Poll: Would you trade Giannis for Parker or Wiggins?

[M-C-G]

I think if Giannis would have gone to college this season instead of the NBA, he'd be firmly in that Tier 1 of this draft.

He literally translated almost every flash of brilliance from those Greek 2nd Division to the NBA as an 18 year old. He definitely got worn down over the season, but I think the college pace of play would have suited him better, and left him stronger throughout the year. Additionally, his coach would have built the offense around him, and I think he would have had a very similar year to a guy like Lamar Odom who ended up 4 in a really good draft.

He may not have come in as a big name recruit like these other guys, but I have no doubt he would have been a holy terror on a college basketball court and been a better prospect than Kidd-Gilchrist which went at 2 or 3. I get this is a better draft class, but Giannis is a special player that could have been a crazy hype machine in college basketball.

[msiris]

Hammond is overrated as a drafter. Zero NBA All-Stars. Zero NBA 1st Team. Yes he has been fine from where he has drafted. Hard to screw up with the number 2 pick. He's average at best.

[Treebeard]

So let me get this straight... are we blaming those things on Hammond or on Kohl? I'm confused.

It seems like everyone here wants to rip Kohl for being an idiot, but then also apply all of the same blame to the GMs. Which one is it?

If choices were all Hammond, with not meddling, then he did well on the draft and sucked swamp water everywhere else. With the one notable exception of the Jennings/Knight/Middleton deal.

If Kohl & company overrode Hammond for more than one of those deals the ended with: Gooden, re-up of Salmons, Jackson in, Jackson out, then Hammond was utterly ineffective as a leader.

Either way, the larger body of work is pretty weak over 6 years.

[Newz]

Hammond is overrated as a drafter. Zero NBA All-Stars. Zero NBA 1st Team. Yes he has been fine from where he has drafted. Hard to screw up with the number 2 pick. He's average at best.

I'm not sure if you've heard... but we have an elite interior defender and a 7'0" Scottie Pippen on our roster. That seems pretty damn amazing considering he didn't even take those guys in the top 10.

[LUKE23]

I fully expect NBA GM's everywhere to draft NBA 1st team players at picks 8, 10, 15, 19, 14, and 15, personally. Was that a serioius statement? I hope not.

We've all had this argument several times. GM's are evaluated based on their picks vs. draft slot. That's the only way you can do it. Otherwise, the top pick drafting GM's are always way better. Common sense.

I'm not really going to debate Giannis. I'm more excited about him than any player we have drafted since Ray. If others don't see much, that's fine. We'll see who is right.

[ReasonablySober]

Hammond is overrated as a drafter. Zero NBA All-Stars. Zero NBA 1st Team. Yes he has been fine from where he has drafted. Hard to screw up with the number 2 pick. He's average at best.

This has been debunked time and time again. Even getting rotational players consistently from where he's picked has made him well above average at drafting. 2013 saw some of his picks regress, but I'm inclined to believe coaching has had a hand in it.

[msiris]

Hammond is overrated as a drafter. Zero NBA All-Stars. Zero NBA 1st Team. Yes he has been fine from where he has drafted. Hard to screw up with the number 2 pick. He's average at best.

I'm not sure if you've heard... but we have an elite interior defender and a 7'0" Scottie Pippen on our roster. That seems pretty damn amazing considering he didn't even take those guys in the top 10.

Hey we got 15 wins last year.

[El Duderino]

Vote is now 80-77 in favor of no trade.

The reason this thread and poll is interesting is that the consensus on this board regarding an issue is usually correct, and I'm trying to see where things shake out. We usually don't have polls this tight.

Really good debate in here. I usually don't like the YouTube videos, but will admit the one that Ayt posted was ridiculously compelling. Haven't changed my vote yet but might.

PP, I don't think the 80-77 count is accurate. This assumes people who voted for Parker, say, would also trade for Wiggins. Conversely, people who voted for Wiggins, would also accept Parker. This is an assumption, but the way the poll is constructed doesn't give this as a fact. There needs to be another category. Whereas, there are definitively 85 people who simply wouldn't trade Giannis for either one. Or at least this is how I see it. Am I off-base?

Yea, i wouldn't trade Giannis for Parker, but Wiggins would be a much tougher call.

FWIW, i really question if Giannis will ever become enough of a scorer to enter that superstar level, more likely he becomes a very unique player who is good at a wide variety of things. That said, i see the odds being very slim that Parker ever becomes a superstar given his defensive shortcomings and while i like Wiggins better than Parker, his offensive game needs refinement. If that happens though, he could be great.

[Treebeard]

I don't think there's a GM in the league who would offer Wiggins or Parker for Giannis. I'm not trying to be the voice of doom about Giannis and I'm not ignoring the skill set he possesses. But you guys really seem to be overrating him. I hope he becomes half as good as some of you seem to think he is. That would make him an excellent pick and a core piece for the future.

I didn't post on this forum or read it much during the year... so I think I avoided getting caught up on the hype train. I admit that I only watched 5-10 games last year and from what I saw I really liked Giannis. I think he is a very exciting defensive player who makes some unbelievable plays due to his length and athletic ability.

(snip)
I had the opposite reaction. Like you, I watched few Bucks games and almost never posted here during the season. I was aware of the Giannis hype, though, but when I watched him I always came away disappointed. I could see the skill set and it was intriguing but what I saw him actually do on the court failed to wow me. As I posted in another thread, when I saw Tobes as a rookie I was immediately blown away by what I saw. I never had that feeling with Giannis. That doesn't mean Giannis sucks or I think he sucks or anything of that nature. It just means in my extremely limited viewings he didn't do anything on the court that wowed me.
quote]

With Harris, i saw a guy who could score, but I saw a lot of weaknesses on defense, but never anything that blew me away in his too brief time in Milwaukee. With Giannis, I see a lot of rookie mistakes, but enough crazy great individual plays and short sequnces of spectacular play, that I beleive if he does put it all together; that he will be an all star before long. The Bucks should never have traded Harris for Reddick - that was stupid then and now. I would have the same feeling about any Giannis trade right now. I think he has a higher likelihood of acheiving his potential than many other highly praised young guys.

[TroyD92]

I'd keep Hammond on as head of scouting.

[msiris]

Hammond is overrated as a drafter. Zero NBA All-Stars. Zero NBA 1st Team. Yes he has been fine from where he has drafted. Hard to screw up with the number 2 pick. He's average at best.

This has been debunked time and time again. Even getting rotational players consistently from where he's picked has made him well above average at drafting. 2013 saw some of his picks regress, but I'm inclined to believe coaching has had a hand in it.

Is it really that hard to find rotational players? Larry had one good year and got a good deal. Then the wheels fell off. We will not know anything about Giannis for a few more years. Who else is there?

[Aaron It Out]

Stats are not a perfect form of analysis but no such form exists. But stats do serve a purpose. If they were completely "stupid" no one would ever use them for anything. As is the case with all data, context is key. I have admitted on several occasions I did not see Giannis enough to form a more fully comprehensive view of the player I think he can be. So I don't have enough information at my disposal to offer anything more. When that time comes I will feel more comfortable expanding upon my commentary. Until then, the stats will have to do whether people like it or not.

You are literally admitting that you don't know what you are talking about but you continue to say that we should trade him, despite the people here who DID watch him night and and night out, AND have the same stats at their disposal (but they don't care so much about them, because they see what he can do on the court, not just in a box score).

Again, the most telling thing here is that the people who are most adamant about trading Giannis are ones didn't watch more than a few games and are otherwise completely relying on stats while also completely ignoring all other factors that come into play. This game isn't played in a vacuum.

I thought his board didn't like it when people rely on stats while watching as often (or less) than a casual fan.

[Newz]

I think it's amusing that you think Europa and I are demanding to have Giannis traded or something.

[Aaron It Out]

I never said anything about demanding, but saying you would "absolutely" trade him and that "it's the only sensible answer" is pretty **** stupid when you have barely watched him play.

[Wooderson]

I think for some people there's added utility in watching a completely unknown guy like Giannis grow before their eyes. There's something more satisfying about about it happening organically and unexpectedly as opposed to a top draft pick who's expected to be a stud right away. Add in Giannis's personality and that aspect is enhanced even more.

[theFireBlanket]

Hammond is overrated as a drafter. Zero NBA All-Stars. Zero NBA 1st Team. Yes he has been fine from where he has drafted. Hard to screw up with the number 2 pick. He's average at best.

I'm not sure if you've heard... but we have an elite interior defender and a 7'0" Scottie Pippen on our roster. That seems pretty damn amazing considering he didn't even take those guys in the top 10.

Hey we got 15 wins last year.

With elite interior defender MIA for the majority of the season and Giantet"Pippen"po not handling the ball or being effectively set up for the second half of the season (thanks to Drew, Sessions-Adrien, and Knight).

[smauss]

Well, getting back to the original question: Yes, I'd trade him for either. I think that there is something about the draft that is very telling in our responses to the question. Here we are with a very, very talented draft where a player going top 5 last year didn't make Tier 3 on this years pre-draft comparisons, but we would rather keep the asset we know picked 15th in last years draft. Now did we just get the steal of the draft last year (Hammond=genius)? Are we just more comfortable with a known asset that has endeared himself to the community, rather than the unknown that is rated much higher? Is this draft just plain overrated? Or is the draft, even with all the stats, film, analysis, and comparisons, still more of a crap-shoot than we really want to admit?

[theFireBlanket]

The potential oozes out of all of his pores.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_BOkyq_H3E[/youtube]

The Bucks did a nice little audio edit on this version of Giannis blocking Anthony Davis :

http://www.nba.com/bucks/video/2014/02/ ... ov-3145512

no edit:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWqhO54zYzk[/youtube]

[Newz]

I never said anything about demanding, but saying you would "absolutely" trade him and that "it's the only sensible answer" is pretty **** stupid when you have barely watched him play.

I never said that it's the only sensible answer. Maybe someone else did though.

I would trade him for any of the guys in the top 3. I would say as much as I only watched him 10-15 times last year that I think I got a pretty damn good look at him. I honestly think the bigger problem is that:

1. Milwaukee hasn't had a great young player in quite some time.
2. People here are starved for any young player to get behind.
3. Giannis has a fairly unique physical profile and makes a lot of eye opening plays because of his athletic ability.
4. Because of that people have hope that he's going to be good.
5. That hope that he will be good is taken from hope and then presented as fact on this forum... and if you disagree with it, then you are a clueless moron.
6. So because it's the opinion of most that he'll be good, that is starting to morph into him being great.
7. Now he's a once in a lifetime talent unlike anything we've ever seen before.
8. Then it spirals out of control and before you know it the worst that he can possibly be is Scottie Pippen.

It's cool. I got caught up in the same thing with Brandon Jennings for half of a season. Obviously Giannis will end up being better than that guy... but I think five years from now or so we look back on the ridiculous comparisons of Giannis to Pippen and laugh... just like we did with the Jennings/Paul thread and the Bogut/Duncan thread.

[birlik54]

Thinking about it logically I would say yes, I would trade him for either. But a large part of me is just so damn intrigued by what Giannis can possibly do that I don't want him realizing that potential with another team. I'm just so interested in the possibilities.

I think that Wiggins and Parker are both more likely to reach the potential that has been set out for them, but if Giannis actually meets anything close to his potential he could be something else.