Giannis' Development part 3 - SI Cover/Article - Page 35

[Magic Giannison]

Looks like it, it's a pretty extreme advanced stats based take. I definitely wouldn't go that far but I don't think it's totally stupid. I think in general the idea that Giannis was single handedly carrying this team and that we sucked and couldn't do anything without him was way off.

So just because a stupid team based +- advance stat says Giannis doesn't impact the Bucks we should take it as granted and not consider that advance stat is stupid?

I mean the guy lead the team in all major categories ,become first in NBA history in top 20 in all major stats and we call that guy that have little to no impact because a **** RAPM stat says so ?

How can anyone consider themselves a basketball analytic even take such absurd data for serious ?

Giannis may not single handenly carried the team but he was by FAR the biggest reason of our success .

The fact that RAPM showing an injured Middleton that came over after injury and was BAD most of time have better impact than Giannis is hilarious.


I know im a Giannis fanboy but noway in hell this RAPM crap can be taken seriously by analytic.

I never once said I agreed with his RAPM rankings. Just that you're getting carried away by his box score numbers to a similar extent that they are with his advanced numbers. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle, that he's an awesome player, an all-star starter and all-NBA type guy but not quite a superstar impact player yet.

We are talking about a stat that makes Bogut,Fry,Marjanovic ,Marvin Williams and many more being better players than GIannis and Gordon Hayward in terms of impact that isnt remotely close to comparing someones box score stats,far from it.Box score stats have far more credibility when it comes to judging individual than a stat that says that B diddy had mor eimpact form 2001 to 2015 than Kobe Bryant lol or that Tonmy Parket had same impact as Chris duhon.....


Giannis has superstar impact, his play and impact prove that and no nitpick crappy +- irrelevant metric will make anyone think otherwise.

I don't understand why you try to donwplay Giannis impact when we had a half year Jabari, 2 rookies starting and a bad Middleton of the injuries on the team , nowhere near the playoffs we would've been if ti wasn't for Giannis.

[AussieBuck]

1. Single year RAPM is noisy as ****.
2. The crazy Kidd throw **** against the wall lineup style adding Giannis glue isn't going to lead to optimal impact results for Giannis

[Prez]

Spoiler:

So just because a stupid team based +- advance stat says Giannis doesn't impact the Bucks we should take it as granted and not consider that advance stat is stupid?

I mean the guy lead the team in all major categories ,become first in NBA history in top 20 in all major stats and we call that guy that have little to no impact because a **** RAPM stat says so ?

How can anyone consider themselves a basketball analytic even take such absurd data for serious ?

Giannis may not single handenly carried the team but he was by FAR the biggest reason of our success .

The fact that RAPM showing an injured Middleton that came over after injury and was BAD most of time have better impact than Giannis is hilarious.


I know im a Giannis fanboy but noway in hell this RAPM crap can be taken seriously by analytic.

I never once said I agreed with his RAPM rankings. Just that you're getting carried away by his box score numbers to a similar extent that they are with his advanced numbers. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle, that he's an awesome player, an all-star starter and all-NBA type guy but not quite a superstar impact player yet.

We are talking about a stat that makes Bogut,Fry,Marjanovic ,Marvin Williams and many more being better players than GIannis and Gordon Hayward in terms of impact that isnt remotely close to comparing someones box score stats,far from it.Box score stats have far more credibility when it comes to judging individual than a stat that says that B diddy had mor eimpact form 2001 to 2015 than Kobe Bryant lol or that Tonmy Parket had same impact as Chris duhon.....


Giannis has superstar impact, his play and impact prove that and no nitpick crappy +- irrelevant metric will make anyone think otherwise.

I don't understand why you try to donwplay Giannis impact when we had a half year Jabari, 2 rookies starting and a bad Middleton of the injuries on the team , nowhere near the playoffs we would've been if ti wasn't for Giannis.

Picking out random examples to rip on the stat is just misusing it completely. RAPM like every stat has to be used with context. Minutes, roles, offensive responsibility/defensive burden all matter. Kinda like how TS% is a valuable stat in its proper use but it's stupid to use it to compare for example the scoring ability of a pure athlete/energy big Deandre Jordan and a legit bucket getter like CJ McCollum.

You can't say he has superstar impact and then dismiss all the impact metrics we have. Which by the way, RAPM is not the only stat that doesn't have Giannis as a superstar impact player. Net on/off, net rating on the Bucks, etc..his RPM absolutely was superstar level at one point but it progressively dropped throughout the season and not just through the tough stretch in Jan-Feb but also through our good March. He's awesome, but him having superstar impact is a bit more of a projection than reality right now. Superstar impact is LeBron, Curry, Westbrook type stuff. He's not there yet.

No one is downplaying Giannis' impact like we're calling him some empty stats bum. You're getting way too defensive about this stuff. Someone calling him a borderline all-NBAer really isn't that crazy whatsoever, you're talking 15 all-NBA spots. I personally rank him in that 8-10 range but someone saying he's in like 12-15 is nothing to get pissed about.

[Magic Giannison]

Spoiler:

I never once said I agreed with his RAPM rankings. Just that you're getting carried away by his box score numbers to a similar extent that they are with his advanced numbers. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle, that he's an awesome player, an all-star starter and all-NBA type guy but not quite a superstar impact player yet.

We are talking about a stat that makes Bogut,Fry,Marjanovic ,Marvin Williams and many more being better players than GIannis and Gordon Hayward in terms of impact that isnt remotely close to comparing someones box score stats,far from it.Box score stats have far more credibility when it comes to judging individual than a stat that says that B diddy had mor eimpact form 2001 to 2015 than Kobe Bryant lol or that Tonmy Parket had same impact as Chris duhon.....


Giannis has superstar impact, his play and impact prove that and no nitpick crappy +- irrelevant metric will make anyone think otherwise.

I don't understand why you try to donwplay Giannis impact when we had a half year Jabari, 2 rookies starting and a bad Middleton of the injuries on the team , nowhere near the playoffs we would've been if ti wasn't for Giannis.

Picking out random examples to rip on the stat is just misusing it completely. RAPM like every stat has to be used with context. Minutes, roles, offensive responsibility/defensive burden all matter. Kinda like how TS% is a valuable stat in its proper use but it's stupid to use it to compare for example the scoring ability of a pure athlete/energy big Deandre Jordan and a legit bucket getter like CJ McCollum.

The problem is that this stat is totally irrelevant when it comes to judge individuals, thats the problem, is a team performance stat not individual and i recall **** on it many times in the past and generally the +- because it looks like its just a stat just for the sake for the sake of being a stat, it provides no insightful or important information even com pared to other advanced stats.

You can't say he has superstar impact and then dismiss all the impact metrics we have. Which by the way, RAPM is not the only stat that doesn't have Giannis as a superstar impact player. Net on/off, net rating on the Bucks, etc..his RPM absolutely was superstar level at one point but it progressively dropped throughout the season and not just through the tough stretch in Jan-Feb but also through our good March. He's awesome, but him having superstar impact is much more a projection than reality right now. Superstar impact is LeBron, Curry, Westbrook type stuff. He's not there yet.

You can because RAPM isnt the metric to judge individual performances, its judges whole team and then negatively impacts the players that play the most negatively especially on bad teams.
Explain to me how player A that is positive on BPM,OBM,DPM ,VORP ranks lower than player B that is lower on almost all of them ?

Westbrook is a volume scorer and a guy that everyone steps aside in order to allow him to get rebound and literally hogs the ball and averaged like what 6-7 t/o per game ?, you cannot compare it to Giannis because he is more of a team player and is a much much better defender.
All these team based +- based stats are bad at judging individual performance because they are dependent from factors that individual can impact. Put Giannis on Warriors/Cavs and his RAPm will skyrocket.

No one is downplaying Giannis' impact like we're calling him some empty stats bum. You're getting way too defensive about this stuff. Someone calling him a borderline all-NBAer really isn't that crazy whatsoever, you're talking 15 all-NBA spots. I personally rank him in that 8-10 range but someone saying he's in like 12-15 is nothing to get pissed about.

I understand being humble and all but promoting the humble notion when others are simply wrong and especially on a joke stat makes no sense, especially when that stat isnt even used by teams or taken seriously?

Someone calling Giannis borderline ALL NBer is either trolling or someone that hasnt watched him play.

Again, the guy is one of the 5 EVER guys to lead team in ALL major stats.
He is the only player in NBA history that is in TOP 20 in all major categories,THE ONLY! You that very well, i know it everyone know it and you know calling a player like that a borderline all nab when the whole league is salivating and him and calling him the next King after Lebron is ridiculous.

You shouldn't be humble with the people that say these stuff and bring as evidence a joke stat advance stat that totally misses context when it comes to individual impact.

Have a read of this as wel
l https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2016/05/04/real-plus-minus-the-bogus-new-stat-everyones-using

I did read it last year and found it fantastic.

[emunney]

1. Single year RAPM is noisy as ****.
2. The crazy Kidd throw **** against the wall lineup style adding Giannis glue isn't going to lead to optimal impact results for Giannis

3. Almost any player in the league would be an unqualified disaster trying to play the outsized role Giannis plays for us.

[Prez]

The problem is that this stat is totally irrelevant when it comes to judge individuals, thats the problem, is a team performance stat not individual and i recall **** on it many times in the past and generally the +- because it looks like its just a stat just for the sake for the sake of being a stat, it provides no insightful or important information even com pared to other advanced stats.

You can because RAPM isnt the metric to judge individual performances, its judges whole team and then negatively impacts the players that play the most negatively especially on bad teams.
Explain to me how player A that is positive on BPM,OBM,DPM ,VORP ranks lower than player B that is lower on almost all of them ?

You're basically mentioning one metric. OBPM/DBPM are just components of BPM, and VORP is a just a minutes based expansion/conversion of BPM. You conveniently want to dismiss RAPM but will talk up BPM because it fits your views. Are you going to pick apart the issue with Westbrook's DBPM being higher than Rudy Gobert's, despite Westbrook being a crap defender and Gobert being arguably the best defender in the league?

And you totally ignored all the other metrics I mentioned...

Spoiler:

Westbrook is a volume scorer and a guy that everyone steps aside in order to allow him to get rebound and literally hogs the ball and averaged like what 6-7 t/o per game ?, you cannot compare it to Giannis because he is more of a team player and is a much much better defender.
All these team based +- based stats are bad at judging individual performance because they are dependent from factors that individual can impact. Put Giannis on Warriors/Cavs and his RAPm will skyrocket.

Westbrook is a great scorer and outstanding albeit reckless playmaker. There are flaws in his style of play but his impact is undeniable. OKC by virtually every metric imaginable was consistently horrible without him on the floor and a good team with him on the floor, despite his style of play not always being ideal.

Spoiler:

Someone calling Giannis borderline ALL NBer is either trolling or someone that hasnt watched him play.

It really isn't. Basically calling Giannis roughly a top 15 player or so is not that crazy at all. I have him higher but you're getting worked up over nothing.

Spoiler:

Again, the guy is one of the 5 EVER guys to lead team in ALL major stats.
He is the only player in NBA history that is in TOP 20 in all major categories,THE ONLY! You that very well, i know it everyone know it and you know calling a player like that a borderline all nab when the whole league is salivating and him and calling him the next King after Lebron is ridiculous.

You shouldn't be humble with the people that say these stuff and bring as evidence a joke stat advance stat that totally misses context when it comes to individual impact

The issue is you're basing your views on impact on box score stats that don't actually try to measure impact and dismissing all the ones that do.

[Magic Giannison]

Millbuck, im not conveniently dismissing RAPM, i literally showed you that RAPM contradicts with other Advanced stats like BPM,how can a metric that does that and is purely made as team based metric can be used as an individual metric ?

Are you going to pick apart the issue with Westbrook's DBPM being higher than Rudy Gobert's, despite Westbrook being a crap defender and Gobert being arguably the best defender in the league?

Exactly my point its **** metric along with all its advanced one hence why +- is nothing more of a joke.The fact that it shows Westbrook a better in DBPM than Gobert is ridiculous.

Westbrook is a great scorer and outstanding albeit reckless playmaker. There are flaws in his style of play but his impact is undeniable. OKC by virtually every metric imaginable was consistently horrible without him on the floor and a good team with him on the floor, despite his style of play not always being ideal.

The problem is that Westbrook isn't efficient and commits lots of mistakes which negatively impacts the team yet the advanced metrics favor him because he is literally the guy that has the ball 50% of the time and takes ridiculous amounts of shots and is generally a stats guy and a volume scorer, why isnt efficiency counted then ?

It really isn't. Basically calling Giannis roughly a top 15 player or so is not that crazy at all. I have him higher but you're getting worked up over nothing.

It is crazy, because there are simply not 15 players better than him,from box score viewpoint to advanced stats.
I can call Draymond Green the best player in the league but that would have no basis if i cannot back it up and people saying he is borderline all NBer simple cannot base that on anything as there arent statistically 15 better players than Giannis in the league right now.

The issue is you're basing your views on impact on box score stats that don't actually try to measure impact and dismissing all the ones that do.

Im not , far from it, i just consider box score far better metric for INDIVIDUAL performance than a team based metric as RAPM or any variations of +-. It snot about dismissing, the fact that the metric itself contradicts with other sub metrics . its like me trying to create a metric of BLocks + steals just to promote Giannis as the best defender on the league when that is not true .

[Pachinko_]

LOL
watching a Giannis interview in Greek TV from a couple of weeks ago, he says he has dunked in practice on his tiptoes without jumping

[Magic Giannison]

So according to some GB posters.
KAT easily over Giannis.
Jokic is better than GIannis AD KAT.


LOL

[GFreak34]

Watch on YouTube

[GFreak34]

Watch on YouTube

[The Lazy Potato]

From antetokounbros event.

Watch on YouTube

[yannisk]

highlights from the Antetokoubros event. (Giannis and friends vs 2005 Greek NT)
[url]

Watch on YouTube

[/url]

[GFreak34]

4 years later...

Watch on YouTube

;t=196s

[thomchatt3rton]

I need one of those Antetokounbros T-shirts. It says "we are all bros" on it.

[Magic Giannison]

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1580627#start_here

here we go again, AD doesn't got a supporting cast, nitpicked stats and yada yda.

This NO KG AI has been **** on Giannis for years and still keeping at it.

[Magic Giannison]

You guys remember this? :lol

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1343590&hilit=Giannis#start_here

[imithanos]

You guys remember this? :lol

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1343590&hilit=Giannis#start_here

Only you probably.

[Magic Giannison]

You guys remember this? :lol

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1343590&hilit=Giannis#start_here

Only you probably.

Nah i just dug em up when the NO KG AI guy popped but its hilarious how wrong he was and most of Bucks fans were spot on.

[Magic Giannison]

Read on Twitter

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH