th seed for the length of those deals. Might as well deal Henson.

Yeah right, we are the 8th seed right now, and adding Redick & Smith would be a significant upgrade over Moute & Ellis. We be locked in to fighting for the 4th/5th seed.

For how much longer? Maybe you get up to the 5th seed next year. Then Smith and Reddick start to decline and you're stuck with them.[/quote]

Redick's game doesn't rely on athleticism so I'm not worried about him at all, and Smith just turned 27 and isn't injury prone, he can play at least 3-4 more years at a high level.

[Max Green]

quote="Bucksfans1and2"]

let's just say for the sake of the argument we overpay out all three. better lineup than we have now at least... i mean don't get me wrong it's overpaying but it's not a bad lineup.

bj
redick
ers
smith
sanders

Locked into the 8th seed for the length of those deals. Might as well deal Henson.

Yeah right, we are the 8th seed right now, and adding Redick & Smith would be a significant upgrade over Moute & Ellis. We be locked in to fighting for the 4th/5th seed.

For how much longer? Maybe you get up to the 5th seed next year. Then Smith and Reddick start to decline and you're stuck with them.[/quote]

Redick's game doesn't rely on athleticism so I'm not worried about him at all, and Smith just turned 27 and isn't injury prone, he can play at least 3-4 more years at a high level.

[Max Green]

quote="Bucksfans1and2"]

let's just say for the sake of the argument we overpay out all three. better lineup than we have now at least... i mean don't get me wrong it's overpaying but it's not a bad lineup.

bj
redick
ers
smith
sanders

Locked into the 8th seed for the length of those deals. Might as well deal Henson.

Yeah right, we are the 8th seed right now, and adding Redick & Smith would be a significant upgrade over Moute & Ellis. We be locked in to fighting for the 4th/5th seed.

For how much longer? Maybe you get up to the 5th seed next year. Then Smith and Reddick start to decline and you're stuck with them.[/quote]

Redick's game doesn't rely on athleticism so I'm not worried about him at all, and Smith just turned 27 and isn't injury prone, he can play at least 3-4 more years at a high level.

[raysbookclub]

I wouldn't mind the Ellis for Josh Smith trade, but this Orlando trade is bad. If the Ellis-Smith trade happens, does this one automatically happen since we need a guard? Hope we have other trade possibilities for getting a guard or two.

[Bucksfans1and2]

BTW, does anybody think Josh Smith gives anything near full effort in Milwaukee??

This is totally a Gary Payton situation in waiting.

Doubtful. He'd be mr. Nice guy and try to up his value then bash Milwaukee back handedly after he's gone.

I seriously don't think he's that smart. I think he'd be unhappy and he's the sort that says and acts exactly how he feels.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Sanders wins you games. Elite Defensive Anchors are hell valuable.

Sanders will win you about 6-7 games by himself unless he has Chris Paul as his point guard. Ersan maybe 7-8 games. They would still need an uber efficient player like Dunleavy next to them and a ball dominant low turnover low efficiency to get to playoff worthiness. This isn't even discussing if other teams like the Cavs, Raptors, or Pistons take a leap next year.

Jennings wins you 4, Ersan wins you 7, Sanders wins you 7, Dunleavy wins you 4, Henson wins you 3. You get up to about 35 wins when you look at the entire team. Shooting for the 8th seed, getting the 9th seed.

If it was a true tank, which I would guess is the plan if we weren't signing other FAs*, I assume we let MDJ walk and same with Jennings (or match and hope you can trade him come Dec).

Also, you unleash Gooden who will help you lose games.

[whatthe_buck!?]

BTW, does anybody think Josh Smith gives anything near full effort in Milwaukee??

This is totally a Gary Payton situation in waiting.

Don't like the comparison since Ellis is way closer to Payton than he is Allen. The reason the GP trade sucked balls is that Allen actually liked Milwaukee, was young, talented, and popular. Another thing wrong with your statement is assuming GP didn't try because he was in Milwaukee. GP decline was due to his age as you can tell by his time in LA. He wasn't completely opposed to Milwaukee and heard he was willing to resign before we canned Karl.

Ok but why would u want to trade one guy who doesn't like Milwaukee enough to give full effort for another?? Why wouldn't u argue against trading Ellis for Smith and instead advocate trading Ellis for a guy who's gonna be happy enough in Milwaukee to care and to try? That is unless u don't think Ellis can fetch a good player in return that doesn't have those kind of professionalism issues...

[sneakerdust]

Redick's game doesn't rely on athleticism so I'm not worried about him at all,

I'll use this line on my wife. Hope its as effective as youre selling it.