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PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook!

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Matches Malone
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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#181 » by Matches Malone » Thu Nov 14, 2024 6:02 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:
Maybe something to consider when throwing out numbers for their two-man game. It seems clunkier under Doc even if everyone wants to throw around all these positive offensive metrics going all the way to the start of Dames Bucks tenure. Not everything is as black and white as everyone makes it seem.


Valid. My counter would be - if Doc cannot get a trio to work that was operating at a +17.5 clip, what evidence is there that he's going to get a lesser set of offensive players to work if you make a Dame trade?

You probably couldn’t which is why I wouldn’t want to trade him. Maybe you counter with more defense but then you’re back to the grinding out games mode again. I sometimes think Gianni’s prefers the harder, grinding out way lol.
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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#182 » by machu46 » Thu Nov 14, 2024 6:04 pm

emunney wrote:
machu46 wrote:
MissKhriddleton wrote:Trade Dame for what? The team is completely devoid of talent around Giannis, specifically offensive talent, and you want to trade Dame lol? The offense was gross yesterday, it took a historic performance to beat the Pistons, including overcoming a 99.36% chance of someone making at least 1 of 2 free throws. Trade everyone but Dame.


Putting my nerd hat on for a sec, I think it's technically more like a 90-94% chance depending on what you think of Holland as a free throw shooter, but yeah, our need for offense is pretty obvious. If you're super optimistic about it, Green had an off shooting night and we should theoretically get a boost when Middleton returns someday.

Delon Wright and Jackson provide so little on the offensive end though, and even guys like Trent and Green who can provide shooting are pretty limited overall.


Holland should have never been on the line, but also let's not pretend like this is a game of pure chance. He wasn't close on either of them. He damn near Giannised the first one. The young man choked.


That was gnarly miss on the first one. He seemed to be in disbelief lol. Can't remember the last time I saw someone look that outwardly shook.
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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#183 » by soxperry » Thu Nov 14, 2024 6:06 pm

Prez wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:FWIW, GA/Dame was the 10th best 2-man lineup last year (+10.5), if you put cutoff at 1,500 minutes. There were 75 two-man lineups that qualified.


What are their numbers together just under Doc? Anything change going from Griff to him?

Post Griffin firing the net rating for Dame/Giannis 2-man lineup was +11.5


Going to throw a wrench into this by reminding everyone that our strength of schedule under Griff was one of the very easiest in the nba and under Doc was one of the absolute hardest

I dont know how anyone could accurately compare the two segments without taking that into account (as well as a multitude of other factors)
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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#184 » by KidA24 » Thu Nov 14, 2024 6:07 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:I guess my question for all the Trade Dame folks is, if he's not a good offensive pairing/fit with Giannis, then who is? A theoretical modern day Oscar Robertson? Or are you guys really pining for the days of us having to grind out a 108 to 106 Offensive-Rating type slugfest for 4 straight playoff rounds, but now with worse coaching?


You just posted Doc's fantasy.
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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#185 » by sidney lanier » Thu Nov 14, 2024 6:49 pm

machu46 wrote:
emunney wrote:
machu46 wrote:
Putting my nerd hat on for a sec, I think it's technically more like a 90-94% chance depending on what you think of Holland as a free throw shooter, but yeah, our need for offense is pretty obvious. If you're super optimistic about it, Green had an off shooting night and we should theoretically get a boost when Middleton returns someday.

Delon Wright and Jackson provide so little on the offensive end though, and even guys like Trent and Green who can provide shooting are pretty limited overall.


Holland should have never been on the line, but also let's not pretend like this is a game of pure chance. He wasn't close on either of them. He damn near Giannised the first one. The young man choked.


That was gnarly miss on the first one. He seemed to be in disbelief lol. Can't remember the last time I saw someone look that outwardly shook.


It was his inner sense of justice that stayed his hand. Shows character.

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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#186 » by Dick Tate » Thu Nov 14, 2024 6:52 pm

Brewhoopfan wrote:Promising: AJAX catching under the hoop and dunking! More of that, please.

He also finished a fast break against the Raptors. Progress!
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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#187 » by emunney » Thu Nov 14, 2024 7:37 pm

Dick Tate wrote:
Brewhoopfan wrote:Promising: AJAX catching under the hoop and dunking! More of that, please.

He also finished a fast break against the Raptors. Progress!


Also since he joined the rotation, Bucks have a team best net rating of +9.9 when he's on the floor and he's doing almost nothing recorded in boxscores. If you didn't watch him play, you'd assume he was a massive drain, an anti-player annihilating his own teammates.

/36 from Memphis on:

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AST: 3.1
REB: 4.7
STL: 1.6
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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#188 » by emunney » Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:05 pm

You might say he'd run through a brick wall for his teammates.
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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#189 » by RogerMurdock » Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:20 pm

I still can't believe the ball don't lie moment. One night, a few years from now, I'm going to jolt awake in a panic, thinking he made one.
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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#190 » by Bernman » Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:24 pm

Doc's really being let off the hook for not preserving timeouts to challenge that final play of regulation. This was the 1st Bucks' game credited as a clutch win, against 3 losses. Last yr the Bucks were 2nd under Griffin, & finished the season 9th.
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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#191 » by VooDoo7 » Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:46 pm

Rewatching the game again today. Watching Giannis get a little choked-up during the post-game interview.

I think people take for granted what we have in this man. Generational talent. Likely may never be a better Buck ever again. Wants to be here. He absolutely LOVES this city. He started his family in this city. He loves the people he's met over the past 10+ years in this city. All the talk from the national media about Giannis asking to be traded etc PISSES HIM OFF. Big time (I'm told). So it's easy to see why he got emotional last night during those MVP chants. He just wants the city to be proud of him.

We need to stop taking this guy for granted and enjoy him while we can. These days aren't gonna last forever.

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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#192 » by mediocrityrules » Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:51 pm

I feel just like with the 'Bucks in Six' merch, there needs to be a 'Ball Don't Lie' range, with a dejected/in disbelief Holland on there somewhere.
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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#193 » by ShootingtheJ » Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:01 pm

-Jragon- wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:My immediate thought on witnessing one of the greatest "put the team on my back" performances ever by Giannis:

"Hell yeah, the fanbase deserves this!"

Immediately seeing a flood of "trade Dame" posts after we beat two lottery teams to climb to 4-8:

"Yeah.....the fanbase deserves this"



Right, the Lakers used to get regular season win streaks without Kobe and guys would get excited by some more shots and touches... but dude got them 5 rings; were they really better without Kobe? Would they have gotten those rings? Nah lol



One huge difference, Kobe was a top defender, not a terrible one.
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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#194 » by MissKhriddleton » Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:29 pm

machu46 wrote:
emunney wrote:
machu46 wrote:
Putting my nerd hat on for a sec, I think it's technically more like a 90-94% chance depending on what you think of Holland as a free throw shooter, but yeah, our need for offense is pretty obvious. If you're super optimistic about it, Green had an off shooting night and we should theoretically get a boost when Middleton returns someday.

Delon Wright and Jackson provide so little on the offensive end though, and even guys like Trent and Green who can provide shooting are pretty limited overall.


Holland should have never been on the line, but also let's not pretend like this is a game of pure chance. He wasn't close on either of them. He damn near Giannised the first one. The young man choked.


That was gnarly miss on the first one. He seemed to be in disbelief lol. Can't remember the last time I saw someone look that outwardly shook.

Agree it's not pure chance but for the sake of nerd hats:

Holland was 12/13 on the year = 92.3%, which would mean a 100-92.3 chance of missing one free throw = 7.7%.

Odds of missing twice in a row would equal 7.7% * 7.7% or .077 *.077 = .00529 * 100 = .5929% chance.

100 - .5929 = 99.4071 or 99.41% chance of making at least one free throw. Could be wrong, haven't taught math in awhile.

ETA: G-League he shot 16/20, combine that with 12/13 this year and he's 28/33 or 84.8%, odds of making at least one at that rate is 97.7% I believe. 8-)
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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#195 » by drone3 » Thu Nov 14, 2024 10:18 pm

emunney wrote:
Dick Tate wrote:
Brewhoopfan wrote:Promising: AJAX catching under the hoop and dunking! More of that, please.

He also finished a fast break against the Raptors. Progress!


Also since he joined the rotation, Bucks have a team best net rating of +9.9 when he's on the floor and he's doing almost nothing recorded in boxscores. If you didn't watch him play, you'd assume he was a massive drain, an anti-player annihilating his own teammates.

/36 from Memphis on:

PTS: 5.9
AST: 3.1
REB: 4.7
STL: 1.6
BLK: 0.8
TOV: 2.9
PF: 4.7
Ajax is such a force. Getting under Cades grill was a delight.

Regular cutting for easy bunnies will increase his confidence on O
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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#196 » by jimmybones » Thu Nov 14, 2024 10:28 pm

soxperry wrote:I think if we are committed to Dame, the answer might be Giannis going all out on defense and giving Dame the Portland keys on offense with Giannis doing his thing when Dame sits


This sounds beautiful in theory but will Giannis buy into that? This is not questioning Giannis heart, selflessness or desire to win. I think he plays with his most killer instinct when he is asserting himself with urgency. This good comes with some bad when he forces it. But on a mission Giannis is the best Giannis and damn fun to watch.

I can't put my finger on what exactly it is, but it just feels like we don't see the best versions of both Dame and Giannis when they play together. It feels like they're both bashfully not trying to step on the others toes and it limits both of their opportunities to go on heaters that can carry a team for a quarter, or a half, or a game.

If we're committed to making this pairing work, part of me feels like they should just segment off quarters where one is Batman and the other is Robin. One clear focal point for stretches, if that guy is absolutely cooking you ride it. Start the game with Giannis as the go man and Dame is primarily a glorified decoy, Dame takes over when Giannis gets his first breather.

In a perfect world this is way more fluid than that and maybe with time it gets there. We have two guys that I believe are best when they are the clear cut focal point. Both capable of going on extended stretches that win games single handedly. Splitting this duty reduces the chances off either to really get cooking but gives the added benefit of having two dudes capable of carrying the bulk an entire game and lowers the likelihood of running one into the ground having them do it every night.

I don't know man, I see two great players not playing at their peak together and it just feels clunky far too often.
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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#197 » by sidney lanier » Thu Nov 14, 2024 10:31 pm

Here's the Last Two Minute report on the ball don't lie moment:

Antetokounmpo (MIL) cleanly blocks Holland II (DET) during his shot attempt at the rim and any ensuing contact is incidental. The foul call is incorrect, but officials trigger a replay review to determine the timing of the foul call. After communicating with the Replay Center, it is determined that the foul call occurred before the expiration of the game clock and the clock is reset to 00:01.0. The foul call could not be changed to a no-call at replay and only the timing of the foul call is a reviewable matter.

https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0022400223


Why this couldn't be changed at replay is a mystery to me.
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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#198 » by tydett » Thu Nov 14, 2024 10:32 pm

RogerMurdock wrote:I still can't believe the ball don't lie moment. One night, a few years from now, I'm going to jolt awake in a panic, thinking he made one.


Honestly surprised you were watching instead of digging a hole for a neighbor's dead hamster.
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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#199 » by jimmybones » Thu Nov 14, 2024 10:42 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:I guess my question for all the Trade Dame folks is, if he's not a good offensive pairing/fit with Giannis, then who is? A theoretical modern day Oscar Robertson? Or are you guys really pining for the days of us having to grind out a 108 to 106 Offensive-Rating type slugfest for 4 straight playoff rounds, but now with worse coaching?


I think the perfect Robin or pairing with Giannis is someone capable of being a killer off the ball but also capable of being an initiator for stretches, but doesn't always need the ball in their hands. In other words, prime Khris. :D :(
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Re: PG Pistons - Giannis & Brook! 

Post#200 » by emunney » Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:07 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:I guess my question for all the Trade Dame folks is, if he's not a good offensive pairing/fit with Giannis, then who is? A theoretical modern day Oscar Robertson? Or are you guys really pining for the days of us having to grind out a 108 to 106 Offensive-Rating type slugfest for 4 straight playoff rounds, but now with worse coaching?


Ah. We should trade him for Khris.
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