Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Payne Signed

[Bucksmaniac]

Khris is going to be the last player to wear 22 for this franchise. He's got a cadre of vocal haters because he's a 6-8 wing whose dunks are rare and don't feel like dunks should.

It’s really because his money and his role on the team was not ideal for a team aspiring to championships. One of those wasn’t his fault, the other one was determined by him. Also, he brought to mind one of our previously beloved players who had a tough finish to his career, Michael Redd.

[ReasonablySober]

Khris is going to be the last player to wear 22 for this franchise. He's got a cadre of vocal haters because he's a 6-8 wing whose dunks are rare and don't feel like dunks should.

It’s really because his money and his role on the team was not ideal for a team aspiring to championships. One of those wasn’t his fault, the other one was determined by him. Also, he brought to mind one of our previously beloved players who had a tough finish to his career, Michael Redd.

When was this ever true?

[randy84]

I was willing to give up both for Lillard so its a bonus we kept one.

[Bucksmaniac]

Khris is going to be the last player to wear 22 for this franchise. He's got a cadre of vocal haters because he's a 6-8 wing whose dunks are rare and don't feel like dunks should.

It’s really because his money and his role on the team was not ideal for a team aspiring to championships. One of those wasn’t his fault, the other one was determined by him. Also, he brought to mind one of our previously beloved players who had a tough finish to his career, Michael Redd.

When was this ever true?

His contract just after our first year of contention, in 2019, was not much under the max, that of a high end 2nd banana, and he was expected to be a #2 option but between injuries and inconsistent play/mediocre defense, it was hit or miss living up to it. Luckily one of those points he did live up to it was the all important 2021 run.

[Ruben Quevedo]

Midds 24ppg on great efficiency the last time he played = not a good basketball player anymore

Jrue awful efficiency while giving up like 40ppg to Butler = guy the Bucks should have kept who now makes the Celtics favorites

Last two games he went 14-36 from the field, was a big part of both 4th quarter meltdowns, and a complete turnstile on defense.

Nobody covered themselves in glory in that series, but he wasn’t good.

[Prez]

If Jrue was as quick and ferocious defensively as he was in 2020 when we got him, I’d 100% be on board with him being the guy to keep next to Dame. But he’s noticeably slower and worse defensively, which he kinda needs to offset the shooting/scoring efficiency issues.

Khris’ health concerns are real but if he’s healthy I like the ceiling of a Dame/Khris/Giannis trio for the postseason more. We’ve found out very painfully over the years how valuable half court shot creation is in the playoffs, and if we’re talking somewhat comparable players on the whole, stylistically I’d rather have the more playoff resilient half court creator.

I think if Khris stays healthy he’s going to butcher some teams offensively as the 3rd option. Like we’ve seen Khris have these ultra efficient games where he’s just kinda blending in, being a Swiss army knife of sorts offensively and not really forcing anything. When he’s just in the flow and not dealing with a ton of physicality/pressure the dude is a murderer. And he’s basically never going to deal with that pressure again with Dame/Giannis.

Who knows. Maybe the knee is truly **** and this is all a pointless discussion. We’ll see.

[Ruben Quevedo]

Jrue over Khris easily. Jrue was being asked to do too much on offense. I expect he will thrive in Boston focusing on what he's great at, just like he would've here if it were possible to trade Khris instead.

I also just think Khris is not a good basketball player anymore, and even more a poor fit for this team. His field goal % has declined 3 years in a row. His 3pt % has declined 3 years in a row. He doesn't move well without the ball. And perhaps worst of all, his defense is atrocious.

He is an iso player who can make tough shots, and occasionally run a decent pick n roll game when he's not dribbling the ball off his foot or throwing lobs off the shot clock. We don't need that now, because Dame will be taking over those duties. And I think Cam is good enough to be a creator for the 2nd unit.

We'd be *much* better off with a hard-nosed, gritty wing who will be ultra active defensively, relentlessly cut off the ball and attack the glass.

Jrue waived off Giannis and Wes only to continue to get absolutely roasted by Jimmy because Jrue was too damn stupid to figure out that you steer Jimmy left. Beyond inexcusable. He deserves the Celtics overmatched coach. I will not miss him as a player.

Jrue got cooked by jimmy, absolutely. He’s still twice the defender Khris is, which I contend will be more important for this team going forward with Dame and Giannis carrying the load on offense.

[skbucks1985]

The notion, which I've seen repeated in a lot of different places that Jrue's postseason efficiency will increase because he's going to be the 3rd or 4th option is I think pretty facile analysis. I never thought Jrue's struggles were because he was taking on too great an offensive load and he was too much of a defensive focal point for the other team. He struggled because he was missing shots that he was making in the regular season and because he has some shot selection issues. Taking on a lesser offensive load will mitigate those issues, but I don't know why that would necessarily solve them.

[skbucks1985]

This thought just occurred to me, a couple years ago when they were shopping DDV it was rumored that the Celtics were interested but they wanted to trade Schroder and the Bucks wanted Grant Williams. If the trade talks had happened a year later or if the Celtics had soured on Grant a year earlier they probably would've been much more willing to make that deal.

[blazza18]

The offense and fit is going to be easy but Midds has to be at least passable defensively. Hoping there is some truth in him feeling great for the first time in a couple of years because we're going to need him to not be a traffic cone.

[GoldenAntlers]

I don't understand preferring Jrue to Middleton. Like, at all.

they are still mad about Khris>Jabari

I had this conversation at work a few times today. A lot of people don't seem to realize what needing to double team both Dame and Giannis, while leaving Khris open, actually means.

[ReasonablySober]

I'm skeptical that they actually see a lot of double teams.

[tedbrogen]

Midds 24ppg on great efficiency the last time he played = not a good basketball player anymore

Jrue awful efficiency while giving up like 40ppg to Butler = guy the Bucks should have kept who now makes the Celtics favorites

Last two games he went 14-36 from the field, was a big part of both 4th quarter meltdowns, and a complete turnstile on defense.

Nobody covered themselves in glory in that series, but he wasn’t good.

Midds has maybe one bad game out of five against the Heat. Game 4 4-12 14 points 8 assist 6 boards 51TS% +5 (best on the team)

For comparison, Jrue game 4 6-19 14 points 4 assists 7 boards -2 while being the main defender on the guy who put up 56 points.

Midds game 5 was 10-24 but also put up 33 points on a 59TS%. Midds in game five was not the issue. Bud allowing them to go away from Midds to let Giannis and Midds play hot potato at the top of the key was the issue.

I will give Jrue credit in game five for holding Jimmy to 42 points. Perhaps if there had been a game six he might have gotten him into the 30s, but we’ll never know because Jrue missed a clutch free throw that allowed Jimmy to tie the game with a two instead of the Heat needing a 3 with 1 second left.

[tedbrogen]

The offense and fit is going to be easy but Midds has to be at least passable defensively. Hoping there is some truth in him feeling great for the first time in a couple of years because we're going to need him to not be a traffic cone.

Bud’s drop system did Midds no favors. It requires everyone besides Lopez to chase hard around screens. It’s really playing four on five on D to allow Brook to stand at the rim.

Midds has the length to be better in any scheme that doesn’t require him to navigate over/around/through screens.

[drone3]

Thinking back to after the draft I thought we were going to be the Raps part 2. All of a sudden we're looking closer to GSW...but even then they never had a Giannis.

[tedbrogen]

The notion, which I've seen repeated in a lot of different places that Jrue's postseason efficiency will increase because he's going to be the 3rd or 4th option is I think pretty facile analysis. I never thought Jrue's struggles were because he was taking on too great an offensive load and he was too much of a defensive focal point for the other team. He struggled because he was missing shots that he was making in the regular season and because he has some shot selection issues. Taking on a lesser offensive load will mitigate those issues, but I don't know why that would necessarily solve them.

The Heat straight up employed the Bledsoe D on Jrue and helped off him anytime Giannis went near the paint.

[thonnisbeastley]

As one of the biggest Middleton haters on this board, I'd move Jrue over Khris for Dame 10/10 times. Jrue is an absolute stud defender, but at this point he's overrated on that side of the ball and is literally the 2nd worst offensive player in the postseason over the last 3 years. Think about that, the #1 seed has had the 2nd worst offensive player shooting 15-20 times a game in the postseason. Nice coaching Bud. If Middleton can stay relatively healthy he's going to have more 30pt games than ever this season sitting on the perimeter and knocking down open shots.

Our offense has been terrible. We just added the 2nd best offensive player in the NBA to Giannis and the leagues smoothest shooter, while removing the leagues 2nd worst offensive player in the postseason. The defensive hit we take will be far less than the offensive improvement. We might give up 6-8 more ppg but we're scoring at least 10-12 more a game.

Boston got worse. They've lost their identity and will have to rebuild both the offense and defense. They have no depth, we do.
-Smart +Jrue is a downgrade at this point. -Timelord +Porzingis is a defensive downgrade and will completely reshape their offense. Horford is going to have to fall off the cliff at some point. They will have a really good regular season but come playoff time, none of that matters. Jrue can't run an offense or hit a shot. Porzingis/Horford can't guard Giannis, especially not in a PnR with Dame.

If Dame, Khris, Giannis, Brook, Bobby, and Pat C are all healthy come playoff time we are getting that 2nd championship.

[Siefer]

Nothing gets me revved up like year 11 of folks disrespecting Midds. Don't forget, the man ended a whole posting career.

[Shaffty]

yeah really shoulda kept this guy around

Read on Twitter

[Daver]

Midds 24ppg on great efficiency the last time he played = not a good basketball player anymore

Jrue awful efficiency while giving up like 40ppg to Butler = guy the Bucks should have kept who now makes the Celtics favorites

Last two games he went 14-36 from the field, was a big part of both 4th quarter meltdowns, and a complete turnstile on defense.

Nobody covered themselves in glory in that series, but he wasn’t good.

Midds has maybe one bad game out of five against the Heat. Game 4 4-12 14 points 8 assist 6 boards 51TS% +5 (best on the team)

For comparison, Jrue game 4 6-19 14 points 4 assists 7 boards -2 while being the main defender on the guy who put up 56 points.

Midds game 5 was 10-24 but also put up 33 points on a 59TS%. Midds in game five was not the issue. Bud allowing them to go away from Midds to let Giannis and Midds play hot potato at the top of the key was the issue.

I will give Jrue credit in game five for holding Jimmy to 42 points. Perhaps if there had been a game six he might have gotten him into the 30s, but we’ll never know because Jrue missed a clutch free throw that allowed Jimmy to tie the game with a two instead of the Heat needing a 3 with 1 second left.

Comeon now thats enough we will never know cause our fricking MVP went 10-23 from the line.Thats ehy we lost not because jrue missed a ft dudes getting to much blame now